Where has XH558 thread gone?

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pbeardmore
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by pbeardmore »

I wonder in time whether the full story of whats gone on within the charity over the last couple of years will come out? Has there been genuine debate within the group about the way forward? Has their been "delusional group think" concerning the future? Is there a culture where decisions at the very top are not questioned?
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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

Reds Rolling wrote:
Nothing new ever gets said



Perhaps if Bob-a-job and his mates were a little more forthcoming with information and actual progress reports there'd be a lot less repetition of the few hard facts that we currently have in the public domain, namely that the "People's" (sic) Aircraft was dumped at Doncaster without public consultation and with the flimsiest of business plans, with marginally more than zero chance of ever leaving in one piece, and three years down the line a small number of people continue to earn money from it despite it now being a virtual derelict out in the open, inaccessible to the people who fund it except on the rare occasions when a three-figure fee will buy you access.

Did I miss anything? Feel free to correct me on any of those points if I am wrong or "exaggerating".

MiG_Eater
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by MiG_Eater »

I think everyone accepts that Doncaster is a horrible place to keep 558, but do we know if there was a will from the powers at be at Bruntingthorpe to keep the aircraft there?

I am clutching at straws but i'm always trying to find some good reason that Bruntingthorpe was passed by.

vulcan558
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by vulcan558 »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:
Reds Rolling wrote:
Nothing new ever gets said



Perhaps if Bob-a-job and his mates were a little more forthcoming with information and actual progress reports there'd be a lot less repetition of the few hard facts that we currently have in the public domain, namely that the "People's" (sic) Aircraft was dumped at Doncaster without public consultation and with the flimsiest of business plans, with marginally more than zero chance of ever leaving in one piece, and three years down the line a small number of people continue to earn money from it despite it now being a virtual derelict out in the open, inaccessible to the people who fund it except on the rare occasions when a three-figure fee will buy you access.

Did I miss anything? Feel free to correct me on any of those points if I am wrong or "exaggerating".


The amount of money raised and wasted over the past 3 years is shocking.
Any one want to put a figure on it.

Like Dan said, if when it landed it was then looked after like in the past on a volunteer bases.
Then a lot of monies raised would now be a very nice pot.

There is no way on earth that the workload on a single aircraft sitting in a corner of an airfield justifies the staff and wages per the hours they work.

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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

vulcan558 wrote:Like Dan said, if when it landed it was then looked after like in the past on a volunteer bases.
Then a lot of monies raised would now be a very nice pot.

There is no way on earth that the workload on a single aircraft sitting in a corner of an airfield justifies the staff and wages per the hours they work.


Exactly this. How much of the money raised over the last three years has gone towards actually financing the "announcement very soon" hangar? How much could have gone towards it had wages and redundancies not been first in the queue?

I'd also add, how aware are the simpletons who still donate that their money first goes into paying overheads before a penny gets to the aeroplane or the hangar plan?

IgnatiusJReilly
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by IgnatiusJReilly »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:I'd also add, how aware are the simpletons who still donate that their money first goes into paying overheads before a penny gets to the aeroplane or the hangar plan?

Two minutes on the Facebook feed will tell you that a lot of them think it's still flying and even more, (especially those who paid for their names to be memorialised in size 6 font on a sticky label), believe that it's open for visitors.
Eccentric, idealistic, and creative, sometimes to the point of delusion..

IgnatiusJReilly
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by IgnatiusJReilly »

MicrolightDriver wrote:OK, so you can't find the piece you reckon to have 'read' about VTTS using waste fuel....and so that's their fault too!? :roll:


My point was that since day 1, actual, real, believable facts from VTTS are next to non-existent.
This whole thread is a testament to the guesswork and supposition and piecing together of partial facts and rumours in the absence of real information. Even on the very rare occasion that they have issued some sort of update, the language used has always been ambiguous and subsequently found to be less than entirely precise.
We never actually really know what has gone on.
How many versions of what went on with the eviction from hangar 3 have we heard and whose account do we believe?
I still have no idea who the trust actually employs and what they do for their money. Who is a contractor, who isn't, who is on a zero hours contract or retainer, who works for a 3rd party that is also owned by a director, who works for the trust but is sub contracted out to someone else. It goes on and on.
We have no idea what the monthly costs are - what is gifted by the airport, what isn't.
I don't even know what buildings they're in any more.
All this from a charity, funded entirely by public donation.
They're not involved in highly secret government work. Their conviction that everything they do has to be shrouded in commercial sensitivity is quite frankly b/s. If they're negotiating with someone to fund the hangar, then they can and should say so. They don't need to name them.
If they're close to an agreement, they could and should say so. If they aren't - they should say so.
Why aren't the minutes from the board and trustees meetings published? Other charities do.
If there's only real news sufficient for a monthly newsletter then fine, reduce the frequency. If their priority is just to spam post their supporters in the hope of selling a mug, then fine, but just be up front and honest about it.
In the meantime, the fact that anyone still gives a monkeys about this says everything about their interest in the airframe and nothing about VTTS as an organisation.
Eccentric, idealistic, and creative, sometimes to the point of delusion..

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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

IgnatiusJReilly wrote:
MicrolightDriver wrote:OK, so you can't find the piece you reckon to have 'read' about VTTS using waste fuel....and so that's their fault too!? :roll:


My point was that since day 1, actual, real, believable facts from VTTS are next to non-existent.
This whole thread is a testament to the guesswork and supposition and piecing together of partial facts and rumours in the absence of real information. Even on the very rare occasion that they have issued some sort of update, the language used has always been ambiguous and subsequently found to be less than entirely precise.
We never actually really know what has gone on.
How many versions of what went on with the eviction from hangar 3 have we heard and whose account do we believe?
I still have no idea who the trust actually employs and what they do for their money. Who is a contractor, who isn't, who is on a zero hours contract or retainer, who works for a 3rd party that is also owned by a director, who works for the trust but is sub contracted out to someone else. It goes on and on.
We have no idea what the monthly costs are - what is gifted by the airport, what isn't.
I don't even know what buildings they're in any more.
All this from a charity, funded entirely by public donation.
They're not involved in highly secret government work. Their conviction that everything they do has to be shrouded in commercial sensitivity is quite frankly b/s. If they're negotiating with someone to fund the hangar, then they can and should say so. They don't need to name them.
If they're close to an agreement, they could and should say so. If they aren't - they should say so.
Why aren't the minutes from the board and trustees meetings published? Other charities do.
If there's only real news sufficient for a monthly newsletter then fine, reduce the frequency. If their priority is just to spam post their supporters in the hope of selling a mug, then fine, but just be up front and honest about it.
In the meantime, the fact that anyone still gives a monkeys about this says everything about their interest in the airframe and nothing about VTTS as an organisation.


Well, let's ask the question(s). XR219 was online here earlier today, so the Trust are monitoring the thread. So:

1. As of this morning, how many people are employed by VTST (or whatever they're called now)?
2. How many of those are full-time, part-time, freelance or on retainers?
3. How many contractors and consultants are currently being used by VTST?
4. If there are contractors/consultants on-board, are any of them directly linked to current/former VTST staff or their families?

Simple enough questions, no need for names or size of salaries - let's see if the answers will be forthcoming. This sorry saga's been a one-way street for too long, if the Trust wants people to give, it needs to give back - and that starts with transparency.

Xm657
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Xm657 »

MiG_Eater wrote:I think everyone accepts that Doncaster is a horrible place to keep 558, but do we know if there was a will from the powers at be at Bruntingthorpe to keep the aircraft there?

I am clutching at straws but i'm always trying to find some good reason that Bruntingthorpe was passed by.


Yes there most definitely was. David Walton wanted 558 back and there was even talk of the Walton's building a hangar for 558 and Victor XM715 to be together. It was Pleming and the VTTS who had better ideas and refused to let her go to Bruntingthorpe. To be fair to them: at the time, the plan was to fly other classic jets and build the ETNA centre, which suited Doncaster. There was also the fear that Bruntingthorpe and the good will of the Walton's might not be there in 80 years time - the timespan required by the HLF.

Its really no use crying over spilt milk now though or everyone saying "I told you so". What really hacks people off though, is that the people who made the bad decisions are all still in place and don't seem to be learning from their mistakes. If this was a company, someone would have been fired by now. Problem appears to be there would be nobody to replace the VTST or its officials and no way to fix the problem anyway. She's stuck in the wrong place and that's it. Its a shame her dwindling pool of supporters are milked for cash, none of which has any benefit for her future.

An absolute mess that so easily could have been avoided were it not for egos and greed in the lead up to 2015.

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pbeardmore
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by pbeardmore »

Large companies have share holder meetings where the board have to answer questions etc , charities have no such process. It's the trustees that are meant to have oversite but it's all kept under wraps. Charity law in the UK needs updating IMHO. There is a real lack of accountability.
“The best computer is a man, and it’s the only one that can be mass-produced by unskilled labour.”

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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

The questions have been up for 24 hours. At least one Trustee has been online in that time, and still no answer to such simple questions.

The lack of transparency is as predictable as it is obscene. An untouchable, unaccountable cabal who seem determined to cling on to the bitterest of ends.

Never mind, I'm sure it'll be in tonight's newsletter, between the adverts for £100 engine runs and the latest jumble sale of spare parts collected by David Walton in good faith to ensure XH558 was a runner for many decades to come.

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sooty655
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by sooty655 »

I realise this thread is for XH55 news, but since there hasn't been any for so long, I thought a bit of good news about XM655 might be appropriate. :smile: :smile: :smile:

https://www.stratford.gov.uk/news/press.cfm/current/1/item/136611

Reds Rolling
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Reds Rolling »

sooty655 wrote:I realise this thread is for XH55 news, but since there hasn't been any for so long, I thought a bit of good news about XM655 might be appropriate. :smile: :smile: :smile:

https://www.stratford.gov.uk/news/press.cfm/current/1/item/136611

Bloody hell, someone posts something remotely interesting in the thread! :clap:

vulcan558
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by vulcan558 »

Reds Rolling wrote:
sooty655 wrote:I realise this thread is for XH55 news, but since there hasn't been any for so long, I thought a bit of good news about XM655 might be appropriate. :smile: :smile: :smile:

https://www.stratford.gov.uk/news/press.cfm/current/1/item/136611

Bloody hell, someone posts something remotely interesting in the thread! :clap:

Old news me old cocker. Was posted days ago. Do keep up.

Reds Rolling
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Reds Rolling »

vulcan558 wrote:
Reds Rolling wrote:
sooty655 wrote:I realise this thread is for XH55 news, but since there hasn't been any for so long, I thought a bit of good news about XM655 might be appropriate. :smile: :smile: :smile:

https://www.stratford.gov.uk/news/press.cfm/current/1/item/136611

Bloody hell, someone posts something remotely interesting in the thread! :clap:

Old news me old cocker. Was posted days ago. Do keep up.

So you're saying that this news is just a repeat of what has already been said earlier? Well it's in the right thread then! :lol:

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sooty655
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by sooty655 »

vulcan558 wrote:
Reds Rolling wrote:
sooty655 wrote:I realise this thread is for XH55 news, but since there hasn't been any for so long, I thought a bit of good news about XM655 might be appropriate. :smile: :smile: :smile:

https://www.stratford.gov.uk/news/press.cfm/current/1/item/136611

Bloody hell, someone posts something remotely interesting in the thread! :clap:

Old news me old cocker. Was posted days ago. Do keep up.

Actually, the fact it was supposedly happening was posted days ago. I thought there might be some interest in a press release from the council themselves. If not, feel free to ignore it. :tongue:

106500
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by 106500 »

sooty655 wrote:
vulcan558 wrote:
Reds Rolling wrote:
sooty655 wrote:I realise this thread is for XH55 news, but since there hasn't been any for so long, I thought a bit of good news about XM655 might be appropriate. :smile: :smile: :smile:

https://www.stratford.gov.uk/news/press.cfm/current/1/item/136611

Bloody hell, someone posts something remotely interesting in the thread! :clap:

Old news me old cocker. Was posted days ago. Do keep up.

Actually, the fact it was supposedly happening was posted days ago. I thought there might be some interest in a press release from the council themselves. If not, feel free to ignore it. :tongue:


While I think this is great news and I wish every success to the council in their action, I worry about an adversarial position being reached whereby the airfield owners become vindictive through their get rich quick plans being frustrated. Ultimately this might exceed merely banning taxi runs to a more serious threat to the airframe? Lets hope not!

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sooty655
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by sooty655 »

106500 wrote:While I think this is great news and I wish every success to the council in their action, I worry about an adversarial position being reached whereby the airfield owners become vindictive through their get rich quick plans being frustrated. Ultimately this might exceed merely banning taxi runs to a more serious threat to the airframe? Lets hope not!

There are very significant differences between the ownership of the airframe and the ownership of the airfield land, which make your understandable concerns highly unlikely.

andy759
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by andy759 »

Code: Select all

[code][/code]
borismorris wrote:
Reds Rolling wrote:Whether you think it's spot on or not, it's already been done to death years ago, and is just another lame attempt at getting the hard of thinking frothing at the mouth.

Nothing new ever gets said and frankly I can't understand why people even care anymore.

Anyway, must go as I've got a train to catch; choo, choo! :yahoo:

More chance of seeing a Flying Scotsman than a taxying vulcan :biggrin:


yep just the other weekend , just a stones throw away from 558 as she went past

ImageFlying Scotsman by andy 759, on Flickr

andy

reheat module
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by reheat module »

^^^^^^^^^^^
Hope you paid your £100 to stand that close and hear the roar...
Canon systems

ExVulcanGC
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by ExVulcanGC »

Beside these un-answered questions:

1. As of this morning, how many people are employed by VTST (or whatever they're called now)?
2. How many of those are full-time, part-time, freelance or on retainers?
3. How many contractors and consultants are currently being used by VTST?
4. If there are contractors/consultants on-board, are any of them directly linked to current/former VTST staff or their families?

I think there are a few more that would be of interest to a lot of people:

1. Have the runs to date proved profitable after costs and wages (for those that still get paid) have been removed?
2. Have the sales of spares and goods proved profitable after costs and wages (for those that still get paid) have been removed?
3. From the profits, if any, how much money is now is available to help house and build a valuable future for XH558?
4. What money is coming in for returning the Canberra to the sky and how much is left in the existing pot, to achieve that aim, if there is still money around for this project how is it being used and who will do the work and where?
5. What is happening to the Swift, is there any financial responsibilities for VTST, if so where is the money coming from and how is it being used?

Alanko
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Alanko »

Flying Scotsman should have gone to Brunty.

IgnatiusJReilly
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by IgnatiusJReilly »

Alanko wrote:Flying Scotsman should have gone to Brunty.

More importantly, is it still flying and when can we visit it?
Eccentric, idealistic, and creative, sometimes to the point of delusion..

bernarde
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by bernarde »

ExVulcanGC wrote:Beside these un-answered questions:

1. As of this morning, how many people are employed by VTST (or whatever they're called now)?
2. How many of those are full-time, part-time, freelance or on retainers?
3. How many contractors and consultants are currently being used by VTST?
4. If there are contractors/consultants on-board, are any of them directly linked to current/former VTST staff or their families?

I think there are a few more that would be of interest to a lot of people:

1. Have the runs to date proved profitable after costs and wages (for those that still get paid) have been removed?
2. Have the sales of spares and goods proved profitable after costs and wages (for those that still get paid) have been removed?
3. From the profits, if any, how much money is now is available to help house and build a valuable future for XH558?
4. What money is coming in for returning the Canberra to the sky and how much is left in the existing pot, to achieve that aim, if there is still money around for this project how is it being used and who will do the work and where?
5. What is happening to the Swift, is there any financial responsibilities for VTST, if so where is the money coming from and how is it being used?


Great questions which will fall on deaf and unwilling ears sadly.

vulcan558
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by vulcan558 »

bernarde wrote:
ExVulcanGC wrote:Beside these un-answered questions:

1. As of this morning, how many people are employed by VTST (or whatever they're called now)?
2. How many of those are full-time, part-time, freelance or on retainers?
3. How many contractors and consultants are currently being used by VTST?
4. If there are contractors/consultants on-board, are any of them directly linked to current/former VTST staff or their families?

I think there are a few more that would be of interest to a lot of people:

1. Have the runs to date proved profitable after costs and wages (for those that still get paid) have been removed?
2. Have the sales of spares and goods proved profitable after costs and wages (for those that still get paid) have been removed?
3. From the profits, if any, how much money is now is available to help house and build a valuable future for XH558?

4. What money is coming in for returning the Canberra to the sky and how much is left in the existing pot, to achieve that aim, if there is still money around for this project how is it being used and who will do the work and where?
5. What is happening to the Swift, is there any financial responsibilities for VTST, if so where is the money coming from and how is it being used?


Great questions which will fall on deaf and unwilling ears sadly.



It will also show the so called vtts defenders that seem to jump on any comment, actually no sweet F.A.
And there credibility on this subject is worth nothing.

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