Official costs of RAF displays and static teams 2019

[HampshirePhil]

Hello all,

Intrigued about that question which regularly comes up on these forums about how much the RAF charges for displays, flypasts and static participants I sent off a FOI request (Ref: 2019/09784 - which will soon be published on the FOI sites) to the MOD and just had my response from the Air Command Secretariat at RAF High Wycombe.

Flypasts

Firstly "the RAF does not routinely charge for flypasts which are usually undertaken on transit flights between events or to and from the display teams home base. Flypasts by operational aircraft such as Typhoon or Hercules C-130 are usually undertaken as part of a routine training sortie so are at no additional cost. On the rare occasions where a charge for a flypast is raised, this is done on a case by case basis".

Costs to airshows

Typhoon (F) - £2,805 (+£423 for insurance)
Typhoon (S) - £2,125
F-35 (S) - £2,215
Hawk (S) - £535 (+£410 insurance)
Tucano (F) - £545 (+£355 insurance)
Tucano or Texan (S) - £535
Tutor (F) - £545 (+£300 for insurance)
Tutor or Prefect (S) - £535
Helicopters (local engagement) (F) - £30
Red Arrows (F) - £11,342 (+£2,657 for insurance)
RAF Falcons Parachute Display Team (F) - £3,252 (+£314 insurance)
C-130 Hercules (S) - £915 (+£355 for insurance)
C-17 (S) - £915
Phenom (S) - £535
Viking (S) - £535
Islander (S) - £535
Sentinel (S) - £915
Shadow (S) - £535
Bae 146 (S) - £1,770 (!)
Juno 135 (S) - £695
Jupiter 145 (S) - £695
Voyager (S) - £1,770 (+£500 insurance)
Atlas A400M (S) - £915 (+£500 insurance)
BBMF Lancaster - £1,358 (+£300 insurance)
BBMF Dakota - £1,038 (+£300 insurance)
BBMF Spitfire - £757 (+£300 insurance)
BBMF Hurricane - £757 (+£300 insurance)
BBMF Lanc, Dak, 1 fighter - £2,948 (+£675 for insurance)
BBMF Dak, Spit, Hurri - £2,387 (+£675 for insurance)
BBMF Lan, Spit, Hurri - £2,715 (+£675 for insurance)
BBMF Dak, Lan, Hurri and Spit - £3,085 (+£900 for insurance)

There is also an option to combine insurance costs for static displays:

Up to three aircraft - £218
Per aircraft cost (if more than three on static) - £109

[Tom105]

Really interesting read thank you for posting!

[capercaillie]

Shadow

I'd be disappointed to pay the same for a Viking as I would for a Hawk or Phenom?

[Wissam24]

Interesting that a Herc and C-17 cost the same for static, but the Herc requires insurance

[Paul_Reflex]

Perhaps you could have asked them how much it costs them to respond to flippant FOI requests which have no journalistic purpose.

[Brevet Cable]

[clearstone]

These costs don't tell the full picture as most shows will have to pay hotel/accommodation costs as well for the sometimes quite sizeable support crews!

[Wissam24]

Perhaps you could have asked them how much it costs them to respond to flippant FOI requests which have no journalistic purpose.

How doesn't it have journalistic purpose? I can say that this would actually be quite useful for us, and puts things in perspective.
Just because you don't see how it's useful doesn't mean it isn't.

[CJS]

Perhaps you could have asked them how much it costs them to respond to flippant FOI requests which have no journalistic purpose.

Most pointless post of the day (so far)...

obviously apart from this one

[Airwolfhound]

Perhaps you could have asked them how much it costs them to respond to flippant FOI requests which have no journalistic purpose.

Working in Local Government Finance for the best part of 30 years, and dealing with multiple FOI requests per month, I can categorically say that his is definitely not a flippant FOI request by any stretch of the imagination

[HampshirePhil]

Perhaps you could have asked them how much it costs them to respond to flippant FOI requests which have no journalistic purpose.

Off topic entirely but according to a study done by UCL in 2010 the average cost of an FOI was £293 in the England and Wales. Not even enough to cover the cost of a static Islander. Paul will also be happy to note that a separate FOI was also given to the JHC to find out their costs as well. So I apologie to the community for that one less Islander at UK airshows this year.

[Wes_Howes]

I assume the Chinook and Puma don't appear as they come under the control of JHC?

[HampshirePhil]

I assume the Chinook and Puma don't appear as they come under the control of JHC?

Correct, the Puma and Chinook (and Apache(?)) requests are dealt with by the JHC and FAA aircraft are dealt with by the Joint Support Air Tasking Organisation at RNAS Yeovilton.

[capercaillie]

Perhaps you could have asked them how much it costs them to respond to flippant FOI requests which have no journalistic purpose.

Off topic entirely but according to a study done by UCL in 2010 the average cost of an FOI was £293 in the England and Wales. Not even enough to cover the cost of a static Islander. Paul will also be happy to note that a separate FOI was also given to the JHC to find out their costs as well. So I apologie to the community for that one less Islander at UK airshows this year.

Do the RAF still officially have any Islanders to apologise for not having an Islander at a show?

[Brevet Cable]

Didn't they take on the AAC's ones earlier this year, or was that binned?

[starbuck]

I assume the Chinook and Puma don't appear as they come under the control of JHC?

Correct, the Puma and Chinook (and Apache(?)) requests are dealt with by the JHC and FAA aircraft are dealt with by the Joint Support Air Tasking Organisation at RNAS Yeovilton.

How does that work with the F35s then or is it a non issue as there are no FAA squadrons at the moment. Maybe in the future you will be able to invite them both to attend your show and see how much of a discount you can get as they compete for your money!

[HampshirePhil]

Didn't they take on the AAC's ones earlier this year, or was that binned?

They are still in use but they are in the process of being upgraded at the moment

[psquiddy]

How do they work the prices out?

Surely it costs the RAF more than a couple of grand to fly a Typhoon around a bit - fuel, maintenance, pilot and ground staff.

[SilentFlight]

You pay a contribution to the cost of travel and susbsistence for the crew for the year. The actual money you pay does not go to paying for the actual flying cost, otherwise a Typhoon would be around £90K per display venue. The insurance is required for all aircraft and again is a contribution to the total cost for the year.

Normally the Typhoon teams hotel bill works out more than the display cost!

[StevieS]

Also, the display charge is a daily charge but the insurance charge is per event, however many days. The Reds, BBMF and the Falcons take care of their own accomodation at no additional cost to the event organiser but for all the others the event has to provide B&B to minimum 3* standard, and with the Typhoon team being 17 strong, that bill can really add up over a weekend show!

[County1884]

A Typhoon costs the tax payer £60,000 per flying hour...
Makes the show charges a bargain!

[play it cool]

Perhaps you could have asked them how much it costs them to respond to flippant FOI requests which have no journalistic purpose.

Most pointless post of the day (so far)...

obviously apart from this one

Every little thing the reflex does
Leaves you answered with a question mark



I'll let myself out...

[Rich.B]

You pay a contribution to the cost of travel and susbsistence for the crew for the year. The actual money you pay does not go to paying for the actual flying cost, otherwise a Typhoon would be around £90K per display venue. The insurance is required for all aircraft and again is a contribution to the total cost for the year.

Normally the Typhoon teams hotel bill works out more than the display cost!

Big part your sponsors play I guess, asking local hotels to host the Red Arrows can be win for the airshow and the Hotel gaining accolade of having such guest stay. Would the display budget years ago come out of the recruitment budget.

[SilentFlight]

The Reds, BBMF and Falcons sort out their own HOTAC arrangements, but then they have a big enough team to sort it. Strangely hotels are the hardest to get to play ball and give discounts for shows, as event without the show booking, they can pretty much expect to sell the rooms anyway with full paying visitors!

[Gt5500]

The Reds, BBMF and Falcons sort out their own HOTAC arrangements, but then they have a big enough team to sort it. Strangely hotels are the hardest to get to play ball and give discounts for shows, as event without the show booking, they can pretty much expect to sell the rooms anyway with full paying visitors!

Of course they'd struggle to sell them if the show couldn't afford to book the acts and hence no airshow. Cutting off your nose to spite your face somewhat.