IMPORTANT - Future of UKAR

[jingernut]

My god aren't you a happy little bunny, if you hate UKAR so much why are you visiting and posting?

Because posts like this make me smile.

Don't remember saying I hate it? Just pointed out that this isn't the only source for airshow / aircraft information.

[Wissam24]

Even back then the Vulcan was occupying server space

[Weather Watcher]

Firstly thanks to staff and Paul for giving such a clear description of the current position.

Secondly, during the period of server migration (in my limited experience a potentially fraught undertaking) could I encourage staff who are not involved with the technical aspects, to thoroughly investigate the options for insulating the finance of UKAR from the personal finances of an individual whether that be through a club, trust, company, partnership or some other method. UKAR is going to need income of some description, paid membership, subscription, advertising, sponsorship, donations to cover running costs, hopefully development and potential one off costs in the future.

I understand that there may be some reluctance to do this, due to the perceived bureaucratic and regulatory burdens that this may involve. However unless there is an individual who is prepared to take on the financial burden as Paul has done previously, I believe that this is the best hope of securing the future of UKAR.

Best of luck and please continue to keep us updated.

[vtwo]

Really sorry to hear about your health problems Paul and I wish you well. Before I found this site, the only places I had for airshow information were the Usenet Newsgroups - although they were academic, they were not a place to loiter as they already had a bad reputation at University. It may interest you that my oldest bookmark for UKAR is http://www.uk-airshows.demon.co.uk/ from around Oct 1998. Although I don't post much and would likely be culled in the proposals above, I would like to thank you for giving me a resource with which to follow my hobby. It has been a place to visit at least daily since I found it all those years ago. The photography on here is superb and the combined knowledge of most of the folks who post is vast, and I have to admit at times makes me feel like I know nothing (nothing worth posting anyway.)

[parsley]

I'd certainly be very sad to see UKAR go...over the years it's provided large amounts of information,great photographs to look at,good laughs (as well as some cringing facepalm moments !) and a sense of being part of a community.

I'd certainly be prepared to donate on whatever basis dependant on details

[81TFW]

Another frequent visitor, infrequent poster here.

I'd miss the forum if it was to go, it's not as busy as it was but it's still good, it may be a bit old fashioned but hey so am I.

I'd be happy to pay some sort of subscription, however that's administered. Thanks.

[Rick]

Sorry to hear of Paul's health issues and wish him well for the future.
UKAR has been my goto site for the best part of 15 years. Thanks Paul for going to the the trouble and expense of running it
The UKAR enclosure at Kemble was a lot of fun too.

I would have no problem at all in paying a subscription to keep it going.

Long live the pink wafers & TBM-700 display

[Skymonster]

I'm disappointed that UKAR might cease as I think it is still a valuable source of information and debate. I hope Paul recovers from his maladies and the admins can find a way through the current challenges.

I would be be prepared to consider paying a reasonable subscription if it was the only way of ensuring the site remained, with a couple of caveats:
1. As has been witnessed here, there are many people who view but do not contribute. While I totally respect that position I don't think viewers-only should get a free ride. So if the site goes subscription, it needs to be for both contributors and viewers (i.e. please do not pursue the free-to-view, pay-to-contribute model).
2. The thing that brought me back to UKAR day in day out was the VTTS/XH558 thread, which was calously locked by the admins. Since discussion of VTTS was effectively banned, I have visited UKAR far less frequently. If I were paying for use, I think the moderation policy would need to be relaxed as I would not be prepared to pay to use a forum which restricted free discussion as has happened with the Vulcan debate.

[FarnboroJohn]

I would be be prepared to consider paying a reasonable subscription if it was the only way of ensuring the site remained, with a couple of caveats:
1. As has been witnessed here, there are many people who view but do not contribute. While I totally respect that position I don't think viewers-only should get a free ride. So if the site goes subscription, it needs to be for both contributors and viewers (i.e. please do not pursue the free-to-view, pay-to-contribute model).

While I understand the feeling of not wanting freeloaders, I think it also has to be borne in mind that for UKAR to continue long-term, members have to cycle through: becoming interested, joining, perhaps later changing interests/lifestyle/priorities and leaving. The first part of that is at least as important as the last. It is therefore essential that people with the real potential to become members are able to dip in and out, "lurk" and eventually decide to take the plunge, as freely as possible. Having to contribute from the first time of accessing the site will - not might - put many/most off. That is not good for UKAR. Would a free trial period be easy to manage? If so, perhaps that would be the answer.

Conversely, having to pay to contribute might put off some who UKAR would be better off without. One can hope...

[CJS]

I'm disappointed that UKAR might cease as I think it is still a valuable source of information and debate. I hope Paul recovers from his maladies and the admins can find a way through the current challenges.

I would be be prepared to consider paying a reasonable subscription if it was the only way of ensuring the site remained, with a couple of caveats:
1. As has been witnessed here, there are many people who view but do not contribute. While I totally respect that position I don't think viewers-only should get a free ride. So if the site goes subscription, it needs to be for both contributors and viewers (i.e. please do not pursue the free-to-view, pay-to-contribute model).
2. The thing that brought me back to UKAR day in day out was the VTTS/XH558 thread, which was calously locked by the admins. Since discussion of VTTS was effectively banned, I have visited UKAR far less frequently. If I were paying for use, I think the moderation policy would need to be relaxed as I would not be prepared to pay to use a forum which restricted free discussion as has happened with the Vulcan debate.

Totally agree. In fact, given that so many seem to view but not post, perhaps you should get a discount if you actually bother to contribute (meaningfully) to the discussions, as those would be the members drawing the other (paying) members in!

I'm joking

Nah, it restricted idiocy, repetition and idiocy (see what I did there...).

[IgnatiusJReilly]

Have broken my resolution not to login to this site to say;
Sorry guys, thanks for running the site in the past but the admins attitude towards, and the locking of, the XH558 thread has lost you my support.
It was the only open forum for discussion and sharing of what VTTS are really doing and its loss was a really short sighted move.

Would be happy to reconsider my position, including regular financial support, if things change.
Good luck otherwise.

[CJS]

Have broken my resolution not to login to this site to say;
Sorry guys, thanks for running the site in the past but the admins attitude towards, and the locking of, the XH558 thread has lost you my support.
It was the only open forum for discussion and sharing of what VTTS are really doing and its loss was a really short sighted move.

Would be happy to reconsider my position, including regular financial support, if things change.
Good luck otherwise.

How many time does it have to be said - not just by admin, staff or moderators, but by anyone (like me) who was actually paying attention at the time, that the '558 thread was locked because of the utter nonsense, boring repetitiveness and pointless one upmanship-willy waving and personal digs between several members, who chose to use the thread as a battleground.

They were given fair warning, which they ignored, and we all suffered the consequences because of that. But it was, IMHO, absolutely the only thing the staff could do, and I am glad that they did, however interesting and informative the thread (occasionally) was.

If it was the only place on the internet where the future of '558 could be discussed openly and honestly, then the minority blew it for the rest of us. And if it was having, or would have had, any impact whatsoever on the future of the aircraft, then that went the same way as the thread had to.

[Talldan76]

Well said Chris.

That is exactly why the thread was locked and removed.

[Airwolfhound]

I was amongst the original membership of UKAR many many years ago, I think I first posted back sometime in 1996. I have used this site pretty much constantly ever since, either posting or (when banned (twice I think now)) just loitering and reading up on various threads. I have made financial donations to the board and have also bought various board merchandise in the past. The rucksack is still going strong

However, over the past 20 years or so, interests have changed, tolerance levels have reduced, and to be fair certain behaviour of various members has gotten to be a bit boring and predictable.

Would I pay for the use of the board, well depends how much is being asked ? If it was more than £10 a year then probably not. It would depend on what I could get out of the forum. I have met some really decent people at various airshows from this board, have become great friends with Helired for example, and would be a shame if UKAR bowed out now. However, with Facebook, and other social media available offering some decent places to post photos or get 'heads-up' on genuine movements, I would not be terribly affected if UKAR ended now. I would miss it for sure, but info is available from other sites in all fairness.

[vulcan558]

Well said Chris.

That is exactly why the thread was locked and removed.

Was very poor moderating, nothing wrong with deleting the chaff from the wheat.
Just a lack of good moderrating or just laziness, biggest topic ever on the forum most views etc.
So simply bin it.

[Domvickery]

Well said Chris.

That is exactly why the thread was locked and removed.

Was very poor moderating, nothing wrong with deleting the chaff from the wheat.
Just a lack of good moderrating or just laziness, biggest topic ever on the forum most views etc.
So simply bin it.

I mean I know we had nothing better to do with our lives than pressing F5 every minute of every day waiting for comments to delete from a single thread on the site, I can see why you’d think that.

I suppose its easier to blame others than admit that posters in that thread were rediculous

[CJS]

Well said Chris.

That is exactly why the thread was locked and removed.

Was very poor moderating, nothing wrong with deleting the chaff from the wheat.
Just a lack of good moderrating or just laziness, biggest topic ever on the forum most views etc.
So simply bin it.

No, just a lack of intelligence and/or common sense from certain posters to that thread.

But anyway, it's thread drift. Quite enough time has been spent discussing that particular discussion.

Just a thought - I wonder if new threads could be subject to moderator approval before going live to the site? Not comments, just when someone starts a new thread up.

There have been a few recently which are pointless and then get locked by admin - quite rightly - but are still there clogging up the page. I appreciate that it would be more work for you as staffers, but could help to raise the expected level of discussion back up again, if it's felt that's something that is needed.

If only threads deemed UKAR-worthy are even allowed to be started it would send a message to others, perhaps? I'm all for free speech, and this idea reallu is only to weed out the utterly pointless, but it's the staff team who run the site for free in their own time and who want it to continue to be highly regarded, so I personally have no problem with them deciding which threads make the grade and which are consigned to the, hmm... 'Doncaster airport of UKAR' shall we call it, where they can sit, unseen and unloved, gradually to disappear completely and be mercifully forgotten about.

[vulcan558]

Well said Chris.

That is exactly why the thread was locked and removed.

Was very poor moderating, nothing wrong with deleting the chaff from the wheat.
Just a lack of good moderrating or just laziness, biggest topic ever on the forum most views etc.
So simply bin it.

I mean I know we had nothing better to do with our lives than pressing F5 every minute of every day waiting for comments to delete from a single thread on the site, I can see why you’d think that.

I suppose its easier to blame others than admit that posters in that thread were rediculous

Just like the RIAT wishlist 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, same old crap over and over again, same old.
Lets just lock um down.

[intothefireuk]

Just wanted to add my best wishes and support to the UKAR team. Long(ish) time forum member but not much of a poster. I do visit everyday but don't always log on. Would be gutted if it disappeared. Happy to chip in if necessary.

Cheers
ITF

[flyer2001]

Whilst I am not a contributor, I am a regular user, in particular the threads under Waffle, checking on events such as the Northolt nightshoot and so on. It would certainly be a shame if this forum should die, and perhaps crowdfunding or annual / monthly subscriptions could be charged. Both have been mentioned in previous posts.

[paullangford]

How much are we talking about then ?

1) How much to save it ?
2) How much to run it ?
3) How much per head ?

Maybe offer shares/ crowdfunding ?..............get a small return from advertising ?
I 'pay' to be in most clubs/ charities, but then I'm made to feel I'm making a contribution to something worthwhile, or I can have a genuine effect on an issue.

Also.........I'll miss the childish squabbling that descends into chaos that occurs after any reasonably posted question

[LN Strike Eagle]

How much are we talking about then ?

1) How much to save it ?
2) How much to run it ?
3) How much per head ?

Maybe offer shares/ crowdfunding ?..............get a small return from advertising ?
I 'pay' to be in most clubs/ charities, but then I'm made to feel I'm making a contribution to something worthwhile, or I can have a genuine effect on an issue.

Also.........I'll miss the childish squabbling that descends into chaos that occurs after any reasonably posted question

Information regarding costings was provided towards the top of Page 4 of this thread.

[paullangford]

How much are we talking about then ?

1) How much to save it ?
2) How much to run it ?
3) How much per head ?

Maybe offer shares/ crowdfunding ?..............get a small return from advertising ?
I 'pay' to be in most clubs/ charities, but then I'm made to feel I'm making a contribution to something worthwhile, or I can have a genuine effect on an issue.

Also.........I'll miss the childish squabbling that descends into chaos that occurs after any reasonably posted question

Information regarding costings was provided towards the top of Page 4 of this thread.

Ah.......ok.....I shall have a look see....thx

[CJS]

Well, if all 12,662 members pitch in, that's about 2p each per year. I can stretch to that.

[FlyingMachinesTV]

So you need about £650.00 a year?