Bruntingthorpe Closure?

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GeeRam
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by GeeRam »

Cole wrote:
Thu 09 Jul 2020, 5:37 pm
TonyC wrote:
Thu 09 Jul 2020, 3:21 pm
GertrudetheMerciless wrote:
Wed 08 Jul 2020, 7:47 pm
...but until the axe falls there are still some aircraft that could potentially fly out on a one flight ferry.
Which aircraft could potential fly out, hope Canopus is one?
Wasnt there a contract for the Tristars in the US?
Sort of an AirTanker kind of deal ?
Yep.

The 6 x Tristar’s are owned by Tristar Air LLC, who in April 2019 won the competitive tender for the 2020 USN AAR single award contract (for which they wanted the Tristars) against the current contractor Omega Air Refueling who only had 2 x KC-707 and a single KDC-10.
Omega protested twice regarding how the ‘competition’ was run. USN then cancelled the contract award to Tristar LLC and announced they would pursue a multiple award contract. Omega and Tristar are the only two ‘private contract’ AAR companies with a hose n drogue AAR fleet suitable for the USN.
The 'new' USN contract proposal after draft issue, was only issued just last month, with a deadline for submission of only 2 days ago, 8th July, so if as expected Tristar LLC are jointly awarded the USN contract with Omega, there could soon be some serious activity around the Tristars in the coming weeks or months in prep for their departure. Rumour is Tristar LLC have been very recently trawling around ex-RAF Tristar people around BZZ area scouting for people.

GertrudetheMerciless
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

TonyC wrote:
Thu 09 Jul 2020, 3:21 pm
GertrudetheMerciless wrote:
Wed 08 Jul 2020, 7:47 pm
...but until the axe falls there are still some aircraft that could potentially fly out on a one flight ferry.
Which aircraft could potential fly out, hope Canopus is one?
Canopus? Not a hope.

Vague chance the TriStars and one of the VC10s could fly (they’ve had anti-det run and ZD241 has kept relatively live), although if the dates being mentioned are true a few months notice might have made it easier for the owners.

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TonyC
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by TonyC »

GertrudetheMerciless wrote:
Sat 11 Jul 2020, 1:43 pm
TonyC wrote:
Thu 09 Jul 2020, 3:21 pm
GertrudetheMerciless wrote:
Wed 08 Jul 2020, 7:47 pm
...but until the axe falls there are still some aircraft that could potentially fly out on a one flight ferry.
Which aircraft could potential fly out, hope Canopus is one?
Canopus? Not a hope.
Having asked the question, I did have a quiet moment at work last night and had a quick look and hadn't realised that she had needed a fair amount of work, just to get her back into taxiable condition in 2018.

Hope that she will have a secure future!
...and pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in Space cos there's bugger all down here on Earth!

TheMaster
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by TheMaster »

Here is what it looked like today. That's a lot of cars to move but an empty Tristar wouldn't need the full length.

https://ibb.co/9trH8qL
https://ibb.co/FHZNW6Y

GertrudetheMerciless
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

TheMaster wrote:
Sun 12 Jul 2020, 9:36 pm
Here is what it looked like today. That's a lot of cars to move but an empty Tristar wouldn't need the full length.

https://ibb.co/9trH8qL
https://ibb.co/FHZNW6Y
If required the runway could be cleared in a few days.

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2e1var
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by 2e1var »

From the facebook page, such a shame.

Cancellation of Cold War Jets open day August 2020.
Following the acquisition of C.Walton Ltd and a lease of land at Bruntingthorpe by Cox Automotive UK Ltd. The August open day will not take place. This brings to an end many years of Cold War Jets Open days.
This news will be a huge disappointment to aviation enthusiasts across the UK and worldwide. Every aircraft based a Bruntingthorpe has its own unique and distinguished history which has been preserved by teams of dedicated volunteers.
Bruntingthorpe has been the focal point of UK jet aviation preservation for over 30 years. Many amazing aircraft have been saved, restored and maintained in fast taxi condition.
Some of the historic aircraft made their final flights into Bruntingthorpe, the last being Armstrong Whitworth Meteor NF11 WM167 in January 2019 and of course one returned to flight in the case of two Canberra’s, an ex Swiss hunter and of course Avro Vulcan XH558.
We the volunteers of the Cold War Jets Collection would like thank Mr David Walton for his continued support and hope you will support the future of aviation heritage at Bruntingthorpe.
Cold War Jets Collection
UBC-15X, VT-225, Pro-2006, FTM-100, IC-7300, IC-7100, ID-31E, FT-2DE
Sony a58, Tamron SP 70-300

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XL391
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by XL391 »

Lightning Preservation Group - Update

A meeting was held at Bruntingthorpe today involving David Walton, the LPG and other Cold War Jet owners and operating teams. The purpose of the meeting was to discuss the future of the aircraft remaining at Bruntingthorpe following the sale of C Walton Ltd to Cox Automotive who now lease and control most of the site.

The first update is that there will not be a CWJ Open Day in August. There was a hope that the open day would take place but a combination of the volume of cars and ongoing fallout from Covid-19 means that this cannot happen. Bad news for all of us who enjoyed those fantastic events but I think most people out there knew that this was the likely outcome.

There is an area of land owned by David Walton that is not part of the site leased to Cox and fortunately the LPG Q shed is situated on this land. The Q shed and aircraft can remain there and that is our intention. We plan to maintain the 2 F6 aircraft in fully operational condition as they currently are. We plan to continue with anti-det runs although we may be constrained to running at low power settings in the longer term.

The area to the right and rear of the Q shed has been earmarked by David Walton as an area for parking the other jets that are remaining but much work remains to be done for this to happen. In the longer term, it may be possible to obtain funding for hangar construction but in the meantime preservation of the jets is the priority. Cox Automotive intend to erect a security fence around the area that I've discussed so we would no longer have access to the aircraft area from the main site. Separate access would be required from Bath Lane.

I fully appreciate that this is far away from being good news but the option of moving the Q shed and Lightnings would be a monumental and expensive task. The work involved in dismantling the aircraft, transporting them and reassembling in an operational condition doesn't bear thinking about.

Dennis Brooks, Chairman, Lightning Preservation Group

GeeRam
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by GeeRam »

Was expected in the current climate......but

It would have been nice to have signed off with a Last, Last Lightning Runway Run at Brunty, 33 years to the month after the Last, Last Lightning Show at Binners :cry:

All good things as they say etc.....

At least the Buccs might still get to stretch their legs at Kemble for a good few more years to come if they can raise the funds for the move their.

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2e1var
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by 2e1var »

I note there is a project on the way to move the VC-10's, given the cost to the Buccaneer group i suspect it's a little ambitious.
https://www.facebook.com/VC10RescueGroup
UBC-15X, VT-225, Pro-2006, FTM-100, IC-7300, IC-7100, ID-31E, FT-2DE
Sony a58, Tamron SP 70-300

106500
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by 106500 »

It might be wishful thinking but the second hand car market is a fickle beast and who can say just how long the present apparently lucrative storage business may last? It could be that in, say five or so years time the bottom falls out of the market and companies like Cox either fold or move on to other activities. In such an event can we but hope that things can revert back to some semblance to that we have enjoyed for so long? In any event it’s pleasing to learn that the Lightning’s are secure for now even if they’ll be penned in and unable to stretch their legs. Finally it’s been said before but what a relief a certain Cold War jet bomber didn’t make its final journey there - I for one am grateful for that small mercy!

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HeyfordDave111
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by HeyfordDave111 »

yup, i for one, despite pleading (almost on a daily basis) for Brunty to have the tin triangle languishing next to a crap farm in south yorkshire, realise it has, despite the passing years since it did practically anything, dodged the bullet.

Unfortunately i cannot now see any future for Brunty, and i can see more airframes departing sooner or later, but needing to be displayed on the ground, or running, or as part of an easily accessible collection.
Got to love Russianhardware

GertrudetheMerciless
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

HeyfordDave111 wrote:
Mon 13 Jul 2020, 6:37 pm
yup, i for one, despite pleading (almost on a daily basis) for Brunty to have the tin triangle languishing next to a crap farm in south yorkshire, realise it has, despite the passing years since it did practically anything, dodged the bullet.

Unfortunately i cannot now see any future for Brunty, and i can see more airframes departing sooner or later, but needing to be displayed on the ground, or running, or as part of an easily accessible collection.
Had a certain tin triangle retired to Brunty I think the current situation may have been very different; in fact there may already have been a facility for classic jets being built.

Sadly, bridges were burned, and I don’t think it was ever considered. We may have had many joyful years of a flying Vulcan, but the after effects may be being felt now.

Domvickery
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by Domvickery »

GertrudetheMerciless wrote:
Mon 13 Jul 2020, 7:48 pm
HeyfordDave111 wrote:
Mon 13 Jul 2020, 6:37 pm
yup, i for one, despite pleading (almost on a daily basis) for Brunty to have the tin triangle languishing next to a crap farm in south yorkshire, realise it has, despite the passing years since it did practically anything, dodged the bullet.

Unfortunately i cannot now see any future for Brunty, and i can see more airframes departing sooner or later, but needing to be displayed on the ground, or running, or as part of an easily accessible collection.
Had a certain tin triangle retired to Brunty I think the current situation may have been very different; in fact there may already have been a facility for classic jets being built.

Sadly, bridges were burned, and I don’t think it was ever considered. We may have had many joyful years of a flying Vulcan, but the after effects may be being felt now.
I agree, if XH558 would've gone there they could've built their maintenance/tourist center, regularly taxied bringing in money for the airfield, put funds towards the Canberra & operated it from there, Bruntingthorpe could've been the Duxford for classic jets

But please, let's not turn this into a 558 discussion
Free straws available to clutch at - PM me. Inventor of the baguette scale

106500
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by 106500 »

Domvickery wrote:
Mon 13 Jul 2020, 8:10 pm
GertrudetheMerciless wrote:
Mon 13 Jul 2020, 7:48 pm
HeyfordDave111 wrote:
Mon 13 Jul 2020, 6:37 pm
yup, i for one, despite pleading (almost on a daily basis) for Brunty to have the tin triangle languishing next to a crap farm in south yorkshire, realise it has, despite the passing years since it did practically anything, dodged the bullet.

Unfortunately i cannot now see any future for Brunty, and i can see more airframes departing sooner or later, but needing to be displayed on the ground, or running, or as part of an easily accessible collection.
Had a certain tin triangle retired to Brunty I think the current situation may have been very different; in fact there may already have been a facility for classic jets being built.

Sadly, bridges were burned, and I don’t think it was ever considered. We may have had many joyful years of a flying Vulcan, but the after effects may be being felt now.
I agree, if XH558 would've gone there they could've built their maintenance/tourist center, regularly taxied bringing in money for the airfield, put funds towards the Canberra & operated it from there, Bruntingthorpe could've been the Duxford for classic jets

But please, let's not turn this into a 558 discussion

106500
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by 106500 »

106500 wrote:
Mon 13 Jul 2020, 9:02 pm
Domvickery wrote:
Mon 13 Jul 2020, 8:10 pm
GertrudetheMerciless wrote:
Mon 13 Jul 2020, 7:48 pm
HeyfordDave111 wrote:
Mon 13 Jul 2020, 6:37 pm
yup, i for one, despite pleading (almost on a daily basis) for Brunty to have the tin triangle languishing next to a crap farm in south yorkshire, realise it has, despite the passing years since it did practically anything, dodged the bullet.

Unfortunately i cannot now see any future for Brunty, and i can see more airframes departing sooner or later, but needing to be displayed on the ground, or running, or as part of an easily accessible collection.
Had a certain tin triangle retired to Brunty I think the current situation may have been very different; in fact there may already have been a facility for classic jets being built.

Sadly, bridges were burned, and I don’t think it was ever considered. We may have had many joyful years of a flying Vulcan, but the after effects may be being felt now.
I agree, if XH558 would've gone there they could've built their maintenance/tourist center, regularly taxied bringing in money for the airfield, put funds towards the Canberra & operated it from there, Bruntingthorpe could've been the Duxford for classic jets

But please, let's not turn this into a 558 discussion
An interesting notion but realistically I think the obstacles to such arrangements enduring would probably have become insurmountable. For example, the local populace were quite virulent in their opposition to the operation of the jets (in addition to to the car ‘track days’). I recall the Lightning guys had a real nightmare relating to this some years ago. For taxy days to have become more frequent would most likely have created uproar I fear. Also I suspect that the significant financial attraction of car storage has become an unstoppable juggernaut and even if an engineering centre had been established, it would have probably been overtaken by events.

GertrudetheMerciless
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

Domvickery wrote:
Mon 13 Jul 2020, 8:10 pm
GertrudetheMerciless wrote:
Mon 13 Jul 2020, 7:48 pm
HeyfordDave111 wrote:
Mon 13 Jul 2020, 6:37 pm
yup, i for one, despite pleading (almost on a daily basis) for Brunty to have the tin triangle languishing next to a crap farm in south yorkshire, realise it has, despite the passing years since it did practically anything, dodged the bullet.

Unfortunately i cannot now see any future for Brunty, and i can see more airframes departing sooner or later, but needing to be displayed on the ground, or running, or as part of an easily accessible collection.
Had a certain tin triangle retired to Brunty I think the current situation may have been very different; in fact there may already have been a facility for classic jets being built.

Sadly, bridges were burned, and I don’t think it was ever considered. We may have had many joyful years of a flying Vulcan, but the after effects may be being felt now.
I agree, if XH558 would've gone there they could've built their maintenance/tourist center, regularly taxied bringing in money for the airfield, put funds towards the Canberra & operated it from there, Bruntingthorpe could've been the Duxford for classic jets

But please, let's not turn this into a 558 discussion
Nope, purely for balance and consideration. :slight_smile:

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Tommy
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by Tommy »

News on the third Bucc, XX900, which hopes to move and taxi once again in Staffordshire:



Needs £10k for the move. £1,250 (at the time of writing) has been raised.

GertrudetheMerciless
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

Tommy wrote:
Fri 17 Jul 2020, 7:33 am
News on the third Bucc, XX900, which hopes to move and taxi once again in Staffordshire:



Needs £10k for the move. £1,250 (at the time of writing) has been raised.
It’s a slightly uncomfortable situation, isn’t it? Millionaire who’s just sold business and lease of his airfield site (presumably for millions) allows volunteers to raise money to move his aircraft off site.

106500
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by 106500 »

GertrudetheMerciless wrote:
Sat 18 Jul 2020, 3:21 pm
Tommy wrote:
Fri 17 Jul 2020, 7:33 am
News on the third Bucc, XX900, which hopes to move and taxi once again in Staffordshire:



Needs £10k for the move. £1,250 (at the time of writing) has been raised.
It’s a slightly uncomfortable situation, isn’t it? Millionaire who’s just sold business and lease of his airfield site (presumably for millions) allows volunteers to raise money to move his aircraft off site.
That also occurred to me although it can be assumed DW will incur significant cost in relocating the present fleet to the ‘reserved’ ground, including in time the construction of hangers, etc? As an aside I wonder if room will be available for static engine runs for those aircraft capable of such.... let’s hope so.

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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by HeyfordDave111 »

GertrudetheMerciless wrote:
Sat 18 Jul 2020, 3:21 pm
Tommy wrote:
Fri 17 Jul 2020, 7:33 am
News on the third Bucc, XX900, which hopes to move and taxi once again in Staffordshire:



Needs £10k for the move. £1,250 (at the time of writing) has been raised.
It’s a slightly uncomfortable situation, isn’t it? Millionaire who’s just sold business and lease of his airfield site (presumably for millions) allows volunteers to raise money to move his aircraft off site.
'slightly uncomfortable' is the understatement of the week!
I hadnt realised...... well thats ok......"i've probably got more money that god, but tell you what, you can pay for its moving for me! Aint i kind? down to my last few million sheckles you know"?

Just doesnt seem right somehow.... they had the most active aircraft collection in Europe and one of the most historic set of aircraft in post war aviation........ gave them space, gave them a runway to use, helped return the 'thing' to the skies and now seems to have done a 'volte face' on all of it except for seemingly a small corner of a Leicestershire field. Strange!
Got to love Russianhardware

JetMan
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by JetMan »

HeyfordDave111 wrote:
Sun 19 Jul 2020, 9:37 am
GertrudetheMerciless wrote:
Sat 18 Jul 2020, 3:21 pm
Tommy wrote:
Fri 17 Jul 2020, 7:33 am
News on the third Bucc, XX900, which hopes to move and taxi once again in Staffordshire:



Needs £10k for the move. £1,250 (at the time of writing) has been raised.
It’s a slightly uncomfortable situation, isn’t it? Millionaire who’s just sold business and lease of his airfield site (presumably for millions) allows volunteers to raise money to move his aircraft off site.
'slightly uncomfortable' is the understatement of the week!
I hadnt realised...... well thats ok......"i've probably got more money that god, but tell you what, you can pay for its moving for me! Aint i kind? down to my last few million sheckles you know"?

Just doesnt seem right somehow.... they had the most active aircraft collection in Europe and one of the most historic set of aircraft in post war aviation........ gave them space, gave them a runway to use, helped return the 'thing' to the skies and now seems to have done a 'volte face' on all of it except for seemingly a small corner of a Leicestershire field. Strange!
It seems a similar situation is happening with the Vc10’s... Gary Spoors’s Aircraft yet the group have to raise the money to move it, and it’ll probably be Gary’s company that move them!

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Archer
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by Archer »

Slightly different situation if you ask me. Yes, they are owned by Gary Spoors but that doesn't mean that he has pockets deep enough to fund the move of two VC10s. The move of XR808 to Cosford has shown what is needed for such an undertaking. It is a bit far-fetched to think that Gary can commit his company's facilities and manpower to what amounts to a significant six-figure sum just like that. I expect that he runs his business on a somewhat more commercial basis.

When he purchased the VC10s, Bruntingthorpe was still a suitable place for them to retire to. Having two VC10s was never the plan, so ZA147 was offered to several museums, unfortunately without any takers. When Gary's business moved to St. Athan he took up the opportunity to set up the SWAM there with some other contributors, and plans were made to move ZA147 to this location. I don't know how far that project has progressed, but it still involved finding the money to fund the move. The changed situation at Bruntingthorpe has now thrown a spanner in the works and has accellerated the need for a move, for both airframes.

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TonyC
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by TonyC »

Is it possible for some of the larger airframes to be dismantled into smaller sub-sections and airlifted by Armed Forces helicopters, much like, if I remember correctly, the Germans (?) did with the CASA 2.111, more than a few years ago, rather than being transported by road?

I'm not saying that this should be done, as I imagine that it would require agreement from many Governmental departments and the Armed Forces, but it could provide them with practice in the role of airlifting equipment and may save costs to the owners of the airframes!

Mind you, I'm not sure if there are any helicopters within the UK Forces capable of carrying the weight, or whether the airframes concerned, can be broken down into small enough sections to permit the safe transport, or if it would even prove to be cheaper than road transportation but most likely I'm just talking complete rubbish, which according to SHTSSBO, is not unknown!
...and pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in Space cos there's bugger all down here on Earth!

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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by NAM Updater »

A note of caution on helicopter lifts, if a long route has to be followed the RAF usually may add a 'drop clause' to any agreement, in case the load becomes unstable.

Such a lift was investigated back in 2006 for the Viggen move from RAF Cranwell to Winthorpe and the requested drop clause ended that discussion that I was holding with a Chinook squadron - the flight was approx 12 miles, and not over any properties!
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by TonyC »

Useful information, thanks Howard!
...and pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in Space cos there's bugger all down here on Earth!

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