The UKAR politics thread

Chat about anything not specifically aviation related
Post Reply
User avatar
Brevet Cable
Posts: 13179
Joined: Tue 05 Mar 2013, 12:13 pm

Re: 2019 General Election

Post by Brevet Cable »

Paul_Reflex wrote:Do you mean for terrorism cases, or more generally?

Generally.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the current system split into two for determinate ( fixed term ) sentences...up to one ( or is it two ) years and over one ( two? ) years?
I can see the reasoning for automatic release after serving half the sentence for the first category, but not for the second.

Southendnick wrote:All these terrorists Corbyn was returned to the UK should automatically have 30 years to life better still bring the gallows back let them swing.


Auf Englisch, bitte.
Tôi chỉ đặt cái này ở đây để giữ cho người điều hành bận rộn
아직도 숨어있다

User avatar
Paul_Reflex
Posts: 604
Joined: Sat 31 Dec 2011, 10:31 am

Re: 2019 General Election

Post by Paul_Reflex »

That gets a bit complicated, but you’re broadly right about which sentences go through the parole process. It’s complicated in the real world mainly because of concurrent/consecutive sentencing. Thanks Brevet, I can’t really give my view on policy atm, but it’s interesting to hear other people’s views.

Finningley Boy
Posts: 3169
Joined: Sun 12 Oct 2008, 10:07 am

Re: 2019 General Election

Post by Finningley Boy »

Paul_Reflex wrote:That gets a bit complicated, but you’re broadly right about which sentences go through the parole process. It’s complicated in the real world mainly because of concurrent/consecutive sentencing. Thanks Brevet, I can’t really give my view on policy atm, but it’s interesting to hear other people’s views.

Why can't you give your view on policy atm, are you a prospective MP? :cuppa:
Let me guess, Brexit Party! :biggrin:

FB
I have danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings!

User avatar
Paul_Reflex
Posts: 604
Joined: Sat 31 Dec 2011, 10:31 am

Re: 2019 General Election

Post by Paul_Reflex »

No, just a civil servant. The purdah rules are quite rigidly enforced in some cases these days. I’ve not thought of standing for the Brexit party, but I did have an uncle who used to cross out all of the candidates names on his ballot paper and write Enoch Powell in every box instead. :lol:

Finningley Boy
Posts: 3169
Joined: Sun 12 Oct 2008, 10:07 am

Re: 2019 General Election

Post by Finningley Boy »

Paul_Reflex wrote:No, just a civil servant. The purdah rules are quite rigidly enforced in some cases these days. I’ve not thought of standing for the Brexit party, but I did have an uncle who used to cross out all of the candidates names on his ballot paper and write Enoch Powell in every box instead. :lol:

I did that as well even when he wasn't standing in any constituency. :biggrin:

FB :cuppa:
I have danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings!

User avatar
CJS
Posts: 7373
Joined: Thu 15 Jul 2010, 3:30 pm
Location: Hogwarts

Re: 2019 General Election

Post by CJS »

Paul_Reflex wrote:No, just a civil servant. The purdah rules are quite rigidly enforced in some cases these days. I’ve not thought of standing for the Brexit party, but I did have an uncle who used to cross out all of the candidates names on his ballot paper and write Enoch Powell in every box instead. :lol:


If you post anonymously, does that make a difference? I mean, if your profile name doesn't reveal who you are - for example I know that Brevet Cable (sorry Brevet...) isn't actually his real name, so if he was a civil servant would he be able to get around it that way?
"Forewarned is forearmed"
How do you know I didn't?

User avatar
Paul_Reflex
Posts: 604
Joined: Sat 31 Dec 2011, 10:31 am

Re: 2019 General Election

Post by Paul_Reflex »

You could get around it Chris, but I think purdah is quite sensible. I don’t think that people employed directly by govt departments have any business discussing party politics or policy around an election.

User avatar
CJS
Posts: 7373
Joined: Thu 15 Jul 2010, 3:30 pm
Location: Hogwarts

Re: 2019 General Election

Post by CJS »

Paul_Reflex wrote:You could get around it Chris, but I think purdah is quite sensible. I don’t think that people employed directly by govt departments have any business discussing party politics or policy around an election.


Very true. Does it apply to everyone employed by the state or just those working directly due govt departments? Does it, in theory, apply to me as a teacher?

Ignore my waffle, I've looked it up :up:
"Forewarned is forearmed"
How do you know I didn't?

Finningley Boy
Posts: 3169
Joined: Sun 12 Oct 2008, 10:07 am

Re: 2019 General Election

Post by Finningley Boy »

Nicola Sturgeon is calling for a law to protect the NHS from Johnson and Trump..... So is that one or two Strawmen? They have both committed themselves beyond any question to refrain from any further privatization of the NHS. They have both been categorical. And anyway, who's going to introduce this highly personal, assuming and pejorative law? As seems most likely, it'll be PM Johnson post 12th December 2019. :roll:

FB :cuppa:
I have danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings!

User avatar
DerekF
Posts: 4728
Joined: Sun 07 Sep 2008, 7:54 am
Location: Handforth, Cheshire, UK

Re: 2019 General Election

Post by DerekF »

Trump and Johnson cannot be trusted to do what they say they'll do. That's why the opposition try and pass laws to force their hand. Not so long ago their word would have been enough. Not any more, not with these two serial liars.

Finningley Boy
Posts: 3169
Joined: Sun 12 Oct 2008, 10:07 am

Re: 2019 General Election

Post by Finningley Boy »

DerekF wrote:Trump and Johnson cannot be trusted to do what they say they'll do. That's why the opposition try and pass laws to force their hand. Not so long ago their word would have been enough. Not any more, not with these two serial liars.

Mind you they both can't be that deranged as to imagine their clear and abundant recorded confirmatory statements to the contrary, mean that, at least in Johnson's case, they/he must understand that should they now attempt renege, Johnson in particular will see his name ruined, his tenure as PM denounced and the Conservatives finished once and for all. Unless circumstances are unarguably beyond anyone's control which may determine a different outcome?

FB :cuppa:
I have danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings!

User avatar
Brevet Cable
Posts: 13179
Joined: Tue 05 Mar 2013, 12:13 pm

Re: 2019 General Election

Post by Brevet Cable »

All this was inspired by the principle—which is quite true within itself—that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods.

It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.


:whistle:
Tôi chỉ đặt cái này ở đây để giữ cho người điều hành bận rộn
아직도 숨어있다

User avatar
Mooshie1956
Posts: 1457
Joined: Wed 01 Jun 2011, 11:46 am
Location: Manchester

Re: 2019 General Election

Post by Mooshie1956 »

Finningley Boy wrote:
DerekF wrote:Trump and Johnson cannot be trusted to do what they say they'll do. That's why the opposition try and pass laws to force their hand. Not so long ago their word would have been enough. Not any more, not with these two serial liars.

Mind you they both can't be that deranged as to imagine their clear and abundant recorded confirmatory statements to the contrary, mean that, at least in Johnson's case, they/he must understand that should they now attempt renege, Johnson in particular will see his name ruined, his tenure as PM denounced and the Conservatives finished once and for all. Unless circumstances are unarguably beyond anyone's control which may determine a different outcome?

FB :cuppa:


I think I would tend to agree with FB on this, I can't see BJ flogging off the NHS as it would be political suicide. I also think he has enough worries with Brexit if it all goes tits up.
My Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/mooshie1956/
Panny G80 12-60 Lens
Panny 100-400 Lens
Olympus 60 Macro Lens

User avatar
rockfordstone
Posts: 841
Joined: Wed 14 Feb 2018, 8:40 pm
Contact:

Re: 2019 General Election

Post by rockfordstone »

Finningley Boy wrote:
DerekF wrote:Trump and Johnson cannot be trusted to do what they say they'll do. That's why the opposition try and pass laws to force their hand. Not so long ago their word would have been enough. Not any more, not with these two serial liars.

Mind you they both can't be that deranged as to imagine their clear and abundant recorded confirmatory statements to the contrary, mean that, at least in Johnson's case, they/he must understand that should they now attempt renege, Johnson in particular will see his name ruined, his tenure as PM denounced and the Conservatives finished once and for all. Unless circumstances are unarguably beyond anyone's control which may determine a different outcome?

FB :cuppa:


Trump said today he never wanted the NHS, he didn't know where the rumour came from. It was him, clearly saying everything was on the table. He would flip back around and say "but I never said we didn't want the NHS, Boris, I don't know the guy but the NHS was always on the table" and his base would lap it up.

Boris, well he is a serial liar, he has as a journalist written lies that saw him sacked, he has lied to multiple wives, he has lied to the queen and spaffed lots of public money up the wall and that hasn't affected his standing amongst his base. there is no way he will walk away from the table during negotiations with the USA, he's not a strong leader, he will give away the crown jewels if he has to. he probably won't have a choice because the USA will crush us in negotiations.

In any normal political era, the actions of, or even the accusations aimed at these men would have seen them step down or at the very least discredited. now it just enforces the narrative that they are men of the people.

If we sold off or privatised the NHS 10 years ago it would have caused anarchy. these days it could be spun and sold to people as a great plan and they would lap it up. a large chunk of people would support it because "it upsets lefties and I love lefty tears"

User avatar
rockfordstone
Posts: 841
Joined: Wed 14 Feb 2018, 8:40 pm
Contact:

Re: 2019 General Election

Post by rockfordstone »

Mooshie1956 wrote:
Finningley Boy wrote:
DerekF wrote:Trump and Johnson cannot be trusted to do what they say they'll do. That's why the opposition try and pass laws to force their hand. Not so long ago their word would have been enough. Not any more, not with these two serial liars.

Mind you they both can't be that deranged as to imagine their clear and abundant recorded confirmatory statements to the contrary, mean that, at least in Johnson's case, they/he must understand that should they now attempt renege, Johnson in particular will see his name ruined, his tenure as PM denounced and the Conservatives finished once and for all. Unless circumstances are unarguably beyond anyone's control which may determine a different outcome?

FB :cuppa:


I think I would tend to agree with FB on this, I can't see BJ flogging off the NHS as it would be political suicide. I also think he has enough worries with Brexit if it all goes tits up.

if brexit goes tits up it will get blamed on EU intransigence, then because of remain parliament, then remainers giving the EU false hope so they didn't negotiate in good faith and eventually it will be our fault for voting to leave.

he'll step down before it goes tits up anyway, he'll say "i delivered on the will of the people". and leave someone else to deal with it and then heckle from the sidelines with Farage. nothing sticks to him.

Bobby Marley
Posts: 166
Joined: Fri 01 Nov 2019, 11:21 pm

Re: 2019 General Election

Post by Bobby Marley »

Look its quite simple - the Tories Have to go - there should be a vote of no faith by means of no one voting for them, they are without doubt the worse of the lot, I know the rest have thier own issues but nothing compaied to the Tories.

We simply can not have another term with the Tories in power, I dont want to get into a debate of who to pick instead lets get the Tories out first - that should be priority.

BM.

User avatar
Spiny Norman
Posts: 3080
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 10:17 am

Re: 2019 General Election

Post by Spiny Norman »

Bobby Marley wrote:Look its quite simple - the Tories Have to go - there should be a vote of no faith by means of no one voting for them, they are without doubt the worse of the lot, I know the rest have thier own issues but nothing compaied to the Tories.

We simply can not have another term with the Tories in power, I dont want to get into a debate of who to pick instead lets get the Tories out first - that should be priority.

BM.


It used to be that governments were judged on their record. If so, no one could justify voting for the Conservatives.

They created Brexit,they allowed it to happen and are solely responsible for all the chaos. They have elected as their leader a patently inept, bumbling, racist leader who intends to sell off the NHS.

parsley
UKAR Supporter
Posts: 973
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 10:49 pm
Location: Just east of a large airport in West London

Re: 2019 General Election

Post by parsley »

rockfordstone wrote:
Finningley Boy wrote:
DerekF wrote:
Trump said today he never wanted the NHS, he didn't know where the rumour came from. It was him, clearly saying everything was on the table. He would flip back around and say "but I never said we didn't want the NHS, Boris, I don't know the guy but the NHS was always on the table" and his base would lap it up.




Indeed Trump did say that on his previous visit to the UK earlier this year...it was also stated by the US Ambassador to the UK in an interview with Andrew Marr on his Sunday morning TV show shortly before Trump arrived here then - from memory it was with regards to a trade deal "everything on the table including the NHS"

User avatar
pbeardmore
Posts: 4320
Joined: Thu 06 Nov 2008, 9:16 am

Re: 2019 General Election

Post by pbeardmore »

I think what Trump has proved is that there is a chunk of the electorate who just dont care. You can say basically anything you want and you can tell the most enormous lies. As long as you represent their core values and do a great job of slagging off the opposition ("lock her up"), then you will be elected.

BJ has clearly learned from this. We all should. In a way, Trump has done us a favour. Previously, we took it for granted that voters in general cared about the truth, standards, dignity etc etc but it's clearly not true. If it was, BJ would have zero chance of being PM. But he's going to walk it.
“The best computer is a man, and it’s the only one that can be mass-produced by unskilled labour.”

Finningley Boy
Posts: 3169
Joined: Sun 12 Oct 2008, 10:07 am

Re: 2019 General Election

Post by Finningley Boy »

pbeardmore wrote:I think what Trump has proved is that there is a chunk of the electorate who just dont care. You can say basically anything you want and you can tell the most enormous lies. As long as you represent their core values and do a great job of slagging off the opposition ("lock her up"), then you will be elected.

BJ has clearly learned from this. We all should. In a way, Trump has done us a favour. Previously, we took it for granted that voters in general cared about the truth, standards, dignity etc etc but it's clearly not true. If it was, BJ would have zero chance of being PM. But he's going to walk it.

You may be right about Trump and Johnson, but one of the reasons for their electoral success is people were fed up of the patronising lies, or rather deliberate evasion and obfuscation of just about every politician whenever a microphone was place in front of them.
Another, rightly or wrongly, people liked the blunt nature of Trump, it was a change from the round the houses mantras we're all used to. Telling lies as a matter of routine, nothing new!

FB :cuppa:
I have danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings!

User avatar
Brevet Cable
Posts: 13179
Joined: Tue 05 Mar 2013, 12:13 pm

Re: 2019 General Election

Post by Brevet Cable »

To quote a Valleyite during one of the phone-ins the other week ( speaking to the Welsh Labour representative ) : "We're going to make sure you get a right kicking again in this Election because you patronise and ignore us all the time, and your policies - especially transport - hit the poorest the hardest"
With a lot of the other callers it was a case of "I've always voted Labour, my parents and grandparents always voted Labour, but not this time..."

Whether they follow through on those threats is another matter, but time was that you'd rarely - if ever - hear such sentiments expressed by people from that area.
Tôi chỉ đặt cái này ở đây để giữ cho người điều hành bận rộn
아직도 숨어있다

User avatar
pbeardmore
Posts: 4320
Joined: Thu 06 Nov 2008, 9:16 am

Re: 2019 General Election

Post by pbeardmore »

Yes, I think the GE is pretty much done and dusted and we can move on to consider how the Labour Party will react. So many within the middle ground have left the party, it's hard to predict how a leadership battle would look. And will Corbyn resign with dignity or go down fighting?
“The best computer is a man, and it’s the only one that can be mass-produced by unskilled labour.”

User avatar
Southendnick
Posts: 2068
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 8:30 am
Location: Southend-on-Sea

Re: 2019 General Election

Post by Southendnick »

It WILL be a Labour/SNP/LibDem coalition, Corbyn will claim a new Brexit deal that will see the result "honoured" (at least in his head) that will see the UK "exit" the EU but remain in the customs union and single market, resulting in the UK having to follow all EU rules and regulation but without a say in what they are, the national veto will be stripped away from the UK, and the rebate will be withdrawn, payments will increase by 5%, we will not be able to strike trade deals outside the EU and we will have to leave boarders open to any and all EU citizens.

The nationalisation of Gas, Water and Leccy will go massively over budget as companies demand a fair price (at present labour say they will choose a price) the courts are bogged down in cases, the Red Rag Broadband results in all the other suppliers close down their services as they can't compete with a government funded free service, resulting the over 150,000 job losses.

With the railways back under state control and the Trade Unions Bill scrapped, the unions seize the opportunity to hold the government over a barrel and call a full national strike with all public sector works coming out, union demands are three day working week, 50% pay increase and more paid holidays. The dead go un buried, the rubbish piles up the 1978/79 winter of discontent looks like a pleasant summers day compared to the Ice Age Winter of Depression and Death or 2019/20.

Corbyn will persecute the Armed Forces, and disarm the police, ex-squaddies will be given over to the courts whilst IRA terrorists will remain free,
Spelling mistakes and grammatical error specialist

http://www.southendtimeline.com

User avatar
aceyone
Posts: 2745
Joined: Tue 23 Jun 2009, 12:25 pm
Location: Bromley Kent

Re: 2019 General Election

Post by aceyone »

Southendnick wrote:It WILL be a Labour/SNP/LibDem coalition, Corbyn will claim a new Brexit deal that will see the result "honoured" (at least in his head) that will see the UK "exit" the EU but remain in the customs union and single market, resulting in the UK having to follow all EU rules and regulation but without a say in what they are, the national veto will be stripped away from the UK, and the rebate will be withdrawn, payments will increase by 5%, we will not be able to strike trade deals outside the EU and we will have to leave boarders open to any and all EU citizens.

The nationalisation of Gas, Water and Leccy will go massively over budget as companies demand a fair price (at present labour say they will choose a price) the courts are bogged down in cases, the Red Rag Broadband results in all the other suppliers close down their services as they can't compete with a government funded free service, resulting the over 150,000 job losses.

With the railways back under state control and the Trade Unions Bill scrapped, the unions seize the opportunity to hold the government over a barrel and call a full national strike with all public sector works coming out, union demands are three day working week, 50% pay increase and more paid holidays. The dead go un buried, the rubbish piles up the 1978/79 winter of discontent looks like a pleasant summers day compared to the Ice Age Winter of Depression and Death or 2019/20.

Corbyn will persecute the Armed Forces, and disarm the police, ex-squaddies will be given over to the courts whilst IRA terrorists will remain free,


"Forty years of darkness. Earthquakes, volcanoes...

The dead rising from the grave.

Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies. Rivers and seas boiling.

Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats, living together! Mass hysteria!" :grin:
Don't know about those jets ,they spoil a very nice place

Elliott Marsh
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri 19 Aug 2016, 11:02 am

Re: 2019 General Election

Post by Elliott Marsh »

Southendnick wrote:*/fear*


Old Nan lives!

“They swept through cities and kingdoms, riding their dead horses, hunting with their packs of pale spiders big as hounds…”

Post Reply