Really sad no big Lincolnshire airshows

Really sad no big Lincolnshire airshows

Postby craig.mason on Sun 26 Jan 2020, 4:24 am

I think it's really sad that with the counties rich aviation history it's called "Bomber County" is home to the BBMF REDS TYPHOON that the powers that be connotes host an airshow in the county.
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Re: Really sad no big Lincolnshire airshows

Postby Light Chop on Sun 26 Jan 2020, 9:24 am

Aside from the obvious monetary reasons why it won’t ever happen again, where would it be held?

Scampton; Closing, poor infrastructure, and didn’t do that well when they tried last time.
Waddington; Home to the RAFs ISTAR fleet, and associated challenges they present (admittedly, they were resident during the glory years too)
Coningsby; Packed to the brim with Typhoons and shortly to be training those of the QEAF.
Light Chop

Re: Really sad no big Lincolnshire airshows

Postby Unknown74 on Sun 26 Jan 2020, 3:49 pm

A little surprised Coningsby never has an Airshow, bearing in mind Leuchars had a major show and they were the same sort of base as Coningsby - Q with Phantoms, Tornado F.3s and Typhoons. Also Coningsby does have the BBMF and the Reds are based (at the moment anyway) up the road at RAF Scampton.
Unknown74

Re: Really sad no big Lincolnshire airshows

Postby Mike on Mon 27 Jan 2020, 11:28 am

Unknown74 wrote:A little surprised Coningsby never has an Airshow...

You might like to research that one a bit more. I've been to several Coningsby airshows over the years.
Mike

Re: Really sad no big Lincolnshire airshows

Postby harkins on Mon 27 Jan 2020, 11:52 am

There have been, but I think he is meaning in more recent times as he said has, not had. Wasn't the last public air show at Coningsby in 1996? And I tend to agree that given that they had held shows there in the past, and since at other similarly active bases, that Coningsby hasn't held a show quarter of a century is slightly surprising. But then again probably not as I believe the main reason for no RAF airshows is not money, operational requirements or even health and safety, it's that they simply do not want to. They just can't be arsed.
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Re: Really sad no big Lincolnshire airshows

Postby Finningley Boy on Mon 27 Jan 2020, 12:00 pm

Mike wrote:
Unknown74 wrote:A little surprised Coningsby never has an Airshow...

You might like to research that one a bit more. I've been to several Coningsby airshows over the years.

Indeed Sir, but the last one was in 1993. I suppose Unknown 74's point is why not since? Especially given the thread title and the dearth of military air shows generally.
It is certainly arguable, I'd say, that the RAF commits far less of its resource as a percentage to public demonstrations etc, than ever before. Just one "At Home" day each year and at a location which has limited capacity to say the least, albeit offset by the presence of an extensive aviation museum and plenty of maintenance training airframes. Since at least 2013, the RAF has placed much less effort and presumably much less store by air shows. Things aint what they used to be! :cuppa:

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Re: Really sad no big Lincolnshire airshows

Postby Unknown74 on Mon 27 Jan 2020, 1:21 pm

Hi Finningley Boy, yes that is exactly how I meant to phrase it, that they haven't had an Airshow in recent times in fact I wasn't personally aware that Coningsby last held a show in 1993! - honest.

So I must apologise for not being a little clearer as to what I meant.

I have been fortunate (being a Scot) to have attended 3 Airshows in Lincolnshire - 1991 at RAF Scampton, either 1995 or 1996 and 2012 at RAF Waddington so a show at Coningsby would be a complete set.
Unknown74


Re: Really sad no big Lincolnshire airshows

Postby Finningley Boy on Mon 27 Jan 2020, 1:44 pm

harkins wrote::dunno:


:dunno: what exactly Harkins dear chum? :biggrin:

Do you mean you can't quite grasp the thrust of the question posed or simply can't respond with an interesting answer? :cuppa:

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I have danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings!
Finningley Boy

Re: Really sad no big Lincolnshire airshows

Postby harkins on Mon 27 Jan 2020, 5:39 pm

Neither really, just unsure as to whether my post that preceded yours by about 8 minutes had not submitted properly.
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harkins

Re: Really sad no big Lincolnshire airshows

Postby Finningley Boy on Mon 27 Jan 2020, 9:44 pm

harkins wrote:Neither really, just unsure as to whether my post that preceded yours by about 8 minutes had not submitted properly.

I think you're spot on I hadn't read this post prior. Regarding Coningsby, I think the last actual open day was in June 1993, any events following were likely families days.

FB :biggrin:
I have danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings!
Finningley Boy

Re: Really sad no big Lincolnshire airshows

Postby Rich.B on Wed 29 Jan 2020, 6:11 pm

The reason the RAF used to put airshows on was mainly part of the recruitment
Side of things and budget.
Think today though we spend about £10 million a year on recruitment, sadly i think its in private hands today.
Rich.B

Re: Really sad no big Lincolnshire airshows

Postby 106500 on Wed 29 Jan 2020, 6:58 pm

harkins wrote:There have been, but I think he is meaning in more recent times as he said has, not had. Wasn't the last public air show at Coningsby in 1996? And I tend to agree that given that they had held shows there in the past, and since at other similarly active bases, that Coningsby hasn't held a show quarter of a century is slightly surprising. But then again probably not as I believe the main reason for no RAF airshows is not money, operational requirements or even health and safety, it's that they simply do not want to. They just can't be arsed.


You've hit the nail on the head and I absolutely agree with you - its almost a state of mind or even the established culture that airshows are 'old hat' and just too much trouble or at least an inconvenience. Its quite hard to fathom especially as the US airforces (our closest ally?) seems to embrace air displays and indeed take pride in holding these as a public celebration of their air power. One can only be pessimistic about the future here in the UK - just how long will Cosford last and will we then be left with RIAT - and then just how long will that show be around before 'unacceptable airbase security concerns' for example are cited? The RN is no different; Culdrose scrapped and only Yeovilton now left. My greatest fear is that health and safety risks will be used as a convenient excuse i.e. in the 21st century it is simply too risky to have planes speeding about the sky in front of the masses? But then maybe I'm just being paranoid now! :roll:
106500

Re: Really sad no big Lincolnshire airshows

Postby Rich.B on Wed 29 Jan 2020, 11:23 pm

Still thinks it down too the recruiting budget being £495million to private firm capita.
They must hold the purse strings on things like RAF recruiting, do the RAF ask for special painted jets for airshows to aid recruitment.
Do capita then sit down and say cheap way is send them some stickers to put on, keep cost down so we can keep paying big dividens to our share holders.
So say a base commander wants to put on an airshow at is base and does not have a budget anymore and have to ask or go through captia.
Then you can see this firm is not going to cough up any money for this. Shareholders 1st
Any money left you can have a sticker for your jet. Airshow you got no chance.
Rich.B

Re: Really sad no big Lincolnshire airshows

Postby SilentFlight on Thu 30 Jan 2020, 11:42 am

The cost of Waddington was around £1.8 - £2 Million to stage each year. The cost to the RAF came in the form of fuel, personnel and resources. Everything else (including civilian flying displays, civilian flying fuel, civilian static fuel, all crews accommodation etc) was paid for by self generated revenue (sponsorship, ticket sales, trade stands etc). The RAF recruiting budget was not allowed to be used nor was it offered. As has already been said before, Waddington, Cosford, RIAT still had to pay for RAF assets to attend including additional insurance to the MOD.

They are not cheap events, but still believe there is a huge benefit to recruitment, engagement and providing an undertsanding in general to the public in greater detail than the recruiters can provide on their own. Sadly my views are not shared elsewhere, unlike the rest of the world which seem to grasp the concept with both hands.
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SilentFlight

Re: Really sad no big Lincolnshire airshows

Postby XP282 on Thu 30 Jan 2020, 4:14 pm

Can we please dispel the myth that Scampton failed because of poor infrastructure?

No one who went to Scampton had a poor experience because of the infrastructure. Scampton failed because it didn't sell enough tickets, and this was largely because it was over priced and being run by people who think they know best - Personally I don't think they did know best hence it failed where Waddington would have succeeded. On top of that, many of those people who did go felt that they had paid too much for what was on offer.

Many of the organising team felt that they had to organise Scampton in the same way as they organise RIAT which mean that I personally had to retract an invitation from a very interesting USN contact and was precluded from directing inviting a member from the Polish Air Force. There were great links between that (Polish) squadron and Lincolnshire and should the invite have got through, I personally feel sure that it would have been well received. Unfortunately I was quite clearly told that thats 'not how its done' anymore and they never received an invitation. Yes, the invitations for to the embassy / defence attache but they don't get through too every squadron. It was certainly very embarrassing to have to tell a good friend in the USN that I was having to withdraw the invitation. Personally (however long a shot it was!) I think a USN Gosshawk parked next to a Hawk T1 would have looked great... better still a C-2 off a carrier in the Med! Yes, long shots but if you don't invite then there is no chance!!!!!

Of course thats just my opinion and others may view things differently but thats how I see it! Shame.
XP282

Re: Really sad no big Lincolnshire airshows

Postby andrewn on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 9:55 pm

Airshows are on borrowed time in the UK, unfortunately. The reasons are threefold in my opinion:

1. The relentless downsizing of the armed forces means they are less able to either host or support proper open days and airshows like they used to. The knock on impact of this to the civvy run shows is massive as much of the core of their flypro (and statics) no longer exists.
2. A dearth of suitable venues. Too many airfields have been allowed to close and those that do exist are either too busy or simply unsuitable for large scale airshows. There's little to no government interest or support for preserving our aviation heritage or promoting the armed services in the ways that we are all used to. It's all about the bottom line, with our heritage simply sold off to the highest bidder in the name of short term profit.
3. Shoreham. The nail in the coffin for civvy run airshows and vintage jets. The costs and admin burden associated with owning and displaying aircraft and certifying an airshow venue just make it all too much hard work.

Scampton airfield is a great case in point. A fantastic asset that could and should be preserved for future generations and developed as a multi-use aviation centre of excellence, part public part private. Instead the history will be trashed so a few thousand more toytown homes can be thrown up - because that's what we call progress :wall:
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andrewn

Re: Really sad no big Lincolnshire airshows

Postby NAM Updater on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 10:30 pm

Here's the most recent announcement about RAF Scampton from just last week!

https://thelincolnite.co.uk/2020/01/100 ... pton-plan/
Howard Heeley - Newark Air Museum Trustee
4th April 2020 - Indoor Aeroboot/Aerojumble
http://newarkairmuseum.org
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NAM Updater

Re: Really sad no big Lincolnshire airshows

Postby farnboroughrob on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 8:45 am

I think our armed forces in general have lost the knowledge and desire to hold airshows. It cost a great deal of money, disrupts the bases routine for a couple of weeks and is just genrally seen as a ball ache. On a tour of Middle Wallop a couple of years ago I asked about airshows (last one mid 90's?) and it was down to many issues most of all the station CO wasn't interested, he had never been to one, too much hassle.
I would love to see a return of the 'at home' days. Have the families day on Friday and a public day on saturday. Not a massive event but hangars open showing what the base does, couple of Typhoons, helicopters, hawk/Phenom/Texan/Juno, Tutor a large transport on static with something from NATO and the odd warbird. Reds, Typhoon/F-35, Tutor, helicopter, BBMF and demo of local assets flying. Simples.
farnboroughrob


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