Airshow Copyright Questions

Discuss equipment and methods or ask for advice
Post Reply
Orias
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu 10 Mar 2022, 8:26 am

Airshow Copyright Questions

Post by Orias »

Hey folks,

Having just signed up for Farnborough again this year, as I have done for many many years, I received the following fairly standard message during the registration process:

"The use of photographic equipment is allowed for private domestic purposes only. All other recording and any transmission is strictly prohibited. As a condition of entry to the Airshow you assign to the Organiser (by way of a present assignment of future copyright) the copyright in any photographs or recordings you make at the Airshow."

I'm pretty sure I've seen this message most years, and my main reason for going to Farnborough is for photography. I rarely sell any, but I love planes, and I love photography, so I combine the two for mostly my own personal gain and learning. I have, however, sold a few images in the past as Editorial, but nothing that's going to allow me to get much more than a Mars Bar at the local newsagent :stuck_out_tongue:

I kind of get why there is this Copyright notice from the event organisers, but it just so happens that I live very close to Farnborough, and my Brother's office is basically at the end of the runway, but outside of the actual showground. Planes and helicopters going to, and from, Farnborough often pass right over my house. So the question is, if I take a photo of a plane flying over my house, heading to Farnborough, or even if I just happen to be on the road outside the event, what's the Copyright status of that? The plane was flying over my house, in open airspace, but I know it's heading to Farnborough! I am aware that the Copyright is probably actually held by the plane owner/operator, but you can usually still publish them as Editorial for sale.

I had a search around, and I couldn't find any specific topic on this subject, but there were a few mentions within other threads. Would be interested to hear people's thoughts!

Cheers,
James

cg_341
Posts: 2598
Joined: Sun 09 Aug 2015, 1:39 pm

Re: Airshow Copyright Questions

Post by cg_341 »

Copyright belongs to the person taking the photograph unless it is transferred for whatever reason.

If you go in to the airshow, as per the conditions of entry, that copyright is transferred to the airshow organisers (although I'm not sure they've ever tried to claim it?)

If you're not in the airshow, the copyright is yours and only yours.

Orias
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu 10 Mar 2022, 8:26 am

Re: Airshow Copyright Questions

Post by Orias »

Ahh, great. Makes sense! I guess they have no real way to know if I took the photo from within the showground vs. from anywhere outside it. And if they see my home address, it would probably add even more weight to that ...

... although I guess they could use the GPS metadata in the shots if they REALLY wanted to take the effort to claim it

User avatar
Tommy
UKAR Staff
Posts: 9401
Joined: Mon 14 Mar 2011, 11:39 pm

Re: Airshow Copyright Questions

Post by Tommy »

(Speaking with my non-lawyer hat on)

Assuming you aren’t at some other event, or there aren’t other issues (someone else’s camera, photography in the course of your employment etc) then anything taken from outside the show is your copyright the moment you click the shutter and an image is created.

The ticket is an agreement between you and the show, and so if you don’t have a ticket, you haven’t agreed to the condition(s) within it and are unlikely to be bound by them.

User avatar
Tommy
UKAR Staff
Posts: 9401
Joined: Mon 14 Mar 2011, 11:39 pm

Re: Airshow Copyright Questions

Post by Tommy »

cg_341 wrote:
Thu 26 May 2022, 8:42 am
If you go in to the airshow, as per the conditions of entry, that copyright is transferred to the airshow organisers (although I'm not sure they've ever tried to claim it?)m
I’ve mulled this over before and I’m not sure of the answer. I suspect it’s a joint copyright, rather than solely the property of an airshow.

The condition is probably there to empower the show to obtain an image if they need it and the ticket holder doesn’t want to provide it. Cynically, this could be for marketing/financial gain (unlikely), or more practically, it could be on the off chance that someone happened to record a helpful set of images of an accident or security issue that may assist a future investigation.

Shows are very unlikely to come after individuals for certain images unless that image is unique and could make a shedload of money.

I don’t even think airshows care much about those people selling key rings and mugs with their show images on Etsy.

User avatar
capercaillie
Posts: 9336
Joined: Mon 01 Sep 2008, 3:04 pm
Location: Leominster

Re: Airshow Copyright Questions

Post by capercaillie »

I seem to recall an issue some years ago where someone published a book of the Tigermeet held at IAT, possibly 1991, and they were chased for the proceeds/profits of the book fairly robustly.

I think if there is unauthorised use of an airshow to promote a publication or image, they may get heavy.
"The surrogate voice of st24"

My flickr photos https://www.flickr.com/photos/146673712@N06/

User avatar
Archer
Posts: 231
Joined: Wed 06 May 2009, 10:02 am
Contact:

Re: Airshow Copyright Questions

Post by Archer »

You can attach conditions when allowing people entry to a certain venue or event, but with a large show such as Farnborough, it will be very difficult to enforce such a condition. As there is a commercial side to a large show, I guess the issues are mostly with persons who are trying to earn money from their photos or videos, even though they entered as private persons. If you want to take photos at Farnborough and publish them in a book, they would like you to let them know beforehand so that they can claim a share of the proceeds. A couple of keyrings on Etsy isn't worth their while but a book that sells well is a different situation.

User avatar
Aquarious
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri 23 Jun 2017, 8:58 am

Re: Airshow Copyright Questions

Post by Aquarious »

as far as I am aware the photographer owns the copyright of any photographs taken from a public place, whereas most events including airshows often make it a condition of entry that photos can not be used for commercial purposes, this is not the same as copyright. The photographer still retains the copyright but may needs seek authority from the organizer before publication.it can be a very murky area of the law.No one has the right to prevent you taking photos from a public place, so long as you are not breaking the law.

User avatar
psquiddy
Posts: 1276
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 10:33 am
Contact:

Re: Airshow Copyright Questions

Post by psquiddy »

So, theoretically, if you climbed over the fence and got in without a ticket you have no contract and therefore no problem with the organisers chasing you regarding copyright?
Over 300 free things to do in London
http://www.toplondondaysout.co.uk

FarnboroJohn
Posts: 3038
Joined: Tue 28 Aug 2012, 6:57 pm

Re: Airshow Copyright Questions

Post by FarnboroJohn »

psquiddy wrote:
Tue 04 Jul 2023, 2:45 pm
So, theoretically, if you climbed over the fence and got in without a ticket you have no contract and therefore no problem with the organisers chasing you regarding copyright?
Or if you are outside the venue, I guess. I wouldn't pay to go into Farnborough these days so all my pix will be from outside.

cg_341
Posts: 2598
Joined: Sun 09 Aug 2015, 1:39 pm

Re: Airshow Copyright Questions

Post by cg_341 »

Aquarious wrote:
Tue 04 Jul 2023, 2:38 pm
as far as I am aware the photographer owns the copyright of any photographs taken from a public place
Calling an event that requires a ticket and payment (and therefore a contract) a public place is dubious legally.

Once there's a contract in place you're bound by that contract, in much the same way as any photos I take with my personal equipment for work purposes belong to, and are copyright to, my place of work.

User avatar
Archer
Posts: 231
Joined: Wed 06 May 2009, 10:02 am
Contact:

Re: Airshow Copyright Questions

Post by Archer »

psquiddy wrote:
Tue 04 Jul 2023, 2:45 pm
So, theoretically, if you climbed over the fence and got in without a ticket you have no contract and therefore no problem with the organisers chasing you regarding copyright?
If you did that and the show organisers could prove it, they could chase you for having entered the event without a ticket and perhaps even claim that any photos you took were illegally obtained. It would make for an interesting case I'm sure. :slight_smile:

Thoughtful_Flyer
Posts: 446
Joined: Fri 12 Sep 2008, 8:32 am

Re: Airshow Copyright Questions

Post by Thoughtful_Flyer »

I used to work in the museum field (art not aeroplanes) but the same concepts apply.

In most cases the exhibits are out of copyright (more than 70 years since the end of the year in which the artist died). However by going into the museum, even if there is no charge, you enter into a contract to comply with their terms and conditions of entry. Generally that includes the basis on which you may (or may not) take photographs and what happens to the copyright of any that you do take. With contemporary art (living artist or less than 70 years since the artist died) it is more complex because the exhibit itself is in copyright. In some cases that can be aggressively policed by organisations representing the artist, or their estate, such as DACS.

A museum, even if state owned and free to enter, is not generally a public place. If there were outdoor exhibits which could be seen and photographed from the road that may be another matter.

Post Reply