Red Arrows incident

[T_J]

Perhaps the Mail wangled them out of the guy for nowt? Possible? "Do you mind if we use your pics..we will give you the credit!"

If you look at the Daily Mail images they have come from KNS News. The photographer has obviously sold them to KNS News.

The main picture is on the KNS News website. They are using it as an advert for people to sell their pics.

We broker and sell stories and pictures to national newspapers, TV channels, and magazines in the UK and around the world.

http://www.sell-story.co.uk/home

[SCARECROW 451]

To those of you complaining ( and worse ) about his actions :
Depending on your age :
What did you do when the events of '9/11' were unfolding, or when the photographs of the aircraft impacts ( and the people jumping from the building ) were published?
What did you do when the capsizing of the Herald of Free Enterprise was being shown, or the images were published in newspapers?
What did you do when the events of Bradford, Heysel & Hillsborough were unfolding, or when the images were published in newspapers?
More recently, what did you do when the events in Grenfell were unfolding, or when the images were published in newspapers?
What did you do when the Air France Concorde incident was unfolding, or when the images were published in newspapers?
There are many, many other similar events I could cite, but you should get my gist by now.

Did you turn off your televisions & complain about the published images?
If so, good for you.
If not, then in my opinion you're sanctimonious hypocrites.

Well said

[John_E]

For me, the only day difference I can identify between the 9/11, Herald of Free Enterprise, Grenfell examples is that none of those providing images of those events are likely to have been World Trade Centre, roll-on/roll off ferry or tower block enthusiasts. Mr Taylor claims to be an aviation enthusiast by definition of his claimed membership of a number of aviation-based Facebook groups. As such, I’d like to think that he would consider the sensitivities of those who may be viewing the images - perhaps including the friends/familiY/colleagues of the deceased before deciding whether their release to the public is the right thing to do.

I’m sure many of us who’ve been shooting aircraft for any length of time have photos that may be of interest to the press - I have a shot of a Hawk at low level in VERY close proximity to a paraglider. The press would undoubtedly make a huge deal of it and massively sensationalise it, but that shot has never seen the light of day. That’s my choice, same as David Taylor has made his choice. You can’t however choose to sell photos like that and not expect people within the enthusiast community to express a view on them.

[toom317]

I have a shot of a Hawk at low level in VERY close proximity to a paraglider. The press would undoubtedly make a huge deal of it and massively sensationalise it, but that shot has never seen the light of day. That’s my choice, same as David Taylor has made his choice. You can’t however choose to sell photos like that and not expect people within the enthusiast community to express a view on them.

Is anyone else getting fed up reading the moralising claptrap that is coming out over this and every other "incident" that has happened. Do you, and all the others who have pictures of incidents, feel some perverse need to boast and be congratulated for not posting or selling pictures, or feel the need to brag about the number of crashes they have been witness to? If you have made a decision not to post pics of incidents on your own moral grounds, then that's your choice, but please don't preach to everyone else.

As for your last sentence, I've seen comments both pro and anti for the photographer in this case, so I'm at a loss to understand what you mean, unless of course you are trying to say that all the "enthusiast" community should be against the guy.

[Brevet Cable]

For me, the only day difference I can identify between the 9/11, Herald of Free Enterprise, Grenfell examples is that none of those providing images of those events are likely to have been World Trade Centre, roll-on/roll off ferry or tower block enthusiasts. Mr Taylor claims to be an aviation enthusiast by definition of his claimed membership of a number of aviation-based Facebook groups. As such, I’d like to think that he would consider the sensitivities of those who may be viewing the images - perhaps including the friends/familiY/colleagues of the deceased before deciding whether their release to the public is the right thing to do.

Irrelevant - and 9/11 did involve aircraft - the simple fact is that all the events I listed involved large losses of life and the fact that those lives were known to have been lost ( and in the case of live ongoing events, were clearly being lost at the time )

[Seahornet]

For me, the only day difference I can identify between the 9/11, Herald of Free Enterprise, Grenfell examples is that none of those providing images of those events are likely to have been World Trade Centre, roll-on/roll off ferry or tower block enthusiasts. Mr Taylor claims to be an aviation enthusiast by definition of his claimed membership of a number of aviation-based Facebook groups. As such, I’d like to think that he would consider the sensitivities of those who may be viewing the images - perhaps including the friends/familiY/colleagues of the deceased before deciding whether their release to the public is the right thing to do.

I'm utterly baffled by this view. Are you suggesting that we have to have an interest in a particular subject, before we can understand the feelings of people affected by a death related to that subject? To put it another way, do you feel less concerned about the relatives of (say) house fire victims, than those of plane crash victims? Personally, I find that being a human being is far more significant in driving my emotional reactions than being an aviation enthusiast!

[borismorris]

Whether we like it or not Humans have a morbid fascination with our own (and other peoples) mortality. It's why people slow down to look at the car accident.

I personally don't want to see the image in question, so guess what? I've not gone looking for it. Those that want to see (for whatever reason) will look. Those that don't want to see will look away.

Who am I to judge whether this chappie should sell his photos or not?

[DDM10]

I haven’t seen anything in the news about this incident lately. Is there any official word on the grounding of the aircraft, affect on training and the likelihood of a red arrows display season this year?

Also with regards to my post about early speculation this was directed at the posting of a news source suggesting that the engineer and pilot escaped and that the incident was caused by a bird strike. We know sadly the first point to be false and surely the latter point is merely speculation, I assume that there hasn’t been any official word from the RAF?

[Talldan76]

The Reds aren’t grounded, and apparently will be displaying this year.

There was a video clip posted by BBC Radio Lincs, which showed the Reds returning to Scampton yesterday, ready to pick up on training again, ready for the new season. (I am assuming that they flew elsewhere after the crash?)

[DDM10]

Thanks for that information. I’m surprised that they weren’t grounded, that’s interesting and I look forward to hopefully seeing them again in the summer.

[The Baron]

They were grounded but that restriction has now been lifted and the aircraft stranded at Valley have returned to Scampton.

[GertrudetheMerciless]

Thanks for that information. I’m surprised that they weren’t grounded

They may well have been, briefly. However, if you very quickly establish the likely cause of the incident, be it by physical investigation or evidence of involved personnel/witnesses, then it can be very short lived.

[Tom105]

This may be of interest to people, Reds will still fly a 9 ship this year with Squadron Leader Mike Ling standing in.
https://www.raf.mod.uk/display-teams/re ... ws-season/

[Wrexham Mackem]

This may be of interest to people, Reds will still fly a 9 ship this year with Squadron Leader Mike Ling standing in. /

haha he just just isn't allowed to leave is he?!

Good news that.

[verreli]

This may be of interest to people, Reds will still fly a 9 ship this year with Squadron Leader Mike Ling standing in.
https://www.RAF.mod.uk/display-teams/re ... ws-season/

Outstanding decision and wishing Flt Lt Stark a speedy recovery.

[harkins]

This may be of interest to people, Reds will still fly a 9 ship this year with Squadron Leader Mike Ling standing in.
https://www.RAF.mod.uk/display-teams/re ... ws-season/

Outstanding decision and wishing Flt Lt Stark a speedy recovery.

Seconded.

Excuse my ignorance of the RAFAT display, but is it quite likely that Squadron Leader Ling will be able to fly Red 3 for the full routine given he rejoins at this relatively late stage or is it possible that he'll be restricted to the Diamond Nine formation and other non aerobatic maneuvers?

[Spiny Norman]

This may be of interest to people, Reds will still fly a 9 ship this year with Squadron Leader Mike Ling standing in.
https://www.RAF.mod.uk/display-teams/re ... ws-season/

Outstanding decision and wishing Flt Lt Stark a speedy recovery.

Seconded.

Excuse my ignorance of the RAFAT display, but is it quite likely that Squadron Leader Ling will be able to fly Red 3 for the full routine given he rejoins at this relatively late stage or is it possible that he'll be restricted to the Diamond Nine formation and other non aerobatic maneuvers?

Considering his experience and the time for the work-up I would think he's there for the full display routine.

He would probably be able to fly all the other positions too!

[Talldan76]

This may be of interest to people, Reds will still fly a 9 ship this year with Squadron Leader Mike Ling standing in.
https://www.RAF.mod.uk/display-teams/re ... ws-season/

Outstanding decision and wishing Flt Lt Stark a speedy recovery.

Seconded.

Excuse my ignorance of the RAFAT display, but is it quite likely that Squadron Leader Ling will be able to fly Red 3 for the full routine given he rejoins at this relatively late stage or is it possible that he'll be restricted to the Diamond Nine formation and other non aerobatic maneuvers?

Considering his experience and the time for the work-up I would think he's there for the full display routine.

He would probably be able to fly all the other positions too!

He also flew as Red 3 in his first stint as a Reds Pilot.

[Fournier]

It's was a tragic loss of life but I think this outpouring of umbrage-taking is getting a little daft now. Fatal accidents happen every day and before there was a camera/phone in everyone's pocket, a photo of a crash as it was happening was a rare thing and people who took such photos could name their price. I just wish people would stop seeking the next thing to be outraged about. If there were no such photos readily available out there, you'd all be looking for one, and you know it.

[CJS]

No, I really really wouldn't be.

[vulcan558]

It's was a tragic loss of life but I think this outpouring of umbrage-taking is getting a little daft now. Fatal accidents happen every day and before there was a camera/phone in everyone's pocket, a photo of a crash as it was happening was a rare thing and people who took such photos could name their price. I just wish people would stop seeking the next thing to be outraged about. If there were no such photos readily available out there, you'd all be looking for one, and you know it.

Most people drive around today with dash cams. The internet is full of crash and smash videos.

[Wissam24]

It's was a tragic loss of life but I think this outpouring of umbrage-taking is getting a little daft now. Fatal accidents happen every day and before there was a camera/phone in everyone's pocket, a photo of a crash as it was happening was a rare thing and people who took such photos could name their price. I just wish people would stop seeking the next thing to be outraged about. If there were no such photos readily available out there, you'd all be looking for one, and you know it.

Nope!

[duxfordhawk]

Accident photos and video is just the modern-day version of when Romans fed Christians to the lions, we like to think we have evolved but the reality is many haven't. It doesn't justify it and myself I would rather any such footage or photography was not made public, but somewhere it will always appear.

In other news, it's nice to see Mike Ling will return as Red 3 for this season, sad reasons to return, but always glad to see him with the team.

[CJS]

In other news, it's nice to see Mike Ling will return as Red 3 for this season, sad reasons to return, but always glad to see him with the team.

Agreed, I've had the pleasure of meeting him a couple of times and he did an extremely kind thing for me a few years ago - a lovely chap.

[Seahornet]

It's was a tragic loss of life but I think this outpouring of umbrage-taking is getting a little daft now. Fatal accidents happen every day and before there was a camera/phone in everyone's pocket, a photo of a crash as it was happening was a rare thing and people who took such photos could name their price. I just wish people would stop seeking the next thing to be outraged about. If there were no such photos readily available out there, you'd all be looking for one, and you know it.

Since the "outpouring of umbrage-taking" (which you claim to dislike) ended over a fortnight ago, why have you chosen to stir the pot, and get it started again...? Ironically, it seems as though you might just be "seeking something to be outraged about"...!

And as for your last statement, you are making the classic error of assuming that everyone thinks and feels the same way that you do. Well no, actually, some of us don't.