XH558 News

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richardgtb
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Re: XH558 News

Post by richardgtb »

And XL426 is heading back under cover :)

https://avrovulcan.com/news/post/xl426- ... e-hangar-6

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jasonT1981
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Re: XH558 News

Post by jasonT1981 »

Email from VTTS

13 July 2022: Doncaster Sheffield Airport Announcement


You may have heard the news today that the Board of Doncaster Sheffield Airport (DSA) has begun a review of strategic options for the Airport. The review follows lengthy deliberations by the Board of DSA which has reluctantly concluded that aviation activity on the site may no longer be commercially viable.

We know that you - the loyal supporters of Vulcan XH558 and VTST - will be concerned by this news, and the implications for the future of the aircraft.

As you know we have in place an agreement for parking our aircraft at DSA, together with access for our staff, volunteers and visitors. We will of course be working with the airport to establish, as quickly as possible, what this announcement means for us. We will update you on this when we know more.

Thank you for your continued support for Vulcan XH558.

cg_341
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Re: XH558 News

Post by cg_341 »

We have an agreement in place 😂

You can't have an agreement if the place doesn't exist any more. Muppets.

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andygolfer
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Re: XH558 News

Post by andygolfer »

potentially bad news, at least they didn't start building the new visitor centre otherwise that could have been a lot of money down the drain

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NAM Updater
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Re: XH558 News

Post by NAM Updater »

A fellow museum trustee forwarded me the following weblink, which is an alternative view on the subject - posted without comment!

https://www.headforpoints.com/2022/07/1 ... tly-close/
Howard Heeley - Newark Air Museum Trustee
Every museum visit counts!
http://newarkairmuseum.org

106500
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Re: XH558 News

Post by 106500 »

cg_341 wrote:
Wed 13 Jul 2022, 5:32 pm
We have an agreement in place 😂

You can't have an agreement if the place doesn't exist any more. Muppets.
I think they are talking about the present situation. It’s perhaps a bit disingenuous to describe them in this way. The VTTS team want the very best for the aircraft and are certainly not ‘Muppets’.

GeeRam
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Re: XH558 News

Post by GeeRam »

106500 wrote:
Wed 13 Jul 2022, 12:15 pm
This doesn’t bode well for XH558? Must be a worry.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-s ... e-62149511
I don't see how this will make much difference at all to the situation of '558.

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andygolfer
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Re: XH558 News

Post by andygolfer »

GeeRam wrote:
Wed 13 Jul 2022, 6:57 pm
106500 wrote:
Wed 13 Jul 2022, 12:15 pm
This doesn’t bode well for XH558? Must be a worry.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-s ... e-62149511
I don't see how this will make much difference at all to the situation of '558.
if they (Peel) as owners want to develop the site they will want vacant possession I would think - same as happened at Brunty with the Tristars and VC.10s the motor auction group(forgot their name sorry) bought the site to use as they pleased with no aircraft on it so the aircraft that couldn't be moved had to go off site in a skip. Best chance might be to secure a small plot in one corner for a static exhibit but bottom line is it depends on the cost. Anything will cost money and I've no idea how much the trust now hold cash wise.

The bottom line is that it's all speculation until the plans are fully revealed
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ericbee123
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Re: XH558 News

Post by ericbee123 »

Meh. It’s a static Vulcan. Plenty of other static Vulcans left, that I also won’t bother visiting, if this one goes.

Sorry.
Disclaimer-I have spell/grammar checked this post, it may still contain mistakes that might cause offence.

Ken Shabby
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Re: XH558 News

Post by Ken Shabby »

andygolfer wrote:
Wed 13 Jul 2022, 7:05 pm
if they (Peel) as owners want to develop the site they will want vacant possession I would think - same as happened at Brunty with the Tristars and VC.10s the motor auction group(forgot their name sorry) bought the site to use as they pleased with no aircraft on it so the aircraft that couldn't be moved had to go off site in a skip. Best chance might be to secure a small plot in one corner for a static exhibit but bottom line is it depends on the cost. Anything will cost money and I've no idea how much the trust now hold cash wise.

The bottom line is that it's all speculation until the plans are fully revealed
I can’t imagine Vulcan to the Sky are strapped for cash. Although the visitor centre appeal failed, they did still raise £500,000 and have said that 9/10 of the donors have allowed them to keep their money. That should give them ‘nest egg’ of some £450K to play with.

If DSA does close, perhaps that will be enough to purchase some land to site XH558 on and at least save the aircraft as a static. Or perhaps enough to section it and move it, although I’ve no idea where to.

This assuming, of course, that the £450K hasn’t already been eaten up by staff and consultancy costs.
Ken

Unknown74
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Re: XH558 News

Post by Unknown74 »

If they were able to move ‘558, would be better going to Elvington?!?!

Ken Shabby
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Re: XH558 News

Post by Ken Shabby »

106500 wrote:
Wed 13 Jul 2022, 6:21 pm
cg_341 wrote:
Wed 13 Jul 2022, 5:32 pm
We have an agreement in place 😂

You can't have an agreement if the place doesn't exist any more. Muppets.
I think they are talking about the present situation. It’s perhaps a bit disingenuous to describe them in this way. The VTTS team want the very best for the aircraft and are certainly not ‘Muppets’.
If Peel has an agreement with VTTS, they can’t just rip it up because they decide to sell the place. There will be a legal obligation and it may give VTTS some leverage to secure a site on the airport (if it remains as an airport) or in the middle of a light industrial, warehousing complex or whatever.
Ken

GeeRam
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Re: XH558 News

Post by GeeRam »

Ken Shabby wrote:
Wed 13 Jul 2022, 9:47 pm
106500 wrote:
Wed 13 Jul 2022, 6:21 pm
cg_341 wrote:
Wed 13 Jul 2022, 5:32 pm
We have an agreement in place 😂

You can't have an agreement if the place doesn't exist any more. Muppets.
I think they are talking about the present situation. It’s perhaps a bit disingenuous to describe them in this way. The VTTS team want the very best for the aircraft and are certainly not ‘Muppets’.
If Peel has an agreement with VTTS, they can’t just rip it up because they decide to sell the place.
There has been serious question marks over the long term viability of DSA for a decade, and operator Peel Airports sold the whole site back to its parent Peel Group back in Dec 2012, which being a property development group set off alarm bells then to those with an understanding, which is why all but the terminally blinkered '558 fan, thought it was nuts to land it there for the final time. Peel Group don't need to or want to sell the site, they want to redevelop it for other uses that will earn them money.

106500
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Re: XH558 News

Post by 106500 »

You have to feel sympathy for VTTS. Damned if they do damned if they don’t. Some said land at Brunty others Doncaster. Both seem to have been proven to be unsustainable. They had to put us somewhere. Hopeless situation really.

Smog Monster
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Re: XH558 News

Post by Smog Monster »

Should always have gone to an established museum.

Ken Shabby
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Re: XH558 News

Post by Ken Shabby »

Smog Monster wrote:
Thu 14 Jul 2022, 10:58 am
Should always have gone to an established museum.
The trouble is, if your criteria were a museum that …

1. Must be able to accept delivery by air and sustain a live taxiing operation.
2. Doesn’t already have a Vulcan.

… your choices were pretty limited.

Elvington - but the museum don’t own the runway so there would always have been doubts about any future taxi-runs.

Bruntingthorpe - but there were doubts about the Walton family’s long-term commitment to the site even then.

Yeovilton - but what relevance would a Vulcan be at the Fleet Air Arm museum? Perhaps it could have been tied-in with the Concorde there, somehow, but it would have meant extending the museum site, and who was going to pay for that to accommodate an aircraft with only a tenuous link to the museum’s theme. Public taxi-runs on an active military base would have presented challenges too, I’m sure.

Cornwall or and St Athan - only just getting started at the time, so would have been unknown quantities and a huge risk.

Throw in a desire to restore the Canberra and the apparent HLF requirement to keep the aircraft under cover, then your choices get even more restricted.

I can’t think of anywhere else it could have gone unless VTTS forgot about taxiing or there was a museum prepared to accept an example of an aircraft (owned by someone else) it already had on display.
Ken

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CJS
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Re: XH558 News

Post by CJS »

Unknown74 wrote:
Wed 13 Jul 2022, 9:45 pm
If they were able to move ‘558, would be better going to Elvington?!?!
How would that happen? We all know it'll never fly again: can anyone honestly imagine the cost of taking it to bits and moving it by road? Seems to me the most likely scenario if the airport closes is that some sort of museum can be built around '558, a little like they did at Filton for their Concorde.
"There's only one way of life, and that's your own"

GeeRam
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Re: XH558 News

Post by GeeRam »

Ken Shabby wrote:
Thu 14 Jul 2022, 11:35 am
Yeovilton - but what relevance would a Vulcan be at the Fleet Air Arm museum? Perhaps it could have been tied-in with the Concorde there, somehow, but it would have meant extending the museum site, and who was going to pay for that to accommodate an aircraft with only a tenuous link to the museum’s theme. Public taxi-runs on an active military base would have presented challenges too, I’m sure.
Well, given the pull it had during Yeovilton Air Days as a display item, it has more relevance to Yeovilton than a prototype ever Concorde has, surely? Vulcan could be seen flying around the West Country in service on a very regular basis as well. I can remember caravan holidays in Swanage in the 60's and seeing Vulcan's at very low level howling out of the ranges south of Poole Bay, as well as similar holidays in north Somerset and seeing them every week day, flying at low level over Exmoor, even as late as 1980.

And with Yeovilton remaining one of the few military bases to still have an air display, it could still have been a draw to that, if they could have howled it down the runway during the airshow as part of the display, even if that was the only time a public runway run could have been done.
How many runway runs have they done at DSA in the nearly 7 years since it landed for the last time.....?

The issue with going there would have been the distance from where most of the Vulcan ground crew lived to do anti-det runs on a regular enough basis.
VTTS would have had to let it go though......and folded, which they were never going to do. VTTS only ever wanted what was best for VTTS not what was best for the aircraft.

All rather academic now of course.

reheat module
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Re: XH558 News

Post by reheat module »

Sadly, in 5yrs time I think we'll be shaving with ex-Vulcan razor blades...
Canon systems

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Seahornet
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Re: XH558 News

Post by Seahornet »

reheat module wrote:
Fri 15 Jul 2022, 7:52 pm
Sadly, in 5yrs time I think we'll be shaving with ex-Vulcan razor blades...
Have you ever tried shaving with an aluminium razor blade...? :slight_smile:
And as the smart ship grew,
In stature, grace and hue,
In shadowy silent distance grew the iceberg too....

106500
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Re: XH558 News

Post by 106500 »

CJS wrote:
Fri 15 Jul 2022, 7:03 pm
Unknown74 wrote:
Wed 13 Jul 2022, 9:45 pm
If they were able to move ‘558, would be better going to Elvington?!?!
How would that happen? We all know it'll never fly again: can anyone honestly imagine the cost of taking it to bits and moving it by road? Seems to me the most likely scenario if the airport closes is that some sort of museum can be built around '558, a little like they did at Filton for their Concorde.
I agree that the only feasible solution is that XH558 would become a none working museum piece residing in a ‘Filton type’ hanger on the site at Doncaster. Of course it will end up being all about money but it’s inconceivable that such a celebrated and iconic aircraft could end up being dismantled after such remarkable history and recent renaissance.

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Seahornet
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Re: XH558 News

Post by Seahornet »

Ken Shabby wrote:
Wed 13 Jul 2022, 9:47 pm


If Peel has an agreement with VTTS, they can’t just rip it up because they decide to sell the place....
Yes they can, because they aren't stupid enough to have signed an agreement without a raft of conditions and caveats, allowing for such a contingency.
And as the smart ship grew,
In stature, grace and hue,
In shadowy silent distance grew the iceberg too....

5944
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Re: XH558 News

Post by 5944 »

106500 wrote:
Fri 15 Jul 2022, 11:01 pm
CJS wrote:
Fri 15 Jul 2022, 7:03 pm
Unknown74 wrote:
Wed 13 Jul 2022, 9:45 pm
If they were able to move ‘558, would be better going to Elvington?!?!
How would that happen? We all know it'll never fly again: can anyone honestly imagine the cost of taking it to bits and moving it by road? Seems to me the most likely scenario if the airport closes is that some sort of museum can be built around '558, a little like they did at Filton for their Concorde.
I agree that the only feasible solution is that XH558 would become a none working museum piece residing in a ‘Filton type’ hanger on the site at Doncaster. Of course it will end up being all about money but it’s inconceivable that such a celebrated and iconic aircraft could end up being dismantled after such remarkable history and recent renaissance.
Look up the story of the Warship Preservation Trust. A couple of Falklands veterans, one of the last surviving complete U boats, the last D-Day landing craft. Only LCT7074 survives in decent condition. The rest have either sunk, been scrapped, or dismantled so look nothing like they used to. Vulcan cockpit section on the approach road to the warehouses anyone?

Ken Shabby
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Re: XH558 News

Post by Ken Shabby »

Seahornet wrote:
Sat 16 Jul 2022, 6:37 am
Ken Shabby wrote:
Wed 13 Jul 2022, 9:47 pm


If Peel has an agreement with VTTS, they can’t just rip it up because they decide to sell the place....
Yes they can, because they aren't stupid enough to have signed an agreement without a raft of conditions and caveats, allowing for such a contingency.
My apologies - I didn’t realise you had seen the agreement and the Heritage Lottery Fund, the Charity Commission and the hangar mortgage provide (sadly, no longer required) hadn’t.
Ken

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centaurus18
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Re: XH558 News

Post by centaurus18 »

If it turns out that Navy Wings cannot shift the Sea Vixen out of Yeovilton, I can't see how an unremarkable Vulcan stands any better chance of finding a new home. Remember, both were the last of their kind to fly too.
Mark
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