XV582 NOT going to Bruntingthorpe...

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tache3
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Re: XV582 NOT going to Bruntingthorpe...*UPDATED

Post by tache3 »

Meanwhile, BPAG are reporting that they are involved with someone called APRES (Aircraft Preservation Restoration and Education Society) about whom little information seems to be available.

vulcan558
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Re: XV582 NOT going to Bruntingthorpe...*UPDATED

Post by vulcan558 »

FarnboroJohn wrote:
vulcan558 wrote:The car industry is at a peak at this present time, I know that production numbers are dropping on some models.
The car industry peaks and drops very quickly,
Bruntingthorpes will be cashing in on this, who would not.

But come this time next year or year after you may find the place with very few cars.


Indeed. The car storage thing is based on the idea that unsold cars will be sold.... but they mustn't hang around long enough to interfere with future models. Also over-production of cars in a free market is not sustainable. The event income is lower but sustainable: the car storage can only be regarded as a windfall.

John

Very true, the build up of a few new models normally creates this type of storage also.
Like ive said this does not last long, ive seen this a few times over the years, with Gaydons storage area shrunk over thelast few years due to the large exspansion of Building on the site. Plus the loss of some other storage sites, Brunti is doing very well out of this boom time.

Keeps the site in a very strong financial footing.

vulcan558
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Re: XV582 NOT going to Bruntingthorpe...*UPDATED

Post by vulcan558 »

tache3 wrote:Meanwhile, BPAG are reporting that they are involved with someone called APRES (Aircraft Preservation Restoration and Education Society) about whom little information seems to be available.

Who are BPAG,

cg_341
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Re: XV582 NOT going to Bruntingthorpe...*UPDATED

Post by cg_341 »

British Phantom Aviation Group

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tache3
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Re: XV582 NOT going to Bruntingthorpe...*UPDATED

Post by tache3 »

cg_341 wrote:British Phantom Aviation Group


That is correct. They are the group carrying out the dismantling and transport of Black Mike from Leuchars to Cosford (and then carrying out the restoration work). Apparently backed by Gary Spoors and GJD Services.

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tache3
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Re: XV582 NOT going to Bruntingthorpe...*UPDATED

Post by tache3 »

tache3 wrote:
cg_341 wrote:British Phantom Aviation Group


That is correct. They are the group carrying out the dismantling and transport of Black Mike from Leuchars to Cosford (and then carrying out the restoration work). Apparently backed by Gary Spoors and GJD Services.


Correction- BPAG are an independent group but Gary Spoors loaned them the money to buy the aircraft. GJD are carrying out the move, presumably for free as Gary Spoors technically owns the aircraft, but that is speculation on my part.

Georgeconna
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Re: XV582 NOT going to Bruntingthorpe...*UPDATED

Post by Georgeconna »

Unknown74 wrote:Sorry but I think she should have gone to East Fortune, that U.S. Marked Phantom should have been an RAF marked example and either the Black Mike Phantom or the Phantom which went to Ireland would have been more appropriate.

Sorry but I'm just stating my opinion.


Edit - just remembered twas to Northern Ireland
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Zero shows for 2018 Giving in a Rest.

Joe Spares
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Re: XV582 NOT going to Bruntingthorpe...*UPDATED

Post by Joe Spares »

Was surprised to see an aerial view of Upper Heyford a few weeks back with no cars on it, as this was used for that purpose for years, so Brunty might be equally devoid of them in times ahead. I also thought Gary Spoors owned the desert Bucc too, be interesting to see if that vacates Brunty as well.....

Gregg
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Re: XV582 NOT going to Bruntingthorpe...*UPDATED

Post by Gregg »

You all realise that theres more to Brunty than a giant car park? And that there was aviation related malarky before GJD rocked up?

It's hugely amusing to see the rumours and speculation just because a single airframe isn't going to the place. Even linking it to XH558 not going there. Theres a very good reason why nobody is talking about the whys or why nots. It's nobody's business. :)

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Re: XV582 NOT going to Bruntingthorpe...*UPDATED

Post by Skymonster »

Gregg wrote:Theres a very good reason why nobody is talking about the whys or why nots. It's nobody's business. :)


Sorry, but as soon as a group starts asking for donations, as far as I'm concerned questions about where (or where not) and why become entirely legitimate. And if they are not answered, then that becomes an impediment to my preparedness to put my hand in my pocket. Cloak and dagger was what cost VTTS a lot of support - I hope this isn't the start of the same thing happening to Black Mike.

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Re: XV582 NOT going to Bruntingthorpe...*UPDATED

Post by Gregg »

They have said its going to Cosford because they offered hangar space and something to do with the centenary of the RAF etc. Seems fairly clear to me.

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Re: XV582 NOT going to Bruntingthorpe...*UPDATED

Post by Phantom 892 »

Gregg wrote:They have said its going to Cosford because they offered hangar space and something to do with the centenary of the RAF etc. Seems fairly clear to me.


That's only until April 2018. Hasn't been decided on where it's going after. They have a couple of places in mind, but haven't said where they are.

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Re: XV582 NOT going to Bruntingthorpe...*UPDATED

Post by Gregg »

Exactly. So they've said as much as they know. Which is hardly cloak and dagger.

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tache3
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Re: XV582 NOT going to Bruntingthorpe...*UPDATED

Post by tache3 »

Skymonster wrote:Sorry, but as soon as a group starts asking for donations, as far as I'm concerned questions about where (or where not) and why become entirely legitimate. And if they are not answered, then that becomes an impediment to my preparedness to put my hand in my pocket. Cloak and dagger was what cost VTTS a lot of support - I hope this isn't the start of the same thing happening to Black Mike.


I don't think that they have an active appeal for funds ongoing at the moment though do they? Although I guess that none of the restoration groups ever stop needing cash. I think that Gregg is right, there is simply no more info to give out at the moment. Perhaps that, and a fresh funding drive, is to come when the situation is clearer.

The cloak and dagger seems to be more about the situation at Bruntingthorpe rather then future plans for Black Mike.

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Re: XV582 NOT going to Bruntingthorpe...

Post by Gregg »

It's business as normal at Brunty. The number of cars is the only unusual thing and the departure of GJD isn't anything to do with the CWJ side of things.

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Re: XV582 NOT going to Bruntingthorpe...

Post by Xm657 »

I certainly hope you are right Gregg. I have been wondering for a while how GJD is going as they seem to have lengthy periods between aircraft scrapping and seemed to have been doing occassional aircraft moves instead. I believe the Cathay Pacific contract is now finished and they are certainly no way as busy as when they were doing all the VC10 scrapping for the MOD. So maybe it's just they can operate their business more profitably somewhere else.

I wonder why it was Gary Spoors rather that David Walton who bought BM though as Ive heard David Walton likes Phantoms. Maybe it's a shrewd bit of business by Gary, although he stumps up the cash initially the charity pay's him back and maybe he charges the charity for the move so earns something from it. Although Gary is a massive aviation fan so may be doing it all from his own pocket. There's obviously more to this than in the public domain. Let's just hope BM is ok in the end as there's already been the fraud incident with that guy stealing the donations a couple of years ago.

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Re: XV582 NOT going to Bruntingthorpe...

Post by ostrich74 »

absolutely unbelievable, it makes me wonder why groups doing their utmost to preserve aircraft usually at their own expense and in their own time bother sometimes. The rub is, its usually too give so called enthusiasts something to go and look at for little or no reward.

conspiracy theories and out and out speculation.

almost as bad as key publishing here now isn't it.
Member of The Buccaneer Aviation Group, Bruntingthorpe.

Gregg
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Re: XV582 NOT going to Bruntingthorpe...

Post by Gregg »

I am right.

Gary's business is exactly that, his business. Not mine, not yours, not anybody on this forum. Why the constant need to speculate and gossip about stuff thats completely irrelevant, by people with no clue as to what they're talking about is beyond me. The utter garbage spouted on the page previous is enough to get your head banging off the desk. And now it's questioning Gary's motives for buying BM! Who cares? What difference does it make? what business is it of anyones?

Zd241
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Re: XV582 NOT going to Bruntingthorpe...

Post by Zd241 »

As the person who runs the VC10 at Brunty, I can assure you 241 is safe.

Yes, there are many cars on Bruntingthorpe and there always will be. There also will always be aircraft there. Dave has to balance his love of jets with running a business. It's a fine line but something he's been massively successful in doing and will continue to do.

For anyone that has met Gary, they will know what a plane mad nut he his. He has jets in museums all over, not just Brunty. Him relocating is a business decision and will not affect 241.

Also the reasons for him moving his commercial business are frankly.... none of anyone's business bar his!!

I will not expand any further as it's not my place too but please, unless you know something for fact, please keep to yourself.

Rumours do nothing for these small preservation groups who try their hardest to keep the aircraft intact and away from the scrap man.
Last edited by Zd241 on Wed 30 Aug 2017, 7:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: XV582 NOT going to Bruntingthorpe...

Post by Spotty_Jag »

Zd241 wrote:For anyone that has met Gary, they will know what a plane mad nut he his. He has jets in museums all over, not just Brunty.

Indeed. Frankly absurd that people are calling his commitment to aviation preservation into question, just because a Phantom is going to be hangared and engineering at a Royal Air Force airbase instead of being sat out in the cold at Bruntingthorpe all winter? Personally I'd see this as a good news story? Hoping the jet stays around until mid-June at Cosford though...

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tache3
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Re: XV582 NOT going to Bruntingthorpe...

Post by tache3 »

Spotty_Jag wrote: Frankly absurd that people are calling his commitment to aviation preservation into question


I don't think anyone is, are they?

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Re: XV582 NOT going to Bruntingthorpe...

Post by Xm657 »

No but people are concerned that something very enjoyable to them MAY be coming to an end and trying/hoping for information that all is well. Human nature to gossip and speculate about the future.

I completely realise how lucky I am to have enjoyed the jets at Bruntingthorpe for the last 20 years courtesy of Mr Walton and latterly Mr Spoors. I have spoken to both to them and regard then as heros and felt privileged to talk to them I hold them in such high regard. I have no right to expect them to share their jets with me to view but hope they continue to do so. And purely for convenience I greedily hoped Bruntingthorpe might include a Phantom (and Vulcan) both of which would have added more to this unique place the like of which exists nowhere else in the world. However if I have to see the Vulcan at Doncaster and the Phantom elsewhere (hopefully both taxiing one day) so be it, it will be a privilege to do so.

If anyone in the know can put people's minds at rest that we can continue to enjoy the collection at Bruntingthorpe for years to come (including ZD241) I would be very relieved to hear it.

Thank you all involved in the preservation of these amazing machines.

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tache3
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Re: XV582 NOT going to Bruntingthorpe...

Post by tache3 »

Xm657 wrote:No but people are concerned that something very enjoyable to them MAY be coming to an end and trying/hoping for information that all is well. Human nature to gossip and speculate about the future.

I completely realise how lucky I am to have enjoyed the jets at Bruntingthorpe for the last 20 years courtesy of Mr Walton and latterly Mr Spoors. I have spoken to both to them and regard then as heros and felt privileged to talk to them I hold them in such high regard. I have no right to expect them to share their jets with me to view but hope they continue to do so. And purely for convenience I greedily hoped Bruntingthorpe might include a Phantom (and Vulcan) both of which would have added more to this unique place the like of which exists nowhere else in the world. However if I have to see the Vulcan at Doncaster and the Phantom elsewhere (hopefully both taxiing one day) so be it, it will be a privilege to do so.

If anyone in the know can put people's minds at rest that we can continue to enjoy the collection at Bruntingthorpe for years to come (including ZD241) I would be very relieved to hear it.

Thank you all involved in the preservation of these amazing machines.


Agreed and seconded. Also, as three different representatives of the various groups at Bruntingthorpe have commented that the speculation is nonsense, I guess that deals with the issue.

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Re: XV582 NOT going to Bruntingthorpe...

Post by Brevet Cable »

Zd241 wrote:Yes, there are many cars on Bruntingthorpe and there always will be. There also will always be aircraft there.
Always is a looong time......Nobody lives forever & nobody can say how things will change afterwards.
Can anyone guarantee 'always' won't change in five years time ?.....Ten ?......Twenty ?
Or do those who own the aircraft there all have 'in perpetuity' rights/contracts ?
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Re: XV582 NOT going to Bruntingthorpe...*UPDATED

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

Craig wrote:This also raises somewhat worrying questions about the VC-10s that are GJD Services owned and clearly won't be moving anywhere. It's be desperately sad if anything were to happen to them!


I think there's a lot of conclusions being made on this thread based on rumours and conjecture. GJD are one of several aircraft owners at Bruntingthorpe and differ in that they are also a day to day business. There are many reasons they may or may not leave Bruntingthorpe, and not all of these may relate to the airfield, its other uses or its owners. As others have pointed out, Gary Spoors owns aircraft dotted around the country, so if GJD moved, why should there necessarily be any threat to all his airframes at Bruntingthorpe?

Maybe it's actually best, like in many cases, to actually wait and see what's actually happening. :smile: