Bruntingthorpe Closure?

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GertrudetheMerciless
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

There’s an excellent post over on FighterControl which puts some perspective on the situation, given the Walton bashing occurring in some areas of social media.

DOUGHNUT
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by DOUGHNUT »

Hi Gertrude...
Think you may be referring to my post on FC, happy to repost it here.

Bruntingthorpe did have a good business plan and a continuing aviation future. Several things have stopped it happening. I brief timeline of events.

1) David Walton (and family) save the Vulcan and gave XH558 a good home for many years before plans were hatched, by others, to return it to airworthy condition.
2) The Walton family business provided hangars to restore XH558, they passed ownership to VTTS, it flew never to return, a sad day and possibly the start of the end ?
3) VTTS and Heritage Lottery pump millions into one aircraft.
4) Plans were made to have a "Cold War Museum" at Bruntingthorpe to bring together Lightning, Buccaneer and all the other groups together. The Local Authority refused permission and Heritage Lottery would not support it because it had already pumped millions into XH558 and Cosford.
5) Bruntingthorpe were continually fighting the Local Authority and the NIBBY landowners who did not want any form of aviation actively, limiting the opening hours of the small museum and the number of running days, even motor sport days were restricted.
6) General airfield operations severely limited and the use of the airfield for private flying, aviation storage, maintenance and reclaim (scrapping) also restricted. Again by the Local Authority and NIBBY who feared expansion into commercial freight and scheduled services. Something I doubt the runway could have supported.
7) The writing was on the wall when the aircraft reclaim business was transferred elsewhere.
8) The airfield owners have a business to run, many obstacles have been put in their way to stop that business including aviation.

Just to say that theses are my personal views and I am happy to stand corrected.
Paul

Ant.H
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by Ant.H »

Sticking my neck out into the slipstream of the discussion...

I'll start by saying that I don't mean any ill-will towards anyone involved with CWJC and the the various groups that it's made up of, I feel very deeply about aviation heritage and all the effort that goes into it at Brunty and everywhere else. I'm really hoping for some sort of positive outcome to the current situation.

That said, CWJC has always seemed more of a concept than a reality, being made up of the various individual Bucc, Lightning etc groups. As far as I'm aware, it doesn't have Charitable Status or some of the other endorsements that many museums and groups can wave in the faces of local government when things get sticky. Apologies if I've got that wrong, but I've never seen Charitable Status associated with the group or a reference number etc.

I can't help feeling that some form of centralised unity is required to properly represent the heritage value of the collection. I realise that many people have put blood, sweat, tears and buckets of money into running the jets, and I don't mean to denigrate that effort, but when it comes to dealing with threats of development or changes of land use etc, it's much better to have a plan and a sense of official organisation to face the threat with. At the moment the situation seems to be that there are a number of smaller groups under the umbrella of a "thingy" called CWJC.

Perhaps some of the smaller aircraft can be moved relatively easily, but things like the Vic, Nimrod, VC-10 etc are at Brunty for good (yes, perhaps they can be dismantled and moved but A) Massive expense B) They'd probably have to be cut up to a degree C) Where would they even move to? D) Would the new location be any more long-term secure?). There has to be a "Stop" point somewhere, a nomadic outlook for large aircraft isn't really tenable. Looking at the list of aircraft at Brunty, it's one heck of a spectrum of aviation heritage and it would be great if some or all of the aircraft (especially large ones) could be kept at Brunty long-term.

I should state that I'm not involved with CWJC/Brunty in any way and the above is just how I see things from the outside perspective. Please do correct me if/where I've got things wrong.

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HeyfordDave111
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by HeyfordDave111 »

The only way i see it, to have a long term guarantee of survival for all these airframes (if movable) would be to own the airfield.

These wouldnt, i imagine, come cheap, but it would be the only sure fire way in my opinion.

Scampton being the obvious choice, hangars, buildings, housing, space, and relatively easy access for events and minor airshows / displays / open days.

So, where to get the dosh from? Some rich philanthrapist? A lottery winner (god knows there are enough of them and one must be an enthusiast who wants to leave a huge legacy to the country) or we do it between us?

The last is a non starter, after all, i dont think there are enough of us out here to even pay for advertising, let alone a whole airfield.

Basically when you weigh it up, all at Brunty are pretty much screwed now, but in saying so we must collectively thank David Walton for looking after 558, and giving a home to all the other aircraft currently there. For that i salute you, if your reading this David.
The way forward needs people with vision, drive and preferrably money.
I fear the worst, but really hope for the best.
Got to love Russianhardware

GertrudetheMerciless
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

DOUGHNUT wrote:
Thu 04 Jun 2020, 8:11 am
Hi Gertrude...
Think you may be referring to my post on FC, happy to repost it here.
Indeed I am Paul! :grinning:

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Archer
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by Archer »

Based on statements that have emerged over the past couple of days, the TBAG group is moving to Kemble, David Walton is trying to put up buildings to house aircraft next to the 'Q' shed, just outside of the airfield (he owns the Comet, Nimrod and Victor) and the VC10s have been asked to leave by October. I don't know details about the other based aircraft and/or groups.

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CJS
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by CJS »

Archer wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020, 9:56 am
Based on statements that have emerged over the past couple of days, the TBAG group is moving to Kemble, David Walton is trying to put up buildings to house aircraft next to the 'Q' shed, just outside of the airfield (he owns the Comet, Nimrod and Victor) and the VC10s have been asked to leave by October. I don't know details about the other based aircraft and/or groups.
So is there anything at all that can be flown out?
With just the slightest bit of finesse, I might have made a little less mess.

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Burleysway
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by Burleysway »

CJS wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020, 11:04 am
Archer wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020, 9:56 am
Based on statements that have emerged over the past couple of days, the TBAG group is moving to Kemble, David Walton is trying to put up buildings to house aircraft next to the 'Q' shed, just outside of the airfield (he owns the Comet, Nimrod and Victor) and the VC10s have been asked to leave by October. I don't know details about the other based aircraft and/or groups.
So is there anything at all that can be flown out?
Just the Meteor I believe

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vulcanshammer
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by vulcanshammer »

Burleysway wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020, 11:09 am
CJS wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020, 11:04 am
Archer wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020, 9:56 am
Based on statements that have emerged over the past couple of days, the TBAG group is moving to Kemble, David Walton is trying to put up buildings to house aircraft next to the 'Q' shed, just outside of the airfield (he owns the Comet, Nimrod and Victor) and the VC10s have been asked to leave by October. I don't know details about the other based aircraft and/or groups.
So is there anything at all that can be flown out?
Just the Meteor I believe
Has that got the airworthy engines in it or available to it? I thought they were taken out?
The sooner the world runs out of cotton wool the better

GeeRam
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by GeeRam »

Burleysway wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020, 11:09 am
CJS wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020, 11:04 am
Archer wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020, 9:56 am
Based on statements that have emerged over the past couple of days, the TBAG group is moving to Kemble, David Walton is trying to put up buildings to house aircraft next to the 'Q' shed, just outside of the airfield (he owns the Comet, Nimrod and Victor) and the VC10s have been asked to leave by October. I don't know details about the other based aircraft and/or groups.
So is there anything at all that can be flown out?
Just the Meteor I believe
I doubt it!

GertrudetheMerciless
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

GeeRam wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020, 1:39 pm
Burleysway wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020, 11:09 am
CJS wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020, 11:04 am
Archer wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020, 9:56 am
Based on statements that have emerged over the past couple of days, the TBAG group is moving to Kemble, David Walton is trying to put up buildings to house aircraft next to the 'Q' shed, just outside of the airfield (he owns the Comet, Nimrod and Victor) and the VC10s have been asked to leave by October. I don't know details about the other based aircraft and/or groups.
So is there anything at all that can be flown out?
Just the Meteor I believe
I doubt it!
It had its airworthy engines removed post arrival as (IIRC) they weren’t part of the sale (I assume they went stateside to join the T7).

ostrich74
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by ostrich74 »

The Shackleton is now on the move too.
Off to South Wales Aviation museum with GJD services beginning her dismantling this week.
Member of The Buccaneer Aviation Group, Bruntingthorpe.

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jasonT1981
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by jasonT1981 »

Would the Tri-Stars be able to fly out?

DOUGHNUT
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by DOUGHNUT »

With positive action being taken by several aircraft owners to relocate aircraft from Bruntingthorpe believe now would be a good time to review exactly who owns what. The list below is taken from UK Demobbed.

KF532 Harvard IIB cockpit (Restoration)
WM167 Meteor TT20 G-LOSM Private
WP845 Chipmunk T10 PAX
WR974 Shackleton MR3 Preserved (noted as being moved by GJD to StAthan
WT333 Canberra B6(mod) G-BVXC Preserved in running condition
WT806 Hunter GA11 Museum, outside
XJ494 Sea Vixen FAW2 Museum, outside
XL565 Hawker Hunter T7 Museum, outside
XM365 Jet Provost T3A Museum, outside
XM715 Victor K2 Preserved in running condition
XN582 Jet Provost T3A Private
XP540 Gnat T1 Private
XP703 Lightning F3 (C), 74 Sqn marks Private
XR713 Lightning F3 C, 56 and 111 Sqn marks, wears 'XR718' Preserved
XR728 Lightning F6 JS, LTF marks Private in running condition
XS235 Comet 4C G-CPDA Preserved in running condition
XS904 Lightning F6 BQ, 11 Sqn marks Private in running condition
XV226 Nimrod MR2 Special marks Preserved in running condition
XV328 Lightning T5 (N) Preserved
XW290 Jet Provost T5A Museum, outside
XW544 Buccaneer S2B O, 16 Sqn marks Private
XW550 Buccaneer S2B (N), 16 Sqn marks Private
XX145 Jaguar T2A ETPS marks Private
XX894 Buccaneer S2B R-020, 809 NAS marks Preserved
XX900 Buccaneer S2B 237 OCU marks Preserved
XZ382 Jaguar GR1 Preserved, entrance
ZA147 VC10 K3 F W.f.u.
ZD241 VC10 K4 N Preserved in running condition
ZD948 TriStar KC1 948, N304CS W.f.u.
ZD950 TriStar KC1 950, N405CS W.f.u.
ZD951 TriStar K1 951, N309CS W.f.u.
ZD953 TriStar KC1 953, N705CS W.f.u.
ZE704 TriStar C2 704, N507CS W.f.u.
ZE705 TriStar C2 705, N703CS W.f.u.
ZF590 Lightning F53 (C) Museum, outside
ZF595 Lightning T55 Cockpit Private

DOUGHNUT
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by DOUGHNUT »

Hopefully the LPG Lightnings are safe.
TBAG are moving the two Buccaneers, but what about the the none runners, are they apart of the proposed move ?
Cockpits should find a good home, either within whatever secure museum site appears because of David Walton efforts.
Sadly I expect Cox Automotive will chase the smaller preservation groups with threats to remove their aircraft whilst they allow the Tristars to gather dust, or should that be rust ?

GeeRam
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by GeeRam »

DOUGHNUT wrote:
Wed 17 Jun 2020, 9:54 am
With positive action being taken by several aircraft owners to relocate aircraft from Bruntingthorpe believe now would be a good time to review exactly who owns what. The list below is taken from UK Demobbed.

KF532 Harvard IIB cockpit (Restoration)
WM167 Meteor TT20 G-LOSM Private
WP845 Chipmunk T10 PAX
WR974 Shackleton MR3 Preserved (noted as being moved by GJD to StAthan
WT333 Canberra B6(mod) G-BVXC Preserved in running condition
WT806 Hunter GA11 Museum, outside
XJ494 Sea Vixen FAW2 Museum, outside
XL565 Hawker Hunter T7 Museum, outside
XM365 Jet Provost T3A Museum, outside
XM715 Victor K2 Preserved in running condition
XN582 Jet Provost T3A Private
XP540 Gnat T1 Private
XP703 Lightning F3 (C), 74 Sqn marks Private
XR713 Lightning F3 C, 56 and 111 Sqn marks, wears 'XR718' Preserved
XR728 Lightning F6 JS, LTF marks Private in running condition
XS235 Comet 4C G-CPDA Preserved in running condition
XS904 Lightning F6 BQ, 11 Sqn marks Private in running condition
XV226 Nimrod MR2 Special marks Preserved in running condition
XV328 Lightning T5 (N) Preserved
XW290 Jet Provost T5A Museum, outside
XW544 Buccaneer S2B O, 16 Sqn marks Private
XW550 Buccaneer S2B (N), 16 Sqn marks Private
XX145 Jaguar T2A ETPS marks Private
XX894 Buccaneer S2B R-020, 809 NAS marks Preserved
XX900 Buccaneer S2B 237 OCU marks Preserved
XZ382 Jaguar GR1 Preserved, entrance
ZA147 VC10 K3 F W.f.u.
ZD241 VC10 K4 N Preserved in running condition
ZD948 TriStar KC1 948, N304CS W.f.u.
ZD950 TriStar KC1 950, N405CS W.f.u.
ZD951 TriStar K1 951, N309CS W.f.u.
ZD953 TriStar KC1 953, N705CS W.f.u.
ZE704 TriStar C2 704, N507CS W.f.u.
ZE705 TriStar C2 705, N703CS W.f.u.
ZF590 Lightning F53 (C) Museum, outside
ZF595 Lightning T55 Cockpit Private
Who owns the Super Guppy, which is missing from that list?

TEXANTOMCAT
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by TEXANTOMCAT »

KF532 is at Sywell 🙂

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NAM Updater
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by NAM Updater »

That's the first alt for Wrecks & Relics 28 - nice to see that KF532 is safe at Sywell.

Wrecks & Relics 27 now in stock at NAM!! :innocent:

http://www.newarkairmuseum.org/NAM_Shop_To_Re-Open
Howard Heeley - Newark Air Museum Trustee
http://newarkairmuseum.org

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Sven
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by Sven »

DOUGHNUT wrote:
Wed 17 Jun 2020, 9:54 am
With positive action being taken by several aircraft owners to relocate aircraft from Bruntingthorpe believe now would be a good time to review exactly who owns what. The list below is taken from UK Demobbed.

KF532 Harvard IIB cockpit (Restoration)
WM167 Meteor TT20 G-LOSM Private
WP845 Chipmunk T10 PAX
WR974 Shackleton MR3 Preserved (noted as being moved by GJD to StAthan
WT333 Canberra B6(mod) G-BVXC Preserved in running condition
WT806 Hunter GA11 Museum, outside
XJ494 Sea Vixen FAW2 Museum, outside
XL565 Hawker Hunter T7 Museum, outside
XM365 Jet Provost T3A Museum, outside
XM715 Victor K2 Preserved in running condition
XN582 Jet Provost T3A Private
XP540 Gnat T1 Private
XP703 Lightning F3 (C), 74 Sqn marks Private
XR713 Lightning F3 C, 56 and 111 Sqn marks, wears 'XR718' Preserved
XR728 Lightning F6 JS, LTF marks Private in running condition
XS235 Comet 4C G-CPDA Preserved in running condition
XS904 Lightning F6 BQ, 11 Sqn marks Private in running condition
XV226 Nimrod MR2 Special marks Preserved in running condition
XV328 Lightning T5 (N) Preserved
XW290 Jet Provost T5A Museum, outside
XW544 Buccaneer S2B O, 16 Sqn marks Private
XW550 Buccaneer S2B (N), 16 Sqn marks Private
XX145 Jaguar T2A ETPS marks Private
XX894 Buccaneer S2B R-020, 809 NAS marks Preserved
XX900 Buccaneer S2B 237 OCU marks Preserved
XZ382 Jaguar GR1 Preserved, entrance
ZA147 VC10 K3 F W.f.u.
ZD241 VC10 K4 N Preserved in running condition
ZD948 TriStar KC1 948, N304CS W.f.u.
ZD950 TriStar KC1 950, N405CS W.f.u.
ZD951 TriStar K1 951, N309CS W.f.u.
ZD953 TriStar KC1 953, N705CS W.f.u.
ZE704 TriStar C2 704, N507CS W.f.u.
ZE705 TriStar C2 705, N703CS W.f.u.
ZF590 Lightning F53 (C) Museum, outside
ZF595 Lightning T55 Cockpit Private

To add a small update to the list, XW544, XX894 and XW550 will be moved to Kemble by TBAG, if sufficient funds can be raised. Link below:

https://www.facebook.com/Tbagbruntingthorpe

XP282
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by XP282 »

Burleysway wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020, 11:09 am
CJS wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020, 11:04 am
Archer wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020, 9:56 am
Based on statements that have emerged over the past couple of days, the TBAG group is moving to Kemble, David Walton is trying to put up buildings to house aircraft next to the 'Q' shed, just outside of the airfield (he owns the Comet, Nimrod and Victor) and the VC10s have been asked to leave by October. I don't know details about the other based aircraft and/or groups.
So is there anything at all that can be flown out?
Just the Meteor I believe
The Meteors permit has since expired. Without an approved maintenance facility on site to renew the permit, there no way she will be able to fly out.

DOUGHNUT
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by DOUGHNUT »

The Supper Guppy. Indeed the UK Demobbed list did not include the civil aircraft. How many scrappy airliners are still present ?

GertrudetheMerciless
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

DOUGHNUT wrote:
Wed 17 Jun 2020, 5:10 pm
The Supper Guppy. Indeed the UK Demobbed list did not include the civil aircraft. How many scrappy airliners are still present ?
737 fuselage at the Gilmorton end, the ex-Olympic 747 and the two ex-Transaero 747s.

hedgerowops1
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by hedgerowops1 »

Don't forget F104 22+35 and Iskara 1018

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Archer
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by Archer »

XM715 Victor K2
XS235 Comet 4C G-CPDA
XV226 Nimrod MR2
Owned by David Walton

ZA147 VC10 K3 F
ZD241 VC10 K4 N
Owned by GJD Services, cared for by VC10 Preservation Group

WT333 Canberra B6(mod) G-BVXC
Privately owned by a small group.

The Tristars were initially sold to Tempus Applied Solutions, but the company name and organisation structure has changed since. Maintained in servicable condition by GJD Services. As these airframes are part of a commercial contract, the onus for finding a solution for them is with the owners if you ask me.

Without wanting to belittle the problems for other owners/carers/operators, the other, smaller, types will be able to leave the site on a lorry if needed. The ones above will have to be taken apart to a significant degree if they need to leave. As the first three are owned by David Walton, I expect these to find a home next to the Q shed outside of the airfield. That leaves the VC10s and Canberra (and perhaps the Guppy) as the airframes most at risk. But that's just my two cents of course.

DOUGHNUT
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by DOUGHNUT »

Thank you Archer just the sort of response I was hoping for.
Interesting that the VC-10's are still owned by GJD, hopefully a successful out come will see ZD241 "stored" alongside the Davis Walton's collection.
Agreed the smaller aircraft could be moved, but do their owners have the money and more importantly a secure location to relocate to ?

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