Where has XH558 thread gone?

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Neverfuel
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Neverfuel »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:Spent. As you are well aware. Spent, when better planning and cutting of jobs when flying ceased, would have removed the need to be paying them. No implication of any impropriety, but a clear observation that VTTS were maintaining a staff FAR too big for a one aeroplane museum which the public remain unable to regularly and affordably access. Whatever maths VTTS had done to calculate the size of staff required, the figures prove that they got it horribly wrong.

Now answer me a question, as you seem determined to make this a personal issue: What is your real identity?

Only fair that we all know who we are dealing with here. Same goes for "Reds Rolling".


My real identity - ex RAF technician - live in Doncaster, love XH558 and absolutely do NOT represent anyone but myself. Interested in making sure my youngest can have the opportunity of being a UK trained aeronautics engineer (his dream, not mine). My full details are below:

First Name: Neville
Surname: Erfuel
Address: REMOVED
Postcode: REMOVED
Home tel: 01302REMOVED
Mobile: 07REMOVED
Email: RESTRICTED
Mothers Maiden Name: Not Known
First Pets Name: Crumpet
Favourite Password: NOT ON YOUR NELLY

Neverfuel
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Neverfuel »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:Again, Neverfuel, thanks for the party political broadcast, now what is your name and connection to VTTS?

If you want to be credible, at least be prepared to reveal who you are so people might understand YOUR motives.

No connection Dan - just love my town, our Vulcan and really passionate about the truth, the whole truth and nothing......

Now maybe there is a clue in that?

Neverfuel
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Neverfuel »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:Again, Neverfuel, thanks for the party political broadcast, now what is your name and connection to VTTS?

If you want to be credible, at least be prepared to reveal who you are so people might understand YOUR motives.

Oh by the way - I've been silent for a month so people can gauge YOUR motives, and I'm going silent again so they can CONFIRM them.

Goodnight dear heart x

See you anon

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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

My motives? This isn't about me, it's about an aeroplane stranded at an airfield because of rank bad decision making and throwing good money after bad to prolong an enterprise which should have been wound up two years ago. But keep on making it about me, if it stops people discussing the actual issue, which is that VTTS have dug themselves into a hole at Doncaster, and the point at which they can no longer climb out of it appears to be coming fast.

That is the reality, Neverfuel.

I'm fed up of the constant sparring with you, Reds Rolling and the rest. I have my opinions, you have yours. Truce? And we'll see who turns out to have been right...

Neverfuel
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Neverfuel »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:My motives? This isn't about me, it's about an aeroplane stranded at an airfield because of rank bad decision making and throwing good money after bad to prolong an enterprise which should have been wound up two years ago. But keep on making it about me, if it stops people discussing the actual issue, which is that VTTS have dug themselves into a hole at Doncaster, and the point at which they can no longer climb out of it appears to be coming fast.

That is the reality, Neverfuel.

I'm fed up of the constant sparring with you, Reds Rolling and the rest. I have my opinions, you have yours. Truce? And we'll see who turns out to have been right...


Read your own posts Dan

"Constant sparring" - I've not been on here for a month - Reds seems a nice person, maybe it's your problem? Who are the "rest" that you are having trouble "sparring" with? It seems to me that most folks on here would just like some plain old HONEST, conversation - without any opinions, bluster or personal politics.

TRUCE? I have always made a point of letting "sleeping dogs lie". However, I'm not so sure whether I would let "lying dogs sleep".

"And we'll see who turns out to have been right"

That seems to be a very antagonistic comment for someone who is supposed to be looking at both sides of the equation (as an impartial aviation journalist) , you must have a crystal ball - please do tell us news from your oracle, before the next newsletter!
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vulcan558
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by vulcan558 »

Brevet Cable wrote:It's the turbojet equivalent of saying a company which refurbishes R-R Meteor engines can do Merlins for aviation use, or that you can swop-out a duff Merlin engine for a Meteor in a Spitfire. :biggrin:

Correct they are parts in the meteor that fit in a merlin, thou the CAA would say no if you wanted to use it in a flyer.
The same for the Olympus i would guess.

Skymonster
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Skymonster »

NAM Updater wrote:
MicrolightDriver wrote:Good newts that the planning permission has gone in .......

Hope they don't find any of those creatures, as it would slow things up on the environmental impact front! :whistle:


Prophetic, or insightful? Over on the VTTST forum

Just seen this on the Vulcan XH558's Facebook page.

"Just received the latest guardian news letter and I see that the proposed site for the new hangar has great crested newts won't that now cause significant problems getting planning permission?"

Reds Rolling
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Reds Rolling »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:I'm fed up of the constant sparring with you, Reds Rolling and the rest. I have my opinions, you have yours. Truce? And we'll see who turns out to have been right...

Of course you are fully entitled to your own opinions, but you don't have to act like UKAR's version of Piers Morgan to get them across. Likewise, perhaps not insulting people who have a differing opinion to you might also be a start, and not just in this thread.

As for who turns out to be right, well I haven't expressed any thought as to what the final outcome might be, and as I'm no longer donating to the project it's not something I'll lose sleep over.

Xm657
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Xm657 »

Oh I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I remember reading the VttST newsletter in about 2013 regarding how important making the right choice for 558's final resting place was. Yet the mistakes made are numerous, highly foreseeable and have enormous consequences. Let's recap the problems and mistakes which Doncaster and the Enta plan has brought over the obvious safe bet of landing her at Bruntingthorpe or similar:-

1. Final flight barred from public view
2. Full maintenance crew retained at enormous expense long after they were needed and other paid employees still retained when volunteers could be utilised
3. No mature project on where 558 would be located long term just a vague hope Enta might happen
4. No financial reserve built up to buy a hanger
5. Vast amounts of money wasted during 2015/6 with nothing to show for it
6. A Canberra bought with money they barely had, so now two airframes without a real home and further expense to look after them
7. No possibility of taxi runs due to concerns by the airport and access problems - this really should have been the first thing to check before selecting Doncaster
8. Having to store 558 outdoors due to lack of mature plans, with the bad PR that goes with it and deterioration of the airframes
9. Completely ignoring the plees to get a ferry flight out of there until it was too late anyway
10. And now after all these months the etopia site (next to the sewage works) has planning problems due to endangered wildlife.

I may have missed some things out but what a shambles. If someone had screwed up this badly in a normal job I think they would be getting their P45. Let's just hope 558 can eventually free herself of these jokers and some good honest enthusiasts can move in to look after her. Neverfuel, as you are an aircraft technician by trade and live near Doncaster we may well be relying on you quite soon to be part of a VRT, 655Maps group and safeguard 558.

Neverfuel
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Neverfuel »

Avionics I'm afraid XM

I would be fairly useless at trades that would be needed - riggers, sootys and leckies are probably the only trades that are relevant.

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aviodromefriend
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by aviodromefriend »

Neverfuel wrote:Where else do you have to read so called "facts" that are proved wrong by trustees of VTTS.
Any document coming from today's US administration.


























































Oh, wait, those are not withlaid by VTTS trustees, more by people with more knowledge on that subjects.
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tache3
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by tache3 »

aviodromefriend wrote:
Neverfuel wrote:Where else do you have to read so called "facts" that are proved wrong by trustees of VTTS.
Any document coming from today's US administration.

Oh, wait, those are not withlaid by VTTS trustees, more by people with more knowledge on that subjects.


Apologies if I'm a bit thick but what the hell does this post mean...?

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Brevet Cable
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Brevet Cable »

That someone's made an early start on the Toilet Duck & turps cocktails ?

Image

:lol:
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sooty655
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by sooty655 »

Neverfuel wrote:Avionics I'm afraid XM

I would be fairly useless at trades that would be needed - riggers, sootys and leckies are probably the only trades that are relevant.

You may be right for XH558, which has had all the Avionics stripped out, but you would certainly be useful at XM655. Our aim is to keep ALL the systems operable.

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Brevet Cable
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Brevet Cable »

Happy to be corrected, but wasn't the plan supposed to be to replace all the kit they stripped out once XH558 stopped flying ?
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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

Brevet Cable wrote:Happy to be corrected, but wasn't the plan supposed to be to replace all the kit they stripped out once XH558 stopped flying ?


Yes, I'm sure that was stated around the time of the first flight. Be interested to see if that's been the case, given the amount of stuff they've hawked on eBay over the years.

Perhaps Dr Bob's State Of The Nation address will cover this.

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flashman8
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by flashman8 »

Brevet Cable wrote:Happy to be corrected, but wasn't the plan supposed to be to replace all the kit they stripped out once XH558 stopped flying ?


That's what I thought too, all the modern stuff comes out, the original goes back in.......

Or are they keeping it ' as is` for now in case of a final flight?, cant think of any other reason why they have it still fitted.
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Bluebird Mike
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Bluebird Mike »

XR219 wrote:VTTST did not have a poor relationship with the OEMs. If they had, the OEMs would just have pulled the plug immediately. What happened (as is very well documented) is that Marshalls and RR felt they could no longer find the expertise within their organisations to sign off the Vulcan safely. It would have been in Marshall's financial interest to carry on from the perspective of payments to them, as obviously they stopped on grounding. At the end of 2015, RR would have needed to sign off an engine calendar life extension, but cycles remained for another two seasons. The LE mod (2221) embodied in 2013-14 released another seven seasons or so (from memory) on the airframe. Consequently VTTST felt there was an engineering basis to fly on to the end of 2017, but the OEMs felt they could not support this. For them, the potential downsides outweighed the relatively limited upsides. Nothing sinister and we're all friends again now.


Furthermore, and quite simply, many of the older hands at RR all took a decent redundancy package that was offered and much of the necessary experience quite simply wasn't there any more.

Reds Rolling
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Reds Rolling »

flashman8 wrote:
Brevet Cable wrote:Happy to be corrected, but wasn't the plan supposed to be to replace all the kit they stripped out once XH558 stopped flying ?


That's what I thought too, all the modern stuff comes out, the original goes back in.......

Or are they keeping it ' as is` for now in case of a final flight?, cant think of any other reason why they have it still fitted.

Perhaps there's no other reason than it's simply not a priority right now? :dunno:

bernarde
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by bernarde »

Reds Rolling wrote:
flashman8 wrote:
Brevet Cable wrote:Happy to be corrected, but wasn't the plan supposed to be to replace all the kit they stripped out once XH558 stopped flying ?


That's what I thought too, all the modern stuff comes out, the original goes back in.......

Or are they keeping it ' as is` for now in case of a final flight?, cant think of any other reason why they have it still fitted.

Perhaps there's no other reason than it's simply not a priority right now? :dunno:


Or they sacked the engineers who we're going to do it. :wall:

Xm657
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Xm657 »

I can't see the original cockpit being restored for several reasons. The aircraft was rewired and redundant wiring removed so I doubt if they put the old instruments back in they would do anything -unless they just lit up to make it look pretty.

If the old instruments were to be restored, even just for show, the time to have done it would have been when all the engineers were still on the payroll sitting around twittling their thumbs with nothing to do.

Personally I think it should be left how it is now. There are plenty of original Vulcans. 558 represents a modernised cockpit. Just think if we hadn't got rid of the Vulcans in the 80s and they were upgraded B52 style, they might have glass cockpits by now. I think people will still be interested in cockpit visits seeing the equipment that let her fly in the 21st century.

Reds Rolling
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Reds Rolling »

bernarde wrote:
Reds Rolling wrote:
flashman8 wrote:
Brevet Cable wrote:Happy to be corrected, but wasn't the plan supposed to be to replace all the kit they stripped out once XH558 stopped flying ?


That's what I thought too, all the modern stuff comes out, the original goes back in.......

Or are they keeping it ' as is` for now in case of a final flight?, cant think of any other reason why they have it still fitted.

Perhaps there's no other reason than it's simply not a priority right now? :dunno:


Or they sacked the engineers who we're going to do it. :wall:

So you think they should have kept paid engineers on just to put back the old systems... :wall:

Xm657
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Xm657 »

For goodness sake RR, are you actually serious or just trolling this thread hoping to stir a reaction and get it taken down again? Well you got me to bite so: the quite obvious point (although not to you) was that since all the engineers were being paid and had nothing to do they might as well have done something useful like putting the old instruments back in. But again the VttST seem to do the opposite of common sense. Common sense would have been to let the engineers and all the other paid hangers on go once flying was over. According to you it wasn't a priority, so begs the question, what was the priority for the engineering team that warranted them being employed until the end of 2016. Seems to me they were being retained for the eventual Canberra restoration but being paid from money that could have been set aside for 558's future (and was donated for that purpose).

bernarde
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by bernarde »

Reds Rolling wrote:
bernarde wrote:
Reds Rolling wrote:
flashman8 wrote:
Brevet Cable wrote:Happy to be corrected, but wasn't the plan supposed to be to replace all the kit they stripped out once XH558 stopped flying ?


That's what I thought too, all the modern stuff comes out, the original goes back in.......

Or are they keeping it ' as is` for now in case of a final flight?, cant think of any other reason why they have it still fitted.

Perhaps there's no other reason than it's simply not a priority right now? :dunno:


Or they sacked the engineers who we're going to do it. :wall:

So you think they should have kept paid engineers on just to put back the old systems... :wall:


No, during the 6 months prior to them being given the boot. It wasn't their fault they got the boot at the end of the day, the engineers we're not milking the cow dry, they were the true ones who we're in it for the pride and the passion of the aircraft rather then taking as much as you could as a salary / expenses for new house extensions and so forth. Each and every single engineer has the greatest of respect from me for what they have done and achieved from day 1 until the end.

Xm657
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Xm657 »

Absolutely bernarde. Just to be clear I wasn't suggesting the engineers were lazy twiddling their thumbs with nothing to do, I'm sure they did the best they could with the situation, e.g. the build a plane project. They and 558 are the victims in this, loosing their jobs just before xmas. It wasn't such a crazy idea that Mr Pleming wanted to keep the team together having built up a unique set of skilled engineers capable of flying cold war jets. However, as time and events proved, post Vulcan, there just wasn't the opportunity to do it on the same scale as before, and Mr Pleming should have realised that. It was wrong to keep everyone on after 2015 on such a ambitious punt to operate a Canberra: it gave them false hope. What is worse now though, are all the paid managers and administrators who still seem to be sucking the Vulcan dry.

If the old instruments are every to be reinstalled, it sounds like Neverfuel would be the ideal person to do it, he's ready and waiting to volunteer, and has the skills. I'm sure there are plenty of other Vulcan fans in Doncaster who could man the web shop in their spare time etc.

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