First F35s to Marham 5th June

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effects
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Re: First F35s to Marham 5th June

Post by effects »

GertrudetheMerciless wrote:
jules48 wrote:Its been reported they had 9 refuels in an 8 hour flight.Is that right.How can they be the new front line aircraft if they cannot fly more then a 1000 miles without refuelling and assume they were not even supersonic.


Trails are not just a case of draining the tanks and refilling them. There are lots of other considerations to ensure each jet has an appropriate fuel load at any particular point on the journey.

true, they are about consuming outrageous amounts of ale at places like Lajes, Halifax etc :lol:
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Re: First F35s to Marham 5th June

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

effects wrote:
GertrudetheMerciless wrote:
jules48 wrote:Its been reported they had 9 refuels in an 8 hour flight.Is that right.How can they be the new front line aircraft if they cannot fly more then a 1000 miles without refuelling and assume they were not even supersonic.


Trails are not just a case of draining the tanks and refilling them. There are lots of other considerations to ensure each jet has an appropriate fuel load at any particular point on the journey.

true, they are about consuming outrageous amounts of ale at places like Lajes, Halifax etc :lol:


Or, if this is the future, not doing so. Much better in “the old days”!

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Re: First F35s to Marham 5th June

Post by Xm657 »

I'm sure the F-35B's range is classified but Google would have me believe its not much more than 1000 nautical miles. Remember the B model has very limited internal space and extra weight to carry around with that huge lift fan. It seems a great pity there couldn't have been a catapult on the new carrier and we could have had the C model.

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Re: First F35s to Marham 5th June

Post by vulcan558 »

Xm657 wrote:I'm sure the F-35B's range is classified but Google would have me believe its not much more than 1000 nautical miles. Remember the B model has very limited internal space and extra weight to carry around with that huge lift fan. It seems a great pity there couldn't have been a catapult on the new carrier and we could have had the C model.

Agree that the C model would oc been the best choice.

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Re: First F35s to Marham 5th June

Post by KyleG »

When you invest in CATOBAR, it's not just the cost of fitting catapults and ordering the slightly more expensive C variant instead. The two nations in the world who operate CATOBAR carriers both have squadrons effectively dedicated to the one job of operating from the carriers. Unlike STOVL, which you can practice anywhere with a suitable landing surface, CATOBAR training in practice requires the use of an aircraft carrier. For the US, this works out fine, they've got 11 carriers. France on the other hand has had to deploy their Rafales across to the US simply to maintain currency on a significant part of their pilot's roles, as their single carrier is undergoing a refit. Assuming we could still have afforded the two carriers if they were CATOBAR, that's a very big and very expensive asset to have sailing around UK waters being nothing but a training aid for pilots.

Additionally, the QE class doesn't produce steam, unlike their nuclear (and previously steam) powered counterparts. Of course, there's EMALS, but EMALS is new and temperamental technology today, let alone ten years ago when the carriers were ordered.
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Re: First F35s to Marham 5th June

Post by G67 »

The French situation is a good example of the high costs of 'saving money'; the second carrier of the class was cancelled in 2003 as some comptoir de haricots calculated that switching to non-nuclear would shave a billion Euros off the price. Despite all the debugging that had been done with R91, it was decided to start from scratch. And then that was itself cancelled.

So everytime the Rafales are deployed across the Atlantic we can deduct that from the billion Euros 'saving'.

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Re: First F35s to Marham 5th June

Post by jonny7 »

Just heard John Humphreys on Radio 4 at 07.40, talking about security at Marham. He was saying some spotters were overheard saying to each other how there was just a wooden fence protecting the multi million pound F35s. Maybe expect a new Iron curtain to surround the place after that gripe.ha,ha :joystick:
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Re: First F35s to Marham 5th June

Post by fighterfoto »

It was a story in The Sun re Marham being insecure, see here: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6496188/r ... ket-fence/

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Re: First F35s to Marham 5th June

Post by Binbrook 01 »

Well those of us old enough to remember proper Vulcan flying out of Scampton and Waddington in the 70s...…

Can also remember the same tiddly little fences..... Oh Wasn't that in the middle of some Cold period.....

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Re: First F35s to Marham 5th June

Post by toom317 »

Binbrook 01 wrote:Well those of us old enough to remember proper Vulcan flying out of Scampton and Waddington in the 70s...…

Can also remember the same tiddly little fences..... Oh Wasn't that in the middle of some Cold period.....


Yes, and that was live ammo the RAF Police had in their guns. :biggrin:
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Re: First F35s to Marham 5th June

Post by Spiny Norman »

So if there is a security issue why would you highlight it in a national newspaper?

Seems rather silly to do that.

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Re: First F35s to Marham 5th June

Post by Georgeconna »

I must admit the 1st time going to Coltishall I could not believe the how low the Fence there and Jags taxying a few feet from it. Great days indeed.
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Re: First F35s to Marham 5th June

Post by Brevet Cable »

Spiny Norman wrote:So if there is a security issue why would you highlight it in a national newspaper?

Seems rather silly to do that.

Because chip-wrappers like The Scum like to foment outrage.
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Re: First F35s to Marham 5th June

Post by iainpeden »

Who'd want to pinch a DAVE anyway - too complicated to have much scrap value for the local Steptoe.
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Re: First F35s to Marham 5th June

Post by capercaillie »

iainpeden wrote:Who'd want to pinch a DAVE anyway - too complicated to have much scrap value for the local Steptoe.


You couldn't even throw it in the sea these days without having a lecture on how a whale would starve after eating it! :mad:
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Re: First F35s to Marham 5th June

Post by Binbrook 01 »

Yesterdays newspaper is tomorrow outhouse toilet paper..... :tumbleweed: :tumbleweed:

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Re: First F35s to Marham 5th June

Post by Brevet Cable »

Posts on the Milscanners newsgroup have it that the F-35s will start operating next Monday ( 18th )
Can't vouch for the accuracy of that, given that people on some forums were saying they were going to start operating last Monday ( 11th )
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Re: First F35s to Marham 5th June

Post by toom317 »

Brevet Cable wrote:Posts on the Milscanners newsgroup have it that the F-35s will start operating next Monday ( 18th )
Can't vouch for the accuracy of that, given that people on some forums were saying they were going to start operating last Monday ( 11th )


That's stealth for you Brevet. We've had all 4 them through the valley at some point during this week, but they must have had the stealth mode switched on, as they didn't even appear in the photographs. :lol:
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Re: First F35s to Marham 5th June

Post by Brevet Cable »

So stealthy that the fence-lurkers at Marham didn't report them ( and no reported comms either )
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Re: First F35s to Marham 5th June

Post by Brevet Cable »

Given the distinct lack of reports, presumably they still haven't been up yet?
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Re: First F35s to Marham 5th June

Post by 138EAW »

No, tomorrow is the enthusiast day. They'll be one available to photograph. Wonder if they might finally fly tomorrow

There was talk the first two batches at Marham wouldn't fly much in the early days because on imminent upgrade.
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Re: First F35s to Marham 5th June

Post by vulcan558 »

138EAW wrote:No, tomorrow is the enthusiast day. They'll be one available to photograph. Wonder if they might finally fly tomorrow

There was talk the first two batches at Marham wouldn't fly much in the early days because on imminent upgrade.

Would say it's more the lack of spare parts.

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Re: First F35s to Marham 5th June

Post by f-4 »

To be fair I expect the pilots are probably having a few days well-earned leave after being deployed to the States for a few months. Ground crews will also be learning their new toys. Once they get going I expect one or two will fly each day.

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Re: First F35s to Marham 5th June

Post by Brevet Cable »

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Re: First F35s to Marham 5th June

Post by MiG_Eater »

I still can't understand the point of the RAF F-35Bs having a vertical landing capability. Don't they melt or set fire to anything they land on that is un-reinforced?

Are these VLPs basically just for training the RN pilots?

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