British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Discussions regarding historic aircraft, restoration and preservation etc
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Mike
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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Post by Mike »

I hope you have a more robust agreement in place this time around, before undertaking to support the F-4J(UK) recovery in conjunction with another organisation.

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tc2324
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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Post by tc2324 »

Mike wrote:I hope you have a more robust agreement in place this time around, before undertaking to support the F-4J(UK) recovery in conjunction with another organisation.


`Safety's` are in place so that another BM situation can not occur in this instance.

robterry99
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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Post by robterry99 »

tc2324 wrote:`Safety's` are in place so that another BM situation can not occur in this instance.


Wasn't that said after the Wilkes incident? And then people donated, and it all ended in tears, again. Third time lucky for BPAG?

Sadly anyone asking questions on the BPAG Facebook group about finer details (why there are two different bank accounts? does BPAG actually own ZE360 outright? what's the plan if they don't raise enough?) seems to resort in that person being branded a 'troll' and their comments deleted. Considering all that has happened in the past, BPAG really need to be transparent and open, especially if they're expecting to be funded to the tune of 50 grand.

I really do wish BPAG well, and hope that this latest venture doesn't turn into a farce like their previous attempts of Phantom preservation. More aircraft saved can only be a good thing.

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tache3
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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Post by tache3 »

robterry99 wrote:...hope that this latest venture doesn't turn into a farce like their previous attempts of Phantom preservation


That is somewhat unfair. The BPAG renovated the XV490 cockpit section that is on display at Newark and still (in conjunction with the owner, Mike Davey) manage and maintain this item, which has attended many events over the 2018 and 2019 seasons, proving to be a popular attraction. I'd say that is a win for BPAG.

The group also carried out the dismantling, transport, reassembly and refurbishment of XV582, which was a major attraction at the 2018 Cosford airshow. A great success and another feather in their cap. A real shame that the group had control of the airframe taken away from them but I'm sure they have learned important lessons from it.

Neither of these achievements can hardly be called 'a farce'.

robterry99
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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Post by robterry99 »

tache3 wrote:Neither of these achievements can hardly be called 'a farce'.


Fair points, well made, and maybe I've given BPAG a hard time.

Time will tell I suppose.

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tc2324
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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Post by tc2324 »

So to clarify!

BPAG and 74 Sqn Association own 50% of ZE360 each.

BPAG have their own bank account for their other planned projects while BPAG and 74 Sqn Association set up an independent bank account solely for the ZE360 restoration project. Neither organisation can remove funds from this account without a counter signature from the other. If you donate a tenner to the ZE360 restoration, your tenner will be be spent solely on the ZE360 restoration.

Lastly and more importantly, as you can imagine the 74 Sqn Association is made up of ex members of that Sqn who are fully behind this project, especially all the ex` J` air and ground crew who want to see her restored. After seeing all the hard work put in to Black Mike, it confirmed to us that BPAG were and had the right people for the job and the association look forward to working with BPAG on this restoration. This is a completely different situation to the Black Mike `incident`, so I do hope that people will now stop comparing this to that!

As for the question about a plan if we dont raise enough? Well there is no time limit, we would like to say it will be a 5 year project, but it may take 8. We just can`t say. The restoration will proceed as funds become available.

I have no problem answering questions on this subject, but I don`t want to be dealing with comments that are purely cynical in nature.

I have now set up a ZE360 Restoration page on the association website for anyone interested and I welcome contributions to it as it`s very much a work in progress, (link below).

http://74sqdn.tk/ze360-restoration-page/

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tc2324
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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Post by tc2324 »

Another article on the project in the Spotter E-Magazine from page 100 for those interested. (The rest of the magazine isnt bad either.... :heyhey: )

https://issuu.com/spottermagazine/docs/ ... mseJNvJeOY

Also just a reminder that if you do wish to donate to this worthwhile project, you will find details on how to on the 74 Tiger Sqn Associations 360 Restoration page. (Link in previous post)

Mike
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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Post by Mike »

I may have missed it in the linked articles, but what's the plan for the aircraft once restored?

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tc2324
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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Post by tc2324 »

Mike wrote:I may have missed it in the linked articles, but what's the plan for the aircraft once restored?


Mike, there is a bigger plan in the works of which ZE360, once restored, will be part of.

We are working towards having one of each type of F-4 Phantom`s that served in the Royal Air Force and displaying them to the public.

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CJS
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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Post by CJS »

tc2324 wrote:
Mike wrote:I may have missed it in the linked articles, but what's the plan for the aircraft once restored?


Mike, there is a bigger plan in the works of which ZE360, once restored, will be part of.

We are working towards having one of each type of F-4 Phantom`s that served in the Royal Air Force and displaying them to the public.


Displaying them in the air, or statically (roaded in to each show)?
"Forewarned is forearmed"
How do you know I didn't?

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iainpeden
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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Post by iainpeden »

CJS wrote:
tc2324 wrote:
Mike wrote:I may have missed it in the linked articles, but what's the plan for the aircraft once restored?


Mike, there is a bigger plan in the works of which ZE360, once restored, will be part of.

We are working towards having one of each type of F-4 Phantom`s that served in the Royal Air Force and displaying them to the public.


Displaying them in the air, or statically (roaded in to each show)?


Chris, behave; you will suggest they are looking to display them at RIAT next year alongside the Viggen and Draken from Sweden next. :smile:
(Mark Twain: There are lies, there are damn lies and then there are statistics)

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CJS
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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Post by CJS »

iainpeden wrote:
CJS wrote:
tc2324 wrote:
Mike wrote:I may have missed it in the linked articles, but what's the plan for the aircraft once restored?


Mike, there is a bigger plan in the works of which ZE360, once restored, will be part of.

We are working towards having one of each type of F-4 Phantom`s that served in the Royal Air Force and displaying them to the public.


Displaying them in the air, or statically (roaded in to each show)?


Chris, behave; you will suggest they are looking to display them at RIAT next year alongside the Viggen and Draken from Sweden next. :smile:


Now now, I was thinking more the year after. I'm not a complete fantasist. :lol:

Seriously, it was a genuine question :up:
"Forewarned is forearmed"
How do you know I didn't?

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tc2324
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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Post by tc2324 »

Not in the air......., but ask us that question again in 5 years..... :whistle:

If we received a £3 donation from each member of UKAR each year, that`s the restoration and transportation to RIAT and Cosford paid for each year. :heyhey:

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tc2324
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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Post by tc2324 »

Very pleased to announce that ZE360 now has a stable mate in the shape of F-4 Phantom FG.1 XT597 .........

Imagehttps://flic.kr/p/2gTypYZ
(Photo from the Everett Aero website)

597 will join 360 at it`s new home in due course.

More news soon.

FlankerPhoto
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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Post by FlankerPhoto »

That's excellent! :clap:

cg_341
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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Post by cg_341 »

The Phantom that's been so overpriced for what's left of it noone has wanted to touch it with s barge pole. I wonder what's changed, or has someone got deeper pockets that might previously have been announced?

An odd, but welcome nonetheless, announcement.

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tc2324
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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Post by tc2324 »

597 was bought by a private owner who is a member of BPAG. The new owner will finance the restoration themselves only relying on BPAG for it`s members expertise and volunteers to help out.

597 is a significant aircraft in British Phantom history. It was the 3rd 'K' ever built, the 1st pre-production airframe and it carried out the Cat&Trap and deck landing certification trials for the Spey powered jets. Once delivered to the RAE it spent its entire life as a trials and testing aircraft, never seeing squadron service. It was the very last Spey powered Phantom to fly.

Regarding the price paid, I have no idea and realistically it`s not really important. If the owners happy, that`s all that matters.

Another historic Phantom saved :cool:

XP282
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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Post by XP282 »

cg_341 - sorry but why is this an odd announcement? On a thread about saving phantoms, we hear an announcement that a phantom has been saved. Sorry, not being argumentative.... it’s a genuine Question..... what’s odd about that???

cg_341
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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Post by cg_341 »

XT597 has been for sale for a rather long period of time, sat outside with no discernible attempts to keep it from feeling the affects of the weather. The price Everett were asking was, for most that were seriously interested in it (including a number of museums I'm led to believe) far too high once the cost of restoration was factored in too.

To me it seems odd that all of a sudden it's become affordable to a) buy in the first place and b) turn in to a viable restoration project somewhere.

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tc2324
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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Post by tc2324 »

It simply comes down to what someone wishes to pay for it and how much they want to throw at it to get it restored. As I said before, it`s irrelevant now, but if you really want to know then feel free to contact Everett themselves.
Lets not this detract from the news that despite how it was saved, it was saved. Lets enjoy the news and all look forward ..... :up:

Of course, the added bonus being that no fundraising or asking for donations needs to be done with 597 which leads me nicely to pointing out that the same can not be said for ZE360.

We are working on fundraising options which we will make public soon, however donation details to the ZE360 project can be found via the Associations page, link below.

http://74sqdn.tk/ze360-restoration-page/

If everyone here gave up a cup of Starbucks coffee one morning or possibly a pint one evening, (ok, long shot I know), and donated the cost to the restoration, ZE360`s future would be secure. :heyhey:

Mike
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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Post by Mike »

It would make it a much more attractive a project to donate to if we knew what the plans are for it once it is restored.

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tc2324
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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Post by tc2324 »

Mike wrote:It would make it a much more attractive a project to donate to if we knew what the plans are for it once it is restored.


BPAG and the airfield owner are planning, longer term, a publicly accessible museum displaying all three types of RAF F-4 Phantoms. In the near term, we will be organising pre-booked visits to view the progress and aid fundraising.

FlankerPhoto
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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Post by FlankerPhoto »

Which airfield? Bentwaters?

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tc2324
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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Post by tc2324 »

FlankerPhoto wrote:Which airfield? Bentwaters?


I can`t disclose the exact location just yet I`m afraid, we still some `I`s to dot and `T`s to cross so to speak.

East Midlands is as much as I can say for now. Sorry.

Mike
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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Post by Mike »

So that'll be Newark then

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