Where has XH558 thread gone?

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby vulcan558 on Thu 23 Aug 2018, 9:34 pm

There was 448 very negatives posts on the vtts raffle site last week, there is only about 20 comments on there now,
So they will try and crush any negative comments.
Just like they are doing allnover the place.
Even on this topic they are trying to get it locked or taken down just like the last thread that got deleted.

They seem to not want to tell the truth when the public ask questions. Maybe they do not know the answers.
Maybe they have nothing to do with the trust.


Or these are just a group of trollers fishing,
for there is no evidence that these people have anything too do with the trust, or just trollers,
vulcan558

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby IgnatiusJReilly on Thu 23 Aug 2018, 10:09 pm

vulcan558 wrote:There was 448 very negatives posts on the vtts raffle site last week, there is only about 20 comments on there now,
So they will try and crush any negative comments.
Just like they are doing allnover the place.
Even on this topic they are trying to get it locked or taken down just like the last thread that got deleted.


Just be aware that there seems to be several VTTS raffle advert threads running. Some days I get the advert which I've commented on, come up. Other days, I get another version. The thread my comments have been posted on are still there. I'm not saying comments haven't been deleted, but it may be that you're looking in the wrong place.

I could have course be completely wrong and VTTS are indeed waging a propaganda campaign and applying heavy censorship... But just to say that there may be another more innocent explanation.

But yes, as someone else mentioned, it does seem bizarre, the level of VTTS advertising that hits my feed. I do of course click on it each time, just to spite the trust, which may explain some of the 30k they spent last year. :tongue2:
Eccentric, idealistic, and creative, sometimes to the point of delusion..
IgnatiusJReilly

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby HeyfordDave111 on Fri 24 Aug 2018, 8:15 am

Not sure how this web site is set up, but most bespoke websites allow the owner the possibility to see the I.P. address of the poster.

Would this not remove the need for this part of the debate of 'who is / who isn't' once and for all?

Not sure they would need outing, merely that they could be informed (if 'they' exist on this site) that the modernators know who they are, and will be keeping an eye on their posts due to the secretive nature of their real identitiy?

Just a thought.
Got to love Russianhardware
HeyfordDave111

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Domvickery on Fri 24 Aug 2018, 8:42 am

JetMan wrote:How long until we see “where has the ‘where has the XH558 thread gone’ thread gone?” on the forum board....

Crazy!


Not very long if you lot carry on
Inventor of the baguette scale
Domvickery
UKAR Staff

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Fri 24 Aug 2018, 10:20 am

Interesting that VTTS seem rather more concerned with comments on a message board than actually presenting hard facts to the public.

In the case of Neverfuel, the back story just does not add up. From having a passing interest after his son had a hangar visit to suddenly having strong and clearly well-sourced opinions on the ins-and-outs at Doncaster, always with a 100% positive spin.

I would welcome UKAR staff monitoring the IP activity of the suspected accounts - or if indeed there are VTTS employees hidden in plain sight, to come clean and re-register under their own names.

It would be quite a scandal if it were revealed that paid employees of a charity were secretly trolling the public behind fake usernames.

At least Steve Liddle has the cojoñes to speak as himself, however sparse his comments.
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Dan O'Hagan

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby jalfrezi on Fri 24 Aug 2018, 10:57 am

I've checked the IPs for the accounts in question and I see nothing particularly suspicious, they're all coming from completely different IP ranges and ISPs, however if someone wants to hide their tracks it's not exactly difficult to do, but would it really be worth it?

So without proper proof can we put an end to any accusations without hard evidence please, saying it doesn't add up isn't hard evidence in my books.
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jalfrezi
UKAR Staff

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby bernarde on Fri 24 Aug 2018, 4:46 pm

boff180 wrote:p.s. This post is not out of the blue, we have received complaints over the past day or so.


So that narrows it down to 2 people who have had a little cry. The problem is that UKAR is, and i know from personal experience, scared of VTTS as they flount the legal action flag and then things are deleted etc. We all know who neverfuel is, so why are you protecting Trotter and his army of imbeciles? :loser:

VTTS have threatened me, and you UKAR with legal action, atleast once that I know of for UKAR (hense the last thread was quickly locked and the truth deleted).. but i've been threatened 6 times now and replied "sure, see you in court", even providing my home address and phone number to them. Still waiting for my playdate with VTTS

They cant prosecute you for things which are true. :facepalm:
bernarde

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Marathon Milkshake on Sun 26 Aug 2018, 8:47 am

bernarde wrote:
They cant prosecute you for things which are true. :facepalm:


Thats why this thread will eventually be locked or deleted, not because its rubbish or a lot of arguing going on, but because we are so close to the truth, it makes them squirm :wall:
Those that matter, don't mind. Those that mind, don't matter
Marathon Milkshake

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Xm657 on Sun 26 Aug 2018, 9:22 am

jalfrezi wrote:I've checked the IPs for the accounts in question and I see nothing particularly suspicious, they're all coming from completely different IP ranges and ISPs, however if someone wants to hide their tracks it's not exactly difficult to do, but would it really be worth it?

So without proper proof can we put an end to any accusations without hard evidence please, saying it doesn't add up isn't hard evidence in my books.


Seems unlikely that everyone connected to the VttST would use the same intenet connection. More likely they they would look at this post from the comfort of their own homes or smart phones. So unlikely the IP addresses would resolve to Doncaster airport.

I'm still lost why accusing someone on here of being a member of the VttST is a legal matter. But if it causes a headache we should refrain from doing so. Maybe there are a handful of people in no way connected to the Trust who have registered on here and are 100% behind the plan. The important issue is 558 and ensuring VttST do the right thing by her. The people don't have much influence over this, but this thread is better than nothing in giving the people a voice.
Xm657

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby LN Strike Eagle on Sun 26 Aug 2018, 9:24 am

Marathon Milkshake wrote:
bernarde wrote:
They cant prosecute you for things which are true. :facepalm:


Thats why this thread will eventually be locked or deleted, not because its rubbish or a lot of arguing going on, but because we are so close to the truth, it makes them squirm :wall:

If/when we close this thread, it will be because we're bored of it going around in circles every few days, the same names insulting each other and the number of reported posts from those same people trying to get each other in trouble.

There has been no dialogue between UKAR and VTST since somewhere mid-2015, when the thing was still flying, so I can't speak for VTST, but on our side it will be because of the extraordinary levels of tedium this thread brings, and not "squirming".
"You really are an oafish philistine at times!"
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LN Strike Eagle
UKAR Staff

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Gonzo230 on Sun 26 Aug 2018, 10:35 am

I would support closing this thread, and any other 558-related thread, if only because it seems to bring out the worst in some people.

Mind you, I’d also really wish we could stop some here making passive-aggressive remarks about 558, the VTTST and the whole situation on other, completely unrelated threads as well.

One can dream.
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Gonzo230

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Skymonster on Sun 26 Aug 2018, 10:50 am

Despite the sometimes repetitive nature of the comments, this is the only place where people who have a passion for XH558 and want to see it safe can have their say and call VTTST to account - even if the Trust does not respond. It is also a very important archive of happenings along the rocky road to whatever the future holds for 558. Losing the topic would make it much hard to call to question the actions (or inactions) of the Trust when its ascertions about the future don't happen as it suggests.

The demise of the topic would play to the VTTST fanboys who would like nothing better, and despite the dislike some have of this thread it is still by far the most popular (in terms of it being read, and contributed to) and longest-livin on UKAR. So to the contrary of the wishes of those who would like to see it gone, it would be a tragedy if this topic was lost like the one was.
Skymonster

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Reds Rolling on Sun 26 Aug 2018, 6:23 pm

Xm657 wrote:There's a fresh crop of comments criticizing the use of funds and high wages, etc. If you're quick you might catch a glimpse before Red Rolling gets such "crazyness" deleted.

So do you have any actual proof I'm involved with VttS or have you just jumped on O Hagan's little bandwagon as well? :question:
I always took you to be a little more intelligent than some who frequent this thread, but maybe not!

Xm657 wrote:And if someone is to complain that they are being accused of being someone they are not, shouldn't they provide some proof to backup their complaint?

Only if the person doing the accusing actually has some proof in the first place. Why should the onus be on the person being accused to prove themselves innocent, when no factual evidence is given in the first place? :dunno:

Xm657 wrote:If someone wants to accuse me of being Robert Pleming I'd be quite flattered, but even if I didn't like the accusation I dont really see how I would have grounds to complain...

You might be flattered or not, either way you'd have the right to complain if someone associated your user account to him and spread unfounded rumours that you were him. See what I'm getting at here?

I don't actually recall any time where I've come out in favour of VttS! Sure, I've taken the **** out of people who seem to treat the Vulcan/VttS as the be all and end all in their lives, or pulled people up on stupid ideas, misinformation or just the sheer boring repetitiveness that this thread provides, but that doesn't automatically make me a VttS 'fanboy' in my book! I guess it's a case of your either with us or against us for most here, but that's not how I operate.

For what it's worth I'll state what I think. You either believe me or not, but if you want to point fingers at me, then you better be able to back up your claims.

Do I work/have ever worked for VttS.. No, I've only ever given them money through donations when it was flying.

Do I care about 558. Yes, but not so much now it's grounded. There's two other taxi capable Vulcans out there that are just as good, which is why it amazes me there's so much waffle about this one.

What about the VttS 'gravy train'. I don't really care because it's not my money funding them. If others want to donate then that's up to them and I really don't see the point in all the fuss. They don't seem to be doing anything illegal or operate any differently to many other charities tbh. If people are daft enough to keep giving them money then that's their prerogative.

£100 ground runs. :shock: People seem to like them and are happy to pay, so I don't really see what business it is of anyone else. The other Vulcans seem to offer better value when they do run, so there's a choice at least.

Should it have gone to Doncaster. They obviously had plans that have stalled for various reasons, but they might come to fruition, who knows. For me it's more a case of out of sight, out of mind and that includes Bruntingthorpe, so essentially I'm not that bothered where it's at. :grin:

As for the 'VttS want this thread shut' and 'UKAR are scared of VttS' paranoia. Bloody hell, what a load of tosh! :loser:
Reds Rolling

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Skymonster on Sun 26 Aug 2018, 7:00 pm

Reds Rolling wrote:As for the 'VttS want this thread shut' and 'UKAR are scared of VttS' paranoia. Bloody hell, what a load of tosh! :loser:

IMO you were doing pretty well up to that point Reds Rolling... But now the obvious question is: "How do you know that?"

Reds Rolling wrote:Do I care about 558. Yes, but not so much now it's grounded. There's two other taxi capable Vulcans out there that are just as good, which is why it amazes me there's so much waffle about this one.

I think there's an obvious answer to that issue too - it's because some people posting on here DO care about 558, and believe the entire affair could have been managed much better than VTTST has done / is doing.
Skymonster

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Reds Rolling on Sun 26 Aug 2018, 8:47 pm

Skymonster wrote:
Reds Rolling wrote:As for the 'VttS want this thread shut' and 'UKAR are scared of VttS' paranoia. Bloody hell, what a load of tosh! :loser:

IMO you were doing pretty well up to that point Reds Rolling... But now the obvious question is: "How do you know that?"

The mods have stated above, 'no dialogue with VttS since mid-2015...'. That doesn't sound like VttS are calling for the thread to be closed, and nor does it sound like UKAR are 'scared of VttS'. In fact as far as I know VttS aren't even directly involved in this latest bit of 'modding'; it's to do with accusations by some here of me being a covert VttS employee when there's no evidence that I am.

Reds Rolling wrote:Do I care about 558. Yes, but not so much now it's grounded. There's two other taxi capable Vulcans out there that are just as good, which is why it amazes me there's so much waffle about this one.

Skymonster wrote:I think there's an obvious answer to that issue too - it's because some people posting on here DO care about 558, and believe the entire affair could have been managed much better than VTTST has done / is doing.

We all care about old aircraft in some way or other, and of course people can give their opinions. The fact is though, that the same opinions and waffle just goes round and round in ever repetitive circles on this thread. It's clear that no-one here is going to, or are prepared to, do anything to change what has happened or is happening with 558, so I just don't understand the incessant need to go on and on like a stuck record. Like I say, there's two other Vulcan's out there that can taxi and do engine runs, so 558 isn't unique in that respect.
Reds Rolling

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby IgnatiusJReilly on Sun 26 Aug 2018, 11:06 pm

I can understand that for someone completely not interested, this topic may well seem tedious and repetitive and I can understand that dealing with petty 'he said / she said' squabbles will get boring pretty quickly, but really, doesn't this all come with the territory of operating a discussion board?
Repeatedly threatening to close the single most active thread on the board and the only space where these issues are being openly discussed, because it's not personally interesting enough or is a touch repetitive does seem a bit unnecessary.
Why not just hand it over to another, dedicated, moderator(s) if it's not something you want to be doing?
Eccentric, idealistic, and creative, sometimes to the point of delusion..
IgnatiusJReilly

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Xm657 on Mon 27 Aug 2018, 8:37 am

Much of it is repetitive RR but new things are discussed which I believe are important. The recent publication on the annual accounts is clearly something that should be scrutinised and discussed. This is a charity which raises a 7 figure sum each year under the misleading name Vulcan to the SKY. If nothing else this thread serves a purpose of informing potential contributors what actually happens to their money. I would like to think it might also allow the VttST to look at its self critically and challenge whether it does everything right.

However, since the accounts have been published, I doubt there will be anything more to discuss until something happens with the hangar or VttST goes bust - which ever comes first. So maybe we save the moderators by zipping it for now!!
Xm657

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby UK Airshow Review on Mon 27 Aug 2018, 9:05 pm

Dear UKAR,

The public restoration and operation of Avro Vulcan XH558 was one of the defining moments of the modern aviation era in Britain. The machine was enjoyed by millions in the UK for nearly a decade, and demonstrated to the world the excellence and professionalism of the UK's aviation industry, and UKAR has been following the story every step of the way. UKAR has been an unparalleled, unbiased, and dutiful message board for enthusiasts to chew the fat and discuss the news about the Vulcan, and vast amounts of information, good-humoured banter, and friendships were all made through this forum's discussion of all matters XH558. UK Airshow Review itself has written and spoken many-a-word about the machine, its owners and operators, including an outstanding Display Frequency Podcast at the start of 2017 that acted, to most, as an excellent full stop to the saga.

The fact remains however, that XH558 has been grounded for nearly three years, and yet this topic continues to trundle on, with less and less useful information, and more and more circular bitterness from the same few usernames being posted. Whilst the ongoing discussion may be intriguing to those few, it isn't for a great many others.

As a consequence, we consider that this thread has overstayed its welcome, and will be locked. The thread will remain in public view for posterity. There is no ulterior motive or secret back-room whispering with any other organisations. UKAR has not had direct contact with VTTS in any capacity since before XH558 flew to Doncaster for the last time. The reason that this thread will be locked is quite simple; those same few usernames have soured what was once an excellent part of UKAR. That part, once the pride of this forum, has become something of an embarrassment of late, and rather than allow that to continue indefinitely the staff team consider that locking the thread is best for UKAR.

The staff team will not tolerate any efforts to circumvent this measure by creating alternative XH558 posts or threads, and any such posts will be summarily deleted. If any genuine matters of interest or discussion regarding XH558 arise in the future, the Staff team shall consider allowing further XH558 discussion in this thread or starting another one on a case by case basis.

We recognise that this will be a blow to some, and good news to others. Ultimately, it is up to the staff team to make tough decisions such as this one.

Yours,

UKAR Staff
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UK Airshow Review
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