Farewell E-3D Sentry

Discuss all things 'aviation' that do not fit into a more appropriate forum
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DerekF
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Re: Farewell E-3D Sentry

Post by DerekF »

disgruntled wrote:
Tue 03 Aug 2021, 4:26 pm
Civil servants. Please direct any wrath at career Civil Servants who are the true villains in all of this. If left to run themselves the Armed Forces would be fit for purpose in every way, however they have to kow tow to these unelected, unintelligent, idiotic bean counters who can see no further than their own careers.
:rofl:

Unknown74
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Re: Farewell E-3D Sentry

Post by Unknown74 »

I once heard a politician saying just after he had taken over his new position (I think it was a Defence Minister funnily enough) that his successor who had made a controversial decision had consulted widely? Firstly who is this guy Widely and secondly what is he doing in Politics?

disgruntled
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Re: Farewell E-3D Sentry

Post by disgruntled »

DerekF wrote:
Tue 03 Aug 2021, 4:49 pm
disgruntled wrote:
Tue 03 Aug 2021, 4:26 pm
Civil servants. Please direct any wrath at career Civil Servants who are the true villains in all of this. If left to run themselves the Armed Forces would be fit for purpose in every way, however they have to kow tow to these unelected, unintelligent, idiotic bean counters who can see no further than their own careers.
:rofl:
For clarity I speak from experience working at the UK’s primary Headquarters and having witness the complete mess civil servants make of everything through sheer incompetence and ignorance. Your credentials Derek are???

reheat module
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Re: Farewell E-3D Sentry

Post by reheat module »

disgruntled wrote:
Tue 03 Aug 2021, 4:57 pm
DerekF wrote:
Tue 03 Aug 2021, 4:49 pm
disgruntled wrote:
Tue 03 Aug 2021, 4:26 pm
Civil servants. Please direct any wrath at career Civil Servants who are the true villains in all of this. If left to run themselves the Armed Forces would be fit for purpose in every way, however they have to kow tow to these unelected, unintelligent, idiotic bean counters who can see no further than their own careers.
:rofl:
For clarity I speak from experience working at the UK’s primary Headquarters and having witness the complete mess civil servants make of everything through sheer incompetence and ignorance. Your credentials Derek are???
Well said.

For further clarification - do you refer to High Wycombe, or 'Malfunction Junction' at Abbey Wood near Bristol?
I was a 40yr RAF career man, finishing at a respective level, and I never 'Kow-towed' to ANYONE.
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Big Eric
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Re: Farewell E-3D Sentry

Post by Big Eric »

Does anyone else get the feeling that disgruntled is disgruntled?

Jimbo27
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Re: Farewell E-3D Sentry

Post by Jimbo27 »

I'm a career Civil Servant. On a daily basis I work with some idiots who wear blue uniforms... See what damage a sweeping statement causes ?

FarnboroJohn
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Re: Farewell E-3D Sentry

Post by FarnboroJohn »

Big Eric wrote:
Tue 03 Aug 2021, 6:20 pm
Does anyone else get the feeling that disgruntled is disgruntled?
I get the impression he's an OR, and unlikely to ever be CAS.

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DerekF
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Re: Farewell E-3D Sentry

Post by DerekF »

disgruntled wrote:
Tue 03 Aug 2021, 4:57 pm
DerekF wrote:
Tue 03 Aug 2021, 4:49 pm
disgruntled wrote:
Tue 03 Aug 2021, 4:26 pm
Civil servants. Please direct any wrath at career Civil Servants who are the true villains in all of this. If left to run themselves the Armed Forces would be fit for purpose in every way, however they have to kow tow to these unelected, unintelligent, idiotic bean counters who can see no further than their own careers.
:rofl:
For clarity I speak from experience working at the UK’s primary Headquarters and having witness the complete mess civil servants make of everything through sheer incompetence and ignorance. Your credentials Derek are???
My credentials are fine thanks. The thought of letting an unfettered RAF loose with a budget doesn't bear thinking about. For the last twenty years on and off, dealing with both the MoD and RAF has been littered with mismanagement, poorly thought out decisions and rank incompetence. The Official Secrets Act forbids me to say what I would like to say but suffice to say that the UK military procurement process is farcical and frankly not fit for purpose. Suggesting that the RAF are squeaky clean in this process is so woefully wide of the mark as to be laughable.

EGDR
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Re: Farewell E-3D Sentry

Post by EGDR »

Spartabus wrote:
Tue 03 Aug 2021, 12:49 pm
No SigInt (Defender/Sentinal) and no AEW (Sentry) capability for the forseable future, then a much reduced one when the Wedgetail comes on line? Incredible.
Sentinel didn't do SIGINT! While the lack of E-7 airframe numbers is disappointing, we do have to remember the UK's E-3 fleet hasn't really been more than a handful for a long time either. By all accounts, the E-7 does a great job as well.

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Rick
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Re: Farewell E-3D Sentry

Post by Rick »

ZH101 tracking inbound Waddington now.
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GertrudetheMerciless
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Re: Farewell E-3D Sentry

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

cg_341 wrote:
Tue 03 Aug 2021, 1:23 pm
Rivet Joint appears to do a decent job of sigint.

If we have two of three Wedgetails airworthy at any one time, that's more than we've had Sentrys for quite some time!
An excellent final point.

Removing all the emotion and ranting, it seems a fairly prudent decision. It far more nuanced than people seem to think.

And looking at some of the comments above, particularly directing scorn at those in the RAF or those working for the MOD in some capacity, it really demonstrates the level of understanding of such topics on SM. :slight_smile:

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DerekF
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Re: Farewell E-3D Sentry

Post by DerekF »

The problem is that for some, the comments are based on many years' experience in a professional capacity.

From a Wedgetail fleet of three, the RAF will be lucky to have one available at any one time.

GertrudetheMerciless
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Re: Farewell E-3D Sentry

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

DerekF wrote:
Thu 05 Aug 2021, 4:00 pm
The problem is that for some, the comments are based on many years' experience in a professional capacity.

From a Wedgetail fleet of three, the RAF will be lucky to have one available at any one time.
I refer to the first line of my post above.

3 737NGs will no doubt provide a far easier to maintain fleet, with excellent spares availability and corporate knowledge across 2 fleets, than a handful of (just) post WW2 designed airliners. :slight_smile:

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DerekF
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Re: Farewell E-3D Sentry

Post by DerekF »

I'm sure that's the plan, however we'll see.

DOUGHNUT
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Re: Farewell E-3D Sentry

Post by DOUGHNUT »

The point still remains that until Wedgetail is in service, and fully operational, we are reliant on other nations to provide AEW service. While I do not doubt the assistance were will receive from NATO in this respect the time will come when our friends and allies will get tried of constantly "bailing out" the UK.

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psquiddy
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Re: Farewell E-3D Sentry

Post by psquiddy »

DOUGHNUT wrote:
Fri 06 Aug 2021, 9:43 am
The point still remains that until Wedgetail is in service, and fully operational, we are reliant on other nations to provide AEW service. While I do not doubt the assistance were will receive from NATO in this respect the time will come when our friends and allies will get tried of constantly "bailing out" the UK.
If another country is "bailing out" the UK i.e. lending aircraft and personnel to carry out a task, presumably the UK has to pay for that service?

And is the same true if we are "bailing out" someone else?

How does NATO funding work? If a multi national force is operating for NATO, does NATO finance the services of each country proportionally to the size of their involvement?
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GertrudetheMerciless
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Re: Farewell E-3D Sentry

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

DOUGHNUT wrote:
Fri 06 Aug 2021, 9:43 am
The point still remains that until Wedgetail is in service, and fully operational, we are reliant on other nations to provide AEW service. While I do not doubt the assistance were will receive from NATO in this respect the time will come when our friends and allies will get tried of constantly "bailing out" the UK.
But that is literally the point of the NATO AEW component. And it’s not “bailing out” as each member contributes in their own way to every aspect of NATO, some, like the U.K., far more than others.

And the chance of something occuring requiring sovereign AEW support are tiny. On a balance of risk, in a nation riddled with more debt post Covid, this is probably a correct decision.

Unknown74
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Re: Farewell E-3D Sentry

Post by Unknown74 »

Co-incidence that the Sentry is the picture on the 2021 Royal Air Force Calendar!

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speedbird2639
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Re: Farewell E-3D Sentry

Post by speedbird2639 »

Unknown74 wrote:
Wed 11 Aug 2021, 11:31 pm
Co-incidence that the Sentry is the picture on the 2021 Royal Air Force Calendar!
I'm surprised it's not 'December' in the 2022 calendar!

(This is 'standard' with football calendars - want to know who is about to be sold in the up coming Winter transfer window? Check the team's calendar when it is released in about August - players who are featured in Q4 (and especially December) are likely to be sold in the next few weeks)

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Rick
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Re: Farewell E-3D Sentry

Post by Rick »

ZH101 has been tracking today as "SOLEX01"
Slackers of the World unite !
Tomorrow.

Big Eric
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Re: Farewell E-3D Sentry

Post by Big Eric »

Rick wrote:
Fri 03 Sep 2021, 1:25 pm
ZH101 has been tracking today as "SOLEX01"
It was flying yesterday too with the same callsign.

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Rick
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Re: Farewell E-3D Sentry

Post by Rick »

ZH101 tracking now as "SOLEX01" over Lincs
Slackers of the World unite !
Tomorrow.

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leuchars43
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Re: Farewell E-3D Sentry

Post by leuchars43 »

ZH101 tracking now as "SOLEX01" over Northumberland / Borders area .