Where has XH558 thread gone?

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IgnatiusJReilly
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by IgnatiusJReilly »

vulcan558 wrote:
JetMan wrote:When did VTTS say they were going to use recovered fuel? Speculation on this forum isn’t fact...

Do not think this was speculation. It could be on Dans podcast from the horses mouth.
Not got the time at present to search through the many Q&As. though I'm sure its been written down a few times.in the past.


I'm sure that I'd read that VTTS were using recovered fuel in a statement, as one of the hidden ways in which the airport was supporting XH558.
(there was something in there as well regarding airside passes, which I'm sure alluded to some sort of discount or flexibility on numbers or fees or something. That would seem to be b/s as well.)
If, as it seems they aren't, then it's just another chip away from any defence of choosing Doncaster for XH558's retirement.

If I can summon up the will, I'll have a search for the original statement
Eccentric, idealistic, and creative, sometimes to the point of delusion..

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tache3
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by tache3 »

IgnatiusJReilly wrote:I'm sure that I'd read that VTTS were using recovered fuel in a statement, as one of the hidden ways in which the airport was supporting XH558.
(there was something in there as well regarding airside passes, which I'm sure alluded to some sort of discount or flexibility on numbers or fees or something. That would seem to be b/s as well.) If, as it seems they aren't, then it's just another chip away from any defence of choosing Doncaster for XH558's retirement. If I can summon up the will, I'll have a search for the original statement


Please do. Because between your 'I'm sure' and 'would seem' and vulcan558's 'do not think' and 'could be' it would be nice to get some actual reported facts into this conversation.

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sooty655
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by sooty655 »

Southendnick wrote:With a CPO in order to get one the council must demonstrate that taking over the site is necessary and that there is a compelling case in the public interest, they can not just turn up with a stack of money and take over the site, owners also have the right of appeal against the order.

The costs can be very high as the council would have to pay the full value of the property, additional costs that might force relocation of people or companies and in some cases additional payments which can include both sides legal costs so that the owner who the order is against is not left out of any pocket.

All valid comments, but there are specifics about the Wellesbourne situation which may well make the process easier. Continued use of the site as a GA airfield with associated businesses until at least 2031 is included in the Council's Core Planning Strategy for the area, which has received all the required approvals. In this case the CPO is about protecting the present airfield businesses from eviction, so compensation for them doesn't apply.

I think it is fair to say there is a lot more optimism around both the airfield and XM655 than has been the case for some years.

IgnatiusJReilly
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by IgnatiusJReilly »

tache3 wrote:
IgnatiusJReilly wrote:I'm sure that I'd read that VTTS were using recovered fuel in a statement, as one of the hidden ways in which the airport was supporting XH558.
(there was something in there as well regarding airside passes, which I'm sure alluded to some sort of discount or flexibility on numbers or fees or something. That would seem to be b/s as well.) If, as it seems they aren't, then it's just another chip away from any defence of choosing Doncaster for XH558's retirement. If I can summon up the will, I'll have a search for the original statement


Please do. Because between your 'I'm sure' and 'would seem' and vulcan558's 'do not think' and 'could be' it would be nice to get some actual reported facts into this conversation.

What we really need is a weekly email from VTTS with news and believable facts about what they're doing, so that we wouldn't be sat here delving through the remarkably thin stack of actual information that they've actually provided, trying to answer trivia questions that really just go to prove once again what a massive balls up they've made of this whole debacle.
Eccentric, idealistic, and creative, sometimes to the point of delusion..

JetMan
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by JetMan »

IgnatiusJReilly wrote:
tache3 wrote:
IgnatiusJReilly wrote:I'm sure that I'd read that VTTS were using recovered fuel in a statement, as one of the hidden ways in which the airport was supporting XH558.
(there was something in there as well regarding airside passes, which I'm sure alluded to some sort of discount or flexibility on numbers or fees or something. That would seem to be b/s as well.) If, as it seems they aren't, then it's just another chip away from any defence of choosing Doncaster for XH558's retirement. If I can summon up the will, I'll have a search for the original statement


Please do. Because between your 'I'm sure' and 'would seem' and vulcan558's 'do not think' and 'could be' it would be nice to get some actual reported facts into this conversation.

What we really need is a weekly email from VTTS with news and believable facts about what they're doing, so that we wouldn't be sat here delving through the remarkably thin stack of actual information that they've actually provided, trying to answer trivia questions that really just go to prove once again what a massive balls up they've made of this whole debacle.


What would you rather happen though? VTTS day exactly what’s going on and risk putting commercial in confidence information public putting the hangar in jeopardy; A blanket “Things are happening but we can’t tell you anything” every week until something happens; or news goes out as and when it is feasible to do it? It’s hard for us as the public to just have to sit here waiting while the aircraft is sat outside, but the trust still have 70+ years on the HLF grant where they are contracted to maintain the aircraft in working order.

As The old saying goes “No news is good news”, let’s hope it is true in this case...

vulcan558
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by vulcan558 »

Whats wrong with a large public intrest to do with any comercial intrests,
It should be a open book, Its not like some industrial espionage.
Or is it some under hand shenanigans and being careful, because they are being scrutinised so much.

A lot of people are digging deep into whats going on and they know it.
It will be very intresting who the real comercial partners are.

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MicrolightDriver
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by MicrolightDriver »

IgnatiusJReilly wrote:
tache3 wrote:
IgnatiusJReilly wrote:I'm sure that I'd read that VTTS were using recovered fuel in a statement, as one of the hidden ways in which the airport was supporting XH558.
(there was something in there as well regarding airside passes, which I'm sure alluded to some sort of discount or flexibility on numbers or fees or something. That would seem to be b/s as well.) If, as it seems they aren't, then it's just another chip away from any defence of choosing Doncaster for XH558's retirement. If I can summon up the will, I'll have a search for the original statement


Please do. Because between your 'I'm sure' and 'would seem' and vulcan558's 'do not think' and 'could be' it would be nice to get some actual reported facts into this conversation.

What we really need is a weekly email from VTTS with news and believable facts about what they're doing, so that we wouldn't be sat here delving through the remarkably thin stack of actual information that they've actually provided, trying to answer trivia questions that really just go to prove once again what a massive balls up they've made of this whole debacle.


OK, so you can't find the piece you reckon to have 'read' about VTTS using waste fuel....and so that's their fault too!? :roll:

I don't remember anything being said about it to be honest, which isn't to say it didn't happen, but it does seem strange that none of us can remember the yelling on here about 'They're using waste fuel and sabotaging the prospect of a ferry flight" etc etc that would have surely followed such news?

Berf
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Berf »

Don't follow this much now as it it so boring but I do remember some talk about the use of 'waste fuel.'

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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

Nearly three years on from the final flight, anyone care to point out what benefit the public have got for their donations over that time? Other than wages and redundancy pay-outs, what exactly HAS the money been spent on? It sure as hell hasn't been revealed in the "news" (sic) letters.

The whole sorry saga desperately needs to come to a close. A hangar will never be built, and even if by some miracle it was, how on earth is one festering, non-unique former aeroplane in a shed next to a ****-farm going to keep the money rolling in (no pun intended)? I'm not including the Canberra in this, as previous appeals have shown that the general public don't give two stuffs about it.

Doncaster was an appalling decision, made for selfish reasons by those at the top - that much was blatantly clear from day one. Three years on any chance of rectifying it has long passed. There's not a cat in hell's chance a ferry flight would ever be sanctioned now, and a road move would be prohibitively expensive and would in all reality leave the aircraft ruined as a runner.

Just stop and think - nearly three years on, there are STILL people making money out of this.

Pleming and those still clinging on to power MUST resign, the Trust MUST be wound up and the aeroplane should be left to see out its days under the stewardship of volunteers. And when the airport decide enough's enough, at least save the cockpit for a museum somewhere, as much a monument to stubbornness, avarice and arrogance as to those who served during the Cold War itself.

MiG_Eater
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by MiG_Eater »

Dan, has it really been proved that the public don't care about the Canberra? Maybe there was a campaign I didn't know about, but I simply won't donate to that organisation when they're still involved with the Vulcan and I think many others feel the same. If they had a separate fund purely for the Canberra that I was somehow convinced would go directly to it, i'd donate regularly and I think many others would too.

No question, it was stupid to buy 163 when 134 was available and in flying condition - but I think there is a way of running a Canberra in flying condition and recouping some, if not all, the costs.

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HeyfordDave111
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by HeyfordDave111 »

Buying 134 might, just might, have helped the group with their profile and fund raising for 134 and 558 at airshows.

not sure prolonged exposure outside is good for any airframe, let alone one you want to return to fly again.
i imagine, but am willing to be proved otherwise, that the cash counter on exactly how much it will take to return the canberra to flight goes up incrementally every minute. it certainly wont be a fixed cost

So if they do get a hagar built, then its more than likely 163 and 558 will become hangar queens, with a very rare run rate along Doncasters runway.

i just cannot see an income stream for the upkeep of a hangar, based on 2 airframes and a third loaner (if the swifts owner decides, rather foolishly, to keep it with them, rather than loaning it to a museum where people might just get a chance to see it, as its been out of view for an awful long time now.

Doncaster museum might want to ramp up their advertising, and push VTTS into the shade with their collection, as they do rightfully deserve to carry on succeeding.

I did not renew my newsletter to VTTS simply because it gave me a break from all the sillyness i perceive to be going on with no progress. I seem to remember planning permission being granted based on a resubmitted application, and i seem to remember them saying they will be in it this year. Well its July 2018 now, and i dont see any sod cutting going on.

So that everyone can get their facts straight on this, and hopefully cut out any room for confusion and misinterpretation, can i suggest we build a timeline on here, with all the 'facts' published in the VTTS newsletter since 2 years befroe the end of flight?

yes it might take a bit of doing but i'm sure its possible.
I suggest in date order.... a relevant bullet point.... for example........... and its only an example and not fact.....

July 20th 2014.... 558 to get a new home paid for by having sponsored donkey rides on blackpool beach!
August 26th 2015..... 558 to go eco friendly by conversion to methane so that it can use free gases given off by sewage farm at Doncaster.

Only real ones mind, not like mine above, but it would, in 1 swoop, tell the whole story from VTTS so far.

From that we can all chat here without winding anyone else up and fraying the nerves of the UKAR staff more than has been done recently.

Thoughts?
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GertrudetheMerciless
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

MiG_Eater wrote:Dan, has it really been proved that the public don't care about the Canberra?


Do the majority of the Trust’s core previous supporters even know what the Canberra is or that WK163 even exists?

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Brevet Cable
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Brevet Cable »

Depends what you mean by 'core previous supporters'.
If it's the former VTTS Club members, then they should do.

The problem for the Trust is that many of those former Club members openly stated that when XH558 ceased flying they'd stop donating & would be unlikely to donate towards another aircraft project.
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GertrudetheMerciless
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

Brevet Cable wrote:Depends what you mean by 'core previous supporters'.
If it's the former VTTS Club members, then they should do.

The problem for the Trust is that many of those former Club members openly stated that when XH558 ceased flying they'd stop donating & would be unlikely to donate towards another aircraft project.


Joe Public. Those outside the aviation enthusiast community perhaps.

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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

GertrudetheMerciless wrote:
MiG_Eater wrote:Dan, has it really been proved that the public don't care about the Canberra?


Do the majority of the Trust’s core previous supporters even know what the Canberra is or that WK163 even exists?


I'd not trust the bulk of the core support to know what day of the week it was.

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sooty655
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by sooty655 »

I see the latest VTTST "news" email is pushing the sell-off of the Vulcan spares stock as "collectables" again. Don't know how much they take over-the-counter at their stores open days, but their ebay sales total for the first half of this year is around £3500, which hardly seems enough to pay the overheads.

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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

sooty655 wrote:I see the latest VTTST "news" email is pushing the sell-off of the Vulcan spares stock as "collectables" again. Don't know how much they take over-the-counter at their stores open days, but their ebay sales total for the first half of this year is around £3500, which hardly seems enough to pay the overheads.


Don't forget the tat they sell at their online store too. The one they keep people on wages to staff...

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sooty655
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by sooty655 »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:
sooty655 wrote:I see the latest VTTST "news" email is pushing the sell-off of the Vulcan spares stock as "collectables" again. Don't know how much they take over-the-counter at their stores open days, but their ebay sales total for the first half of this year is around £3500, which hardly seems enough to pay the overheads.


Don't forget the tat they sell at their online store too. The one they keep people on wages to staff...

I believe there are wages to pay at the spares sales as well, although the open days use volunteers.

Reds Rolling
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Reds Rolling »

Yawn, same old boring ****, different day! :tumbleweed:

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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

Reds Rolling wrote:Yawn, same old boring ****, different day! :tumbleweed:


Well, perhaps if the "Bisto Kids" like yourself were a little more forthcoming with actual hard facts in your "newsletters" there might be a little more substance in this thread...

When was the last solid update we had on ANY progress being made?

ExVulcanGC
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by ExVulcanGC »

According to who ever, from VTST, was speaking to Linc's FM at the Lincolnshire Show on the morning of the 20th June, he said there was going to be some news soon, interesting what their definition is of 'soon'.

Did not recognise anyone on the stall they had, so stayed away, only saw a few people visit, again interesting to know what their view of the show was from a sales and interest perspective.

vulcan558
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by vulcan558 »

How busy was the Vulcan stall at Cosfords show and was it busy.
The news soon comment from the vtts as been spouted since the doomsday book.

Xm657
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Xm657 »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:Nearly three years on from the final flight, anyone care to point out what benefit the public have got for their donations over that time? Other than wages and redundancy pay-outs, what exactly HAS the money been spent on? It sure as hell hasn't been revealed in the "news" (sic) letters.

The whole sorry saga desperately needs to come to a close. A hangar will never be built, and even if by some miracle it was, how on earth is one festering, non-unique former aeroplane in a shed next to a ****-farm going to keep the money rolling in (no pun intended)? I'm not including the Canberra in this, as previous appeals have shown that the general public don't give two stuffs about it.

Doncaster was an appalling decision, made for selfish reasons by those at the top - that much was blatantly clear from day one. Three years on any chance of rectifying it has long passed. There's not a cat in hell's chance a ferry flight would ever be sanctioned now, and a road move would be prohibitively expensive and would in all reality leave the aircraft ruined as a runner.

Just stop and think - nearly three years on, there are STILL people making money out of this.

Pleming and those still clinging on to power MUST resign, the Trust MUST be wound up and the aeroplane should be left to see out its days under the stewardship of volunteers. And when the airport decide enough's enough, at least save the cockpit for a museum somewhere, as much a monument to stubbornness, avarice and arrogance as to those who served during the Cold War itself.


Dan is sometimes criticised for exaggeration, but this is absolutely spot on, I really can't see how anyone in their right might can argue with this summary of the situation. Sometimes it is easy to see mistakes in hindsight, but in this case almost everyone knew it was a mistake as soon as Mr Pleming announced his decision on the retirement plans. What an absolute tragedy after achieving what was almost impossible, flying a Vulcan in civilian hands, to have thrown it all away at the end. I just hope 558 can stay in one piece for a few more years.

Reds Rolling
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Reds Rolling »

Whether you think it's spot on or not, it's already been done to death years ago, and is just another lame attempt at getting the hard of thinking frothing at the mouth.

Nothing new ever gets said and frankly I can't understand why people even care anymore.

Anyway, must go as I've got a train to catch; choo, choo! :yahoo:

borismorris
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by borismorris »

Reds Rolling wrote:Whether you think it's spot on or not, it's already been done to death years ago, and is just another lame attempt at getting the hard of thinking frothing at the mouth.

Nothing new ever gets said and frankly I can't understand why people even care anymore.

Anyway, must go as I've got a train to catch; choo, choo! :yahoo:

More chance of seeing a Flying Scotsman than a taxying vulcan :biggrin:

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