Flying Legends 2021 - 10th & 11th July at Sywell (Merged)

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Berf
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Re: Flying Legends 2021 - 10th & 11th July at Sywell (Merged)

Post by Berf »

If you look at the map as indicated in a previous post is not the sun behind you most of the day?

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sdad
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Re: Flying Legends 2021 - 10th & 11th July at Sywell (Merged)

Post by sdad »

The sun is never a problem at Sywell, unless it is absent. Take that from a local rather than an app! The map, pretty though it is, has clearly been drawn by someone who has never been to a show there. Fancy thinking that the public will be able to wander across the new taxiway and all around Graceland! Fancy not knowing which runways are used or closed for shows!...

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GeorgeP
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Re: Flying Legends 2021 - 10th & 11th July at Sywell (Merged)

Post by GeorgeP »

Berf wrote:
Sun 08 Nov 2020, 8:28 am
If you look at the map as indicated in a previous post is not the sun behind you most of the day?
My assessment of the sun position and light was made based on my estimate of a 1pm(ish) start time for the airshow. From sdad's response it appears that the sun position isn't a problem.
sdad wrote:
Sun 08 Nov 2020, 9:28 am

The sun is never a problem at Sywell, unless it is absent. Take that from a local rather than an app! ...
Thanks for the information! :thumbsup: Local knowledge is always valuable. If we ever make it over to your part of the world again, I'll plan the timing of the trip to include FL.
Cheers,

George

Melbourne, Australia.

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LN Strike Eagle
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Re: Flying Legends 2021 - 10th & 11th July at Sywell (Merged)

Post by LN Strike Eagle »

What is wrong with the map? The last show at Sywell was 2012 IIRC, and I was there for that one. They seem to have the old showground marked on pretty much as I remember it.

Flying Legends is a bigger show than Sywell has previously hosted and will therefore need a bigger showground, so Scramble’s assumption on the new crowd area looks reasonable to me, and it leaves a grass and hard runway for the airshow to use, as per Duxford.

The sun will be a problem by early afternoon and will worsen as the day wears on.
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Re: Flying Legends 2021 - 10th & 11th July at Sywell (Merged)

Post by GeeRam »

In other better news.......the date clash with the British GP might not now be a problem.

The FIA issued a revised provisional F1 calander a week ago, and the British GP has been moved back one week to the 17th-18th July. I've not seen a date confirmation of that, only that the Hungarian GP is confirmed date of 1st Aug, and the British GP is the GP before it, so based on a 2 week gap, that would be the 17th-18th.

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Re: Flying Legends 2021 - 10th & 11th July at Sywell (Merged)

Post by roger »

I am sure FL and Sywell management must have considered and have tentative solutions for all the issues raised here. We need to be patient to find out what they are.

The Silverstone weekend is not yet confirmed by F1, but Silverstone themselves are selling tickets for the weekend of 9 - 11 July, so they must have some confidence in the dates.

I am surprised no-one has suggested the 14/32 runway as the display line - seems to solve most of the issues raised leaving an awful lot of the Sywell airside estate for the public, but at the expense of not being able to use the hard runway. Maybe the larger a/c that normally use the hard at Duxford (e.g. Sally B) would continue to operate from there anyway?

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Re: Flying Legends 2021 - 10th & 11th July at Sywell (Merged)

Post by SEMAE »

Looking at Google maps landscape view it appears runway 14/32 no longer exists.

However, possibly you could still use the hard runway and the strip beside it for landings and take offs but use the old runway 14/32 area for the display datum.

The space available at the very closest point to the datum would be small in length but you would not need to get close to the front there to take ground to air photos.

It would also mean there will be plenty of space to get take off and landings, though it would mean pointing your camera toward the runway and then turn at a right angle to take ground to air photos.

However, you may also have to consider just how close you want to be to the flying element which may depend on the direction of landings and take offs on the day.

Although any runway shots will increasingly be in to the sun, the flying element will have the sun behnd you all day.

If the datum is at a slight diagonal to the old runway 14/32, the the potential of a very nice bend round the crowd line when the aircraft display.

Martin Eames

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Re: Flying Legends 2021 - 10th & 11th July at Sywell (Merged)

Post by roger »

I was looking at the Google Earth images, which are dated 31 May this year, and runway 14/32 is clearly marked out on the grass. The runway is also listed on the Sywell Aerodrome webpage and airfield layout plans.

But yes, I was suggesting it as the display line, rather than the active runway.

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The Baron
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Re: Flying Legends 2021 - 10th & 11th July at Sywell (Merged)

Post by The Baron »

sdad wrote:
Sat 07 Nov 2020, 6:50 pm
The Baron wrote:
Sat 07 Nov 2020, 6:00 pm
snookered coming from the South West. Should have gone for later in July.
M5, M42, M6, A14, A43 Surely!
Not from where I'm coming, the M5 isn't an option.
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Re: Flying Legends 2021 - 10th & 11th July at Sywell (Merged)

Post by ZRX61 »

Maybe time for TFC to take over an old disused WWII airfield... & chose a different date.

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Re: Flying Legends 2021 - 10th & 11th July at Sywell (Merged)

Post by GeeRam »

ZRX61 wrote:
Tue 10 Nov 2020, 12:17 am
Maybe time for TFC to take over an old disused WWII airfield... & chose a different date.
Virtually none left now, and none left that have been in constant aviation use that the local NIMBYS wouldn't make it impossible to activate as an airfield again.
Shame all the warbird operators didn't get together and buy RAF Bicester when MOD put it up for sale years ago, as it would have been perfect for everyone to have moved into and created economies of scale for everything being in one place, plus being able to hold an airshow if desired. Ideal central location, WW2 grass airfield etc.

Scampton is probably the only other option but I suspect hardly going to be cheap to buy and operate, given its size etc.

20 years ago, there would have been some ex-8th & 9th AF WW2 base sites that could have been a possibility, but not any more.

However, with the best years of UK airshows long behind us, maybe its all not much of an issue in the grand scheme of things?

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Re: Flying Legends 2021 - 10th & 11th July at Sywell (Merged)

Post by Mike »

rob68 wrote:
Fri 06 Nov 2020, 11:47 pm
F1 at Silverstone is currently same weekend...
According to the 2021 F1 calendar published today, the British GP at Silverstone is on 18th July, not 11th

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Re: Flying Legends 2021 - 10th & 11th July at Sywell (Merged)

Post by GeeRam »

Mike wrote:
Tue 10 Nov 2020, 10:12 am
rob68 wrote:
Fri 06 Nov 2020, 11:47 pm
F1 at Silverstone is currently same weekend...
According to the 2021 F1 calendar published today, the British GP at Silverstone is on 18th July, not 11th
Yes, see my earlier post made on Sunday.

Silverstone website still showing as old date though, but they are notoriously inept at updating their websites.

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Re: Flying Legends 2021 - 10th & 11th July at Sywell (Merged)

Post by SEMAE »

roger wrote:
Mon 09 Nov 2020, 8:13 pm
I was looking at the Google Earth images, which are dated 31 May this year, and runway 14/32 is clearly marked out on the grass. The runway is also listed on the Sywell Aerodrome webpage and airfield layout plans.

But yes, I was suggesting it as the display line, rather than the active runway.
Yes. Now that I have looked on Google Earth, as you say runway 14/32 is clearly marked.

Thanks

Martin

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Re: Flying Legends 2021 - 10th & 11th July at Sywell (Merged)

Post by ZRX61 »

GeeRam wrote:
Tue 10 Nov 2020, 9:24 am
Virtually none left now, and none left that have been in constant aviation use that the local NIMBYS wouldn't make it impossible to activate as an airfield again.
Shame all the warbird operators didn't get together and buy RAF Bicester when MOD put it up for sale years ago, as it would have been perfect for everyone to have moved into and created economies of scale for everything being in one place, plus being able to hold an airshow if desired. Ideal central location, WW2 grass airfield etc.
There still a few, they're just not in the right place. Step-bro flies out of Davidstow which still has the runways & peritrack etc, but some pillock ran a road right through the middle of it... Then there's a few in Norfolk buried under tons of turkey poop... Too many rectangular *forests* on others (Shepherds Grove etc). What was the one that's become a center for car restoration etc.. was that Bassingbourn?
Is Long Marston still a drag strip? I noticed some blithering idiot has dug up Alconbury...

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Re: Flying Legends 2021 - 10th & 11th July at Sywell (Merged)

Post by GeeRam »

ZRX61 wrote:
Tue 10 Nov 2020, 7:33 pm
What was the one that's become a center for car restoration etc.. was that Bassingbourn?
Is Long Marston still a drag strip? I noticed some blithering idiot has dug up Alconbury...
Bassingbourn (what left of it) is all still an Army Barracks and training area.

I think you thinking of RAF Bicester, which was sold by MOD to a group that has created Bicester Heritage, which is predominately now housing vintage car companies involved in restoration and storage etc. They've restored at lot of the buildings though. At least its not being turned into a housing estate like so many of them in the past decade of more, like Oakington and a few others, and including the other one you mentioned, Long Marston.
Boreham has now gone as well, which for many decades after the war was owned by Ford and the base for their competition department. They sold it off some years back, and its now all been dug up for gravel.
Watton has all gone now as well in the past 10 years.

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Re: Flying Legends 2021 - 10th & 11th July at Sywell (Merged)

Post by Blackbird »

What about Woodbridge or Wethersfield?

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Re: Flying Legends 2021 - 10th & 11th July at Sywell (Merged)

Post by GeeRam »

Blackbird wrote:
Tue 10 Nov 2020, 8:46 pm
What about Woodbridge or Wethersfield?
Wethersfield is due to be sold off by MOD around mid 2020's IIRC.

I'm sure that'll end up being another housing estate.

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Re: Flying Legends 2021 - 10th & 11th July at Sywell (Merged)

Post by ZRX61 »

GeeRam wrote:
Tue 10 Nov 2020, 8:44 pm
I think you thinking of RAF Bicester, which was sold by MOD to a group that has created Bicester Heritage, which is predominately now housing vintage car companies involved in restoration and storage etc. They've restored at lot of the buildings though.
Ah yes, that's the one I was thinking of. Good location though, but no hard runways... Hinton In The Hedges looks doable, altho a certain family of Chino pilots may think it's a piss take ;)
Weathersfield would be perfect, it's *intact*
Is there any reason Northweald can't be used?

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Re: Flying Legends 2021 - 10th & 11th July at Sywell (Merged)

Post by GeeRam »

ZRX61 wrote:
Wed 11 Nov 2020, 1:50 am
Is there any reason Northweald can't be used?
Post Shoreham regs pretty much rule it out now, along with the new base for Essex Air Ambulance on site, and not to mention the local NIMBYS, as well as greater ATC issues with proximity to Stansted which wasn't so much an issue in the days of Fighter Meet 30-35 years ago.
ZRX61 wrote:
Wed 11 Nov 2020, 1:50 am
Weathersfield would be perfect, it's *intact*
It would indeed. All it needs is money :laughing:

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Re: Flying Legends 2021 - 10th & 11th July at Sywell (Merged)

Post by TEXANTOMCAT »

Access to Hinton is up a single track road through a farm and the site is smaller than Sywell🙂

The Aerodrome HAS held many events in recent years and 6 airshows from 2004-2014 with a Max of around 8/9k attending.

The Aerodrome staff are well versed in events. The FL team have been running Legends for 20 years. It’s not their first rodeo. There will inevitably some bedding in time and things will go wrong and need improvement as with any event held for the first time at a new venue.

I’m quite sure that TFC considered many options before settling on Sywell and this was the venue they thought was the best fit.

The alternative was no more Legends!

Here’s to some positive vibes that actually it might be quite good!

TT

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Re: Flying Legends 2021 - 10th & 11th July at Sywell (Merged)

Post by pbeardmore »

The business model for Bicester seems to be working well and I often wonder if a similar model could be used re classic aviation (and cars?).

Classic operators pay private rates at locations such as Goodwood, Biggin Hill and North Weald. One wonders if they would pay the same rates but be based somewhere that would offer better levels of support re their specific needs? If the location was historic with an aim to maintain the location, then some form of gov/lottery funding could be available (just idle day dream)
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Re: Flying Legends 2021 - 10th & 11th July at Sywell (Merged)

Post by ZRX61 »

pbeardmore wrote:
Wed 11 Nov 2020, 12:11 pm
The business model for Bicester seems to be working well and I often wonder if a similar model could be used re classic aviation (and cars?).

Classic operators pay private rates at locations such as Goodwood, Biggin Hill and North Weald. One wonders if they would pay the same rates but be based somewhere that would offer better levels of support re their specific needs? If the location was historic with an aim to maintain the location, then some form of gov/lottery funding could be available (just idle day dream)
I thought that was pretty much the non-IWM business plan at DX in the first place & was what attracted TFC, ARCo & OFMC etc to the airfield originally. I would imagine IWM might change their tune if they thought the flying & resto guys might up sticks & bugger off... which would admittedly be a HUGE undertaking & highly unlikely.. & might be causing the newer management at Dx to play silly buggers with the tenents? Didn't they hire some newby gal with no background in the biz a while back?

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Re: Flying Legends 2021 - 10th & 11th July at Sywell (Merged)

Post by GeeRam »

ZRX61 wrote:
Thu 12 Nov 2020, 5:04 am
I thought that was pretty much the non-IWM business plan at DX in the first place & was what attracted TFC, ARCo & OFMC etc to the airfield originally. I would imagine IWM might change their tune if they thought the flying & resto guys might up sticks & bugger off... which would admittedly be a HUGE undertaking & highly unlikely.. & might be causing the newer management at Dx to play silly buggers with the tenents? Didn't they hire some newby gal with no background in the biz a while back?
None of the operators/restorers have made any public comments about moving away from DX, even TFC have said that's not their intention.....

However, in the circumstances you wouldn't expect them to say anything, but, I would also expect them to be doing due diligence, and be investigating options now as to possible future alternatives, should any further deterioration in relationship with the new young IWM management (or jacked up costs) occur.

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Re: Flying Legends 2021 - 10th & 11th July at Sywell (Merged)

Post by pbeardmore »

The clever thing about Bicester is bringing in all of the support services and skills that exist around the industry onto one site (nothing like Duxford), this must be great for all involved. Plus they also focus on education and apprenticeships. Looking at theior website, they are clearly on an upward spiral (in contrast to Duxford IMHO)
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