FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

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Jonnym
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by Jonnym »

Can't say anything not already mentioned.

Totally understand that costs have risen and there's been tough decisions to make but the way its been done is appalling. With the increases, I can't justify it and don't want to try to. I'll be gutted but there's less and less disposable cash and while I appreciate all costs are going up so increases are unavoidable, the amount its hiked up makes it front and centre for when yearly finances get worked out.

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Tommy
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by Tommy »

Bodz156 wrote:
Thu 30 Jun 2022, 10:58 pm
Not a FRIATer, never have been, probably never will be at this rate...but I expect we'll all get hammered with price increases again across the board for next year's event.
This is the question - either everyone sees a relative increase, and day tickets are up in the £80-£100 each range (and similar with enclosures etc), and good luck trying to sell that during a cost of living crisis *or* FRIAT, the most loyal members, are getting shafted because they know that a lot of people will hold their nose and pay because, as has been said, what other large military airshow is there to go to these days?

And if it is just FRIAT that has to pay disproportionately more compared to regular punters who don’t have the same proportionate increase, then it’s unfair. And the costs “recouped” by a 200 or 300 FRIATers would be much more easily recouped spread more thinly across all 250,000 airshow goers.

I get price increases - the airshow may well be more expensive to run, and done sensitively, fairly, and with justification, most people may grumble, but will cover it.

Farting out an unclear, unjustified email at the 11th hour with absolutely no warning, and failing to consult with FRIAT members, or even just give them more time to set money aside/have conversations with significant others, and then having the brass neck to conclude it by saying “this is what you wanted” really grates.

And that’s on price increases - there’s absolutely nothing in there to even soften the language or tone. And god forbid they add some extra “product” to sweeten the bitter pill. I know the reasons for a Thursday walk make it not possible, but was there really nothing that the show could chuck in at low expense to them but might make a difference to FRIATers? A photo bus? Exclusive Thursday morning/evening static shoot? A Friday-night bus to the live side to shoot display aircraft after the show? Lunch with demo crews? Some basic catering/packed lunches at FRIAT?

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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by pb643 »

Berf wrote:
Fri 01 Jul 2022, 6:23 am
Ben Dunnell tweets that there is a general underestimation of the costs of staging an airshow. He may be right. But that's not going to change unless there's communication. Wissam says above that there was no justification provided for the massive price increase and the tone of the email - he is right. As Friends of RIAT communication is essential. The meeting did not discuss price increases -apparently - but I wouldn't know as we never got the promised notes and rely on others to pass on information - again no communication of what matters. This is not the way to treat friends and supporters laying out large sums well in advance for something that, as others allude to, may be washed out or may not have the rare aircraft most of us seek. RIAT has some highly professional people working or volunteering for it - with regards communication and management of it they are not doing their jobs and are damaging RIATs relationship with key customers.
I have never done FRIAT, but I have attended every show in some way since 1988. The RIAT corporate behomoth has concerned me for some time. The scale of the "build" and numbers of paid staff at RIAT over the last 10 years or so is enormous and it all needs to be paid for.

I did volunteer for 5 or 6 days at Scampton, where for whatever reason the RIAT brand failed. Mainly cost I believe? They tried to do the RIAT thing, IE nothing but the best and it just wasn't sustainable. If I recall correctly, there were staff on site for 6 weeks before and 4 weeks after??

Like many of you, I have seen the event evolve to what it has become today and there is no obvious way of undoing that. But it has appeared to me for some time, that some effort should be made to reduce costs. Perhaps the cancellations has bought that stark reality home?

I truly hope it survives!

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Tommy
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by Tommy »

In any event, I’m not just going to sit here and moan away.

I’m going to try and get some clarity today internally from DBH, and will refer anything I do get across here 👍🏻

If the right people at DBH read these threads, they may well realise the need for immediately greater clarity on these prices, so perhaps a follow up email will explain things.

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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by AARDVARK »

It is great that we are sharing our annoyance of the price increases for next year but we also need to direct this to FRIAT, if enough people complain then they will have to review it,
strength in numbers.

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Tommy
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by Tommy »

They won’t - the reason this is put out now (and, if I may be cynical, the reason they didn’t even mention it at the FRIAT forum - which, doesn’t matter which way RIAT spin it, is pretty disgraceful) is because it’s now too late to change.

Two weeks to the show and I dare say the renewal packs will all be being printed already.

There’s probably no time for such a U-Turn at this point. The best we can hope for is greater clarity - perhaps the pricing isn’t what it seems on its face at first instance, or whatever.

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Chopper81
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by Chopper81 »

I’ve never done FRIAT and won’t now which is a shame, I’ve always done arrivals, departures and sometimes a show day(normally Saturday) and most of the weekend is spent sat at the campsite!!
I like just sitting back chilling and watching the aircraft coming and going, I’m slightly bothered by the price increase as you can imagine the individual day prices being rammed up too!
I do agree putting up the prices slightly on all the separate day tickets would make more sense than hammering the FRIAT lot, £5 on everyday over the 6 days of tickets would surely generate a whole lot more cash and not piss of the enthusiast!?
As cvix mentioned for a band B with discount there’s a 28% increase, so for the wife, nipper and me just on arrivals and departures it’d go from £112 to roughly £144 if it was 28% increase which isn’t going to break the bank but in a years time with the way things are going it may not be something we can squeeze in with the cost of fuel, campsites will go up no doubt and everything too!
RIATs in the blood for many of us and we would all hate to not be there, and I’m sure 99% of us will still be there!

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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by Wissam24 »

RIAT may be the biggest, may be the best, and FRIAT may be a sensational way to do it, but it's just an airshow and people will cut it out of their lives if they have to
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Bodz156
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by Bodz156 »

So, pb643's comment above is something that I've thought about for a few years - having visited a few European events. The largest ones all have what we'd call a 'RIAT standard' flying display (Airpower & Radom is actually probably longer) with generally speaking the same kind of participants, yet Airpower for example is completely free to enter. I seem to recall that that event is paid for by a combination of Red Bull (about half the cost) & the Austrian armed forces/local government cover the rest (as a recruitment tool/local tourism etc).

Just always wondered why our shows here have to be so so expensive when they aren't anywhere else....there must be a way to get the cost of ours down a bit.

Could RIAT not be made into a UK armed forces recruitment event with MoD financial contribution to it's running? Or maybe more sponsorship? Just throwing stuff out there....

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Tommy
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by Tommy »

The equivalent five day spotter package at Zeltweg (reportedly superior to FRIAT), is €250.

MiG_Eater
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by MiG_Eater »

I have often been accused of being too kind to RIAT. I've rarely complained about anything they've done - and when I have complained they've always responded or resolved the issue for next year.

In this case I am, once again, finding myself going against the grain and feeling that RIAT have probably made the right call, but perhaps gone about it in the wrong way.

I have, for years, thought FRIAT was ridiculously good value for money. Obviously its subjective, but there is literally no other aviation event in the world i'd rather attend than FRIAT. To me its incomparable, but there is no doubt an emotional connection to Fairford for me that is irreplacable.

Inflation is now running at about 10% in the UK, but fuel prices have risen well ahead of that so a significant increase in price is, to my mind, expected. Factor in again virtually no income throughout 2020 and 2021, and its clear that something has to happen to keep the show going long term.

Being a "Friend" is a two way thing and frankly if it helps to keep the show going i'm perfectly happy to chuck a few extra quid over to RIAT for my tickets next year. That being said, I feel for people that enjoyed the Mach1 or Mach2 tickets and now are seeing a significant price increase.

The FRIAT email is signed off "We look forward to seeing you in a few days, and for many years to come. " My suspicion is that without significant price increases there would be real questions of the "many years to come" part of that statement.

Ultimately its all subjective as to what is valuable and we can talk all day about prices of theme parks, international holidays, the British grand prix and so on - but for me at least, I believe this is a necessary price increase that I am willing to pay. If others don't think FRIAT is worth it any longer, I hope you are still able to enjoy the 2023 show with a GA ticket.

pb643
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by pb643 »

Bodz156 wrote:
Fri 01 Jul 2022, 7:22 am
Could RIAT not be made into a UK armed forces recruitment event with MoD financial contribution to it's running? Or maybe more sponsorship? Just throwing stuff out there....
If I recall correctly the MOD/RAF wound down its support some years ago. I don't think it was ever financial support, but support in kind; mainly personnel and logistics.
Please correct me if I have that wrong.

Edit: Or am I confusing that with Scampton? A three year business plan of decreasing support. Year 3 being a self financing with no support?? :thinking:
Or maybe more sponsorship?
I have often wondered about the sponsorship aspect. It has been said many times, that the event would not happen without the corporate sponsors. However the cost to the event of the corporate sponsors must be enormous. I wonder what balance remains?
Last edited by pb643 on Fri 01 Jul 2022, 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

Berf
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by Berf »

Surely anyone needs to know the other ticket prices before blindly paying out....

Previously there was some trust in FRIAT being better value - that's gone - at least for me

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Duffer
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by Duffer »

I haven’t received the email informing of the price changes yet. If they go ahead as planned this will be my last year at RIAT as I travel from Ireland by car and ferry, and the price of accommodation around the area is increasing greatly year on year.

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Tommy
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by Tommy »

MiG_Eater wrote:
Fri 01 Jul 2022, 7:31 am
Being a "Friend" is a two way thing and frankly if it helps to keep the show going i'm perfectly happy to chuck a few extra quid over to RIAT for my tickets next year.
We did - we all stumped up extra cash that the general punters weren’t asked to do.

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Jonnym
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by Jonnym »

Tommy wrote:
Fri 01 Jul 2022, 7:16 am
They won’t - the reason this is put out now (and, if I may be cynical, the reason they didn’t even mention it at the FRIAT forum - which, doesn’t matter which way RIAT spin it, is pretty disgraceful) is because it’s now too late to change.

Two weeks to the show and I dare say the renewal packs will all be being printed already.

There’s probably no time for such a U-Turn at this point. The best we can hope for is greater clarity - perhaps the pricing isn’t what it seems on its face at first instance, or whatever.
Agreed - There certainly won't be any u-turn.

\I'll liken it to all live events the past few years and that's making the transition from those who are want to attend and support and moving to those that can afford to attend at a premium cost. Live music for example, saw measures introduced to stop touts and re-sellers but yet more and more gigs have a higher secondary re-sale than ever before because acts, ticket companies and management companies go after the top dollar customers and hold standard tickets from sale for those with the money to buy well above face value tickets. Same with football - shifting out the scarf wearing fans and replacing them with 'prawn sandwich' eating corporates.

If (F)RIAT thinks it can move into a higher ticket paying customer to make more money then they should put the prices up and your old 'friends' will be replaced by newer, higher revenue paying 'customers'. If RIAT thinks this is absurd and still wants to hang it's hat on it being a charity first and business second and point to rising costs, then it should consider that a lack of communication and rationale will always lead to wild opinion, factual or not.

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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by Foggy32 »

[*]
Tommy wrote:
Fri 01 Jul 2022, 7:16 am
They won’t - the reason this is put out now (and, if I may be cynical, the reason they didn’t even mention it at the FRIAT forum - which, doesn’t matter which way RIAT spin it, is pretty disgraceful) is because it’s now too late to change.

Two weeks to the show and I dare say the renewal packs will all be being printed already.

There’s probably no time for such a U-Turn at this point. The best we can hope for is greater clarity - perhaps the pricing isn’t what it seems on its face at first instance, or whatever.
Exactly what I said to the Mrs last night Tommy.

I am just hoping I have jumped to conclusion that DD is not available! however, I am not holding my breath.

Price-wise with my gold discount and the fact that we sit lower in the grandstand I think we would pay around £40 more per ticket, which I can accept. It's the payment method that's the sticking point, to be honest, I would consider it if we were able to use Paypal to pay so we could spread the cost that way. But if this is not the option, I would be looking at general entry tickets on Friday and either Saturday or Sunday.

I would like to understand the reasoning for taking away the other Mach's, not everyone wants to spend 6 days at the airshow! for one reason or another. Our annual trip to Fairford is our holiday as me and my wife are not beach people and we love spending time in the Cotswolds. But as you said there is no justification for it in that very vague email.

As for percs or the seeming lack of, considering the price increase, one that would cost nothing for FRIAT would be to have specific entry points at Red and Green zones not just open early for members at the Blue zone.
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by verreli »

Tommy wrote:
Fri 01 Jul 2022, 7:26 am
The equivalent five day spotter package at Zeltweg (reportedly superior to FRIAT), is €250.
1 day package (Fri. 02. or Sat. 03. September) 80 Euro
2 days package (Fr. 02. and Sa. 03. September) 150 Euro
5 days package (Wed. 31. August to Sun. 04. September) 250 Euro
Services included in the Spotter Package:

Access to the air base HINTERSTOISSER
AIRPOWER22 personal identification card
Parking card and parking permit in the assigned area
Own spotter tent (access only with spotter pass)
Meals: Breakfast, lunch, dinner and drinks and coffee
Detailed information about the arrival and departure dates of the aircraft before and after the event.
Exclusive access to specially reserved photo and film zones (spotter area) outside the spectator area
Escort and transportation service to these photo and film zones within the air base.
Support by competent personnel
Work area with power supply

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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by Domvickery »

MiG_Eater wrote:
Fri 01 Jul 2022, 7:31 am

The FRIAT email is signed off "We look forward to seeing you in a few days, and for many years to come. " My suspicion is that without significant price increases there would be real questions of the "many years to come" part of that statement.

But by pricing people out and or removing the pay in installments option a lot of people, including me, will make this years FRIAT their last
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by Domvickery »

Domvickery wrote:
Fri 01 Jul 2022, 8:18 am
MiG_Eater wrote:
Fri 01 Jul 2022, 7:31 am

The FRIAT email is signed off "We look forward to seeing you in a few days, and for many years to come. " My suspicion is that without significant price increases there would be real questions of the "many years to come" part of that statement.

But by pricing people out and or removing the pay in installments option a lot of people, including me, will make this years FRIAT their last, what will that achieve?
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by Andyph »

RIAT exists to make money - and it's is sales 101 that if the product is selling out - put the price up until you find out what people are prepared to pay.

All the moaning sounds a bit precious to me - pay if you think it is value- seek other alteratives if not:

There are plenty of other options to watch the Fairford display - P+V and various naughty fields as well as normal show tickets - It actually is a great way to chop and change over a few days and costs a lot less.

With a bit of imagination you can also have a superb viewing experience at Zeltweg without paying a penny - show days are of course free inside :)

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Tommy
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by Tommy »

Andyph wrote:
Fri 01 Jul 2022, 8:23 am

There are plenty of other options to watch the Fairford display - P+V and various naughty fields as well as normal show tickets - It actually is a great way to chop and change over a few days and costs a lot less.
I daresay a decent number will do exactly that.

It belies the point that most/all FRIATers *want* to contribute to RIAT. We love the show and we care about it, obviously.

Otherwise they’d already be doing naughty fields. That’s sort of the point - FRIATers are very happy to contribute to the show and to pay, even the premium (though as has been noted we’ve been paying a bit more for less for some years now), but they also don’t want to get unfairly shafted.

That’s the nub of the issue.

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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by MiG_Eater »

Domvickery wrote:
Fri 01 Jul 2022, 8:18 am
MiG_Eater wrote:
Fri 01 Jul 2022, 7:31 am

The FRIAT email is signed off "We look forward to seeing you in a few days, and for many years to come. " My suspicion is that without significant price increases there would be real questions of the "many years to come" part of that statement.

But by pricing people out and or removing the pay in installments option a lot of people, including me, will make this years FRIAT their last
To be honest I hadn't considered the lack of paying by instalments. That is just weird, as its an obvious way to sell higher priced tickets to people with less ready cash - kind of a win for everyone.

I really hope it works out and that people are able to enjoy the show next year, and that there is something available for the Mach 1 and Mach 2 refugees to go to that provides a similar experience.

I will also say that whilst I don't object to price rises per se (they are a fact of life now) I definitely think a vague email two weeks before the show wasn't the best way to handle this. A bit of explanation, nuance and justification could have gone a long way here I think.

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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by G-CVIX »

Andyph wrote:
Fri 01 Jul 2022, 8:23 am
RIAT exists to make money - and it's is sales 101 that if the product is selling out - put the price up until you find out what people are prepared to pay.

All the moaning sounds a bit precious to me - pay if you think it is value- seek other alteratives if not:

There are plenty of other options to watch the Fairford display - P+V and various naughty fields as well as normal show tickets - It actually is a great way to chop and change over a few days and costs a lot less.

With a bit of imagination you can also have a superb viewing experience at Zeltweg without paying a penny - show days are of course free inside :)
But surely putting the prices up so much that people have to seek free viewpoints, thus completely losing the sale is the antithesis of sales 101?

They've taken repeat, guaranteed customers, and turned them into no customers at all. That sounds like pretty bad salesmanship to me.

I've never gone to Totterdown, and never would. I don't think any of those fields under the display line are a good idea. (but that's another discussion). I would, however, happily enjoy the show from Kempsford for the weekend, perhaps do one day inside, and leave it at that. A huge loss in income for the show.

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R4118
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by R4118 »

Tommy wrote:
Fri 01 Jul 2022, 8:28 am
Andyph wrote:
Fri 01 Jul 2022, 8:23 am

There are plenty of other options to watch the Fairford display - P+V and various naughty fields as well as normal show tickets - It actually is a great way to chop and change over a few days and costs a lot less.
I daresay a decent number will do exactly that.

It belies the point that most/all FRIATers *want* to contribute to RIAT. We love the show and we care about it, obviously.

Otherwise they’d already be doing naughty fields. That’s sort of the point - FRIATers are very happy to contribute to the show and to pay, even the premium (though as has been noted we’ve been paying a bit more for less for some years now), but they also don’t want to get unfairly shafted.

That’s the nub of the issue.
Other option it will be.

I am a FRIAT member since the mid nineties, but it will end in 2022. The ticketprice for 2023 is the reason : 3 0 0 pounds for the "cheap" seats??????
Think I will pass for next year and move a few feet to the Viewing Village grandstand. And PV on monday.

A purely rational decision,
but with enormous pain in my heart and a lump in my throat.....

Now just praying that the weather will be kind to us this year.
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