Cornwall aviation heritage centre

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cometguymk1
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Cornwall aviation heritage centre

Post by cometguymk1 »

There is suddenly a lot of chatter on facebook saying that CAHC will be shutting at the end of this season due to a loss of income. Big shame if so as looked to have a nice collection building there.

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rockfordstone
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Re: Cornwall aviation heritage centre

Post by rockfordstone »

cometguymk1 wrote:
Wed 31 Aug 2022, 2:10 pm
There is suddenly a lot of chatter on facebook saying that CAHC will be shutting at the end of this season due to a loss of income. Big shame if so as looked to have a nice collection building there.
Some of the chatter i've read is that the council have withdrawn funding and told them and several other museums, and then told them to get off the site. If true its a massive shame. Some lovely displays there and some really good volunteers

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Archer
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Re: Cornwall aviation heritage centre

Post by Archer »

I read that the council has canceled their lease at Newquay. See here:

If true, that would be a sad development. I'm sure the financial situation isn't great, but that is the case for a lot of the tourist/hospitality/other industry. I should hope that a council would be able to look past this and support a local tourist attraction.

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Professor_M
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Re: Cornwall aviation heritage centre

Post by Professor_M »

Awful news if true, a rapidly growing collection (perhaps only beaten by St Athan in that respect).

I'm hoping that with the close relationship the museum has with JARTS, a move onto MoD land might be possible at RAF St Mawgan?

Failing that, looking at the collection list, I especially hope the following survive:
BAC 1-11 ZH763 - Last British 1-11 to fly, only ex-military 1-11 left in the UK.
BP Balliol T2 - A rare type, presumably easy to move by road.
Panavia Tornado GR4 ZA498 'Shiny Two' - Given they have only just reapplied the special tail scheme, it would be good to see it survive.

All the others would be a shame to lose, but are replicated elsewhere in other museums in the UK. (I am perhaps looking a long way down the line to scrapping - perhaps too far away at the moment).

Given all of them but the 1-11 and VC10 came in by road, I think, hopefully they can all easily be taken away again and disperse to new owners - if the VC10 goes, it would be another dent in the UK population number for the type, but perhaps with the pie-in-the-sky VC10 return to flight, it might need dismantling for spares anyway or alternatively be kept in a good condition by GJD somewhere - they have got VC10 road move experience after all.

My biggest worry, beside the sad loss of another collection, is for the 1-11 - but hopefully it will survive in one piece - the ex-BA collection one did make a road move from Cosford to Scotland after all.

Perhaps Richard Branson would like a small heritage collection to go with his Spaceport work on the airfield, in the name of community outreach and engagement.

Let's wait and see how the coming months unfold...

Mike
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Re: Cornwall aviation heritage centre

Post by Mike »

Professor_M wrote:
Wed 31 Aug 2022, 3:15 pm
the pie-in-the-sky VC10 return to flight,
You mean the ones that were scrapped at Bruntingthorpe?

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Professor_M
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Re: Cornwall aviation heritage centre

Post by Professor_M »

Mike wrote:
Wed 31 Aug 2022, 3:35 pm
Professor_M wrote:
Wed 31 Aug 2022, 3:15 pm
the pie-in-the-sky VC10 return to flight,
You mean the ones that were scrapped at Bruntingthorpe?
Yes, plus the one at Dunsfold (the one I think was actually meant to fly) and Newquay's example. I thought the Bruntingthorpe ones were only for spares so being scrapped, some parts might still have been reclaimed for use in the project.

106500
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Re: Cornwall aviation heritage centre

Post by 106500 »

Sad news. As I recall, Cornwall Council originally threw them out of hanger 404 at St Mawgan. The council down here has a bad reputation amongst council tax payers and it’s not really surprising episodes like this happen.

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Brevet Cable
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Re: Cornwall aviation heritage centre

Post by Brevet Cable »

Perhaps Richard Branson would like a small heritage collection to go with his Spaceport work on the airfield, in the name of community outreach and engagement.
He'll be too busy saving XH558 :smiling_imp:

I wonder - if, as you say, it's true - how many of the airframes will end up at SWAM, given that they already have a fair number of Hunters, JPs, Hawks, Tornados, Pembrokes & Canberras ( and they've also already got a Fred too ) ?

Edited to add...
Forgot to say that 2 of the most recent arrivals at SWAM ( Jaguar & Harrier ) came from a bit further South in Cornwall - RNAS Predannack
Tôi chỉ đặt cái này ở đây để giữ cho người điều hành bận rộn
아직도 숨어있다

Marka1967
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Re: Cornwall aviation heritage centre

Post by Marka1967 »

Well if it is true that's buggered Nimrod XV232 move there.

purple_95
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Re: Cornwall aviation heritage centre

Post by purple_95 »

This has sadly been in the offing for some time now, the museum and the council have been in talks over the ongoing rent for the site since early this year. The plan to move the Nimrod to CAHC was of course dependant on a new rental agreement between the museum and the council, and enough money being raised to actually move the Nimrod as the hope is wherever it ends up ground running can continue.

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PeteM
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Re: Cornwall aviation heritage centre

Post by PeteM »

rockfordstone wrote:
Wed 31 Aug 2022, 2:15 pm
cometguymk1 wrote:
Wed 31 Aug 2022, 2:10 pm
There is suddenly a lot of chatter on facebook saying that CAHC will be shutting at the end of this season due to a loss of income. Big shame if so as looked to have a nice collection building there.
Some of the chatter i've read is that the council have withdrawn funding and told them and several other museums, and then told them to get off the site. If true its a massive shame. Some lovely displays there and some really good volunteers
CAHC receives no support from the council and apart from government covid grants has been / is entirely self supporting and viable.
It would appear that the Council want the HAS site back for an unknown reason - they won't talk to anyone.

Homes will be found for some airframes but the future of some of the larger aircraft is worrying.

FGR2
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Re: Cornwall aviation heritage centre

Post by FGR2 »

When I visited a year ago, a volunteer said the council were trying to whack up the rent.

It would seem they have no interest in the value to the community and history, it is either down to hard cash and/or wanting them out. What is happening with Gate Guardians I wonder, or Rosalie or the other airframes from Long Marston or JARTS.

I suppose the only hope is Cornwall Council U-turn under pressure or the MOD allocate some land as a kind of station heritage area. I know the MOD retained two HAS their size of the fence, but don’t know what they are used for.

EGDR
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Re: Cornwall aviation heritage centre

Post by EGDR »

Professor_M wrote:
Wed 31 Aug 2022, 3:15 pm

Perhaps Richard Branson would like a small heritage collection to go with his Spaceport work on the airfield, in the name of community outreach and engagement.

I know the reference to Branson himself is slightly tongue in cheek, but just pointing out that Spaceport Cornwall is its own thing, with its own CEO and management, with whom Virgin Orbit are partners, rather than Virgin itself running the spaceport.

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Professor_M
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Re: Cornwall aviation heritage centre

Post by Professor_M »

FGR2 wrote:
Wed 31 Aug 2022, 6:27 pm
When I visited a year ago, a volunteer said the council were trying to whack up the rent.

It would seem they have no interest in the value to the community and history, it is either down to hard cash and/or wanting them out. What is happening with Gate Guardians I wonder, or Rosalie or the other airframes from Long Marston or JARTS.

I suppose the only hope is Cornwall Council U-turn under pressure or the MOD allocate some land as a kind of station heritage area. I know the MOD retained two HAS their size of the fence, but don’t know what they are used for.
Perhaps a collection of aircraft primarily used for JARTS work, but with a secondary purpose of museum/ collection.

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jingernut
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Re: Cornwall aviation heritage centre

Post by jingernut »

Petition is up to try and help... not sure what help it will be but signed it anyway.

https://www.change.org/p/save-cornwall- ... age-centre

FGR2
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Re: Cornwall aviation heritage centre

Post by FGR2 »

Signed as well. I have also drafted an email and going to send that to the leader/Deputy Leader and Economic bloke who has involvement with Newquay airport.

Worth trying anything I suppose. If they get enough resistance maybe they will take a second look.

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aviationanoraks
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Re: Cornwall aviation heritage centre

Post by aviationanoraks »

Signed as well, even though I have serious doubts petitions do any good nowadays.

This is becoming depressingly common, organisations/councils/individuals who either know the cost of everything and the value of nothing, or have their own agendas.

Always been put off going to Cornwall due to the crowds and higher costs than elsewhere.
CAHC was the one reason that made us consider a holiday there, but if they are being shut down then we’ll spend our money elsewhere in the country, so it won’t be just one Cornwall attraction that misses out, it will be a number.
Well done Cornwall councillors, hope you are happy!

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Archer
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Re: Cornwall aviation heritage centre

Post by Archer »

Statement from the directors and management:
** CORNWALL AVIATION HERITAGE CENTRE TO CLOSE FROM 31ST OCTOBER 2022 **

It is with heavy hearts and dismay that we can confirm that we are set to close permanently following Cornwall Council's decision to no longer support our museum and therefore evict us from our site without viable alternatives being offered.

The Cornwall Aviation Heritage Centre is a unique, highly successful, interactive aerospace visitor centre and education hub based at Cornwall Airport, near to the new Spaceport Cornwall.

CAHC was created by local people, is privately funded, pays commercial rents to Cornwall Council and is becoming nationally recognised as an aerospace site of excellence, yet Cornwall Council have failed to recognise the cultural & heritage value of our museum.

The Cornwall Aviation Heritage Centre (‘CAHC’) is a unique, popular, growing, tourism, heritage and education centre.
Situated at Cornwall Airport near to the new Spaceport project, it is locally owned and operates with no support from Cornwall Council who, as owners of Cornwall Airport, are its landlords.
For 7 years CAHC’s owners, staff and volunteers have worked night and day to create something truly unique and very special for Cornwall. The result is an award-winning, top-rated visitor destination and major aerospace/STEM education centre with industry and education collaborations within and outside Cornwall.
Cornwall Council have terminated CAHC’s lease and given a deadline to vacate the site by 31/3/23.
With 20+ airframes of all sizes and thousands of exhibits, suitable alternative locations are few and need to be at or adjacent to Cornwall Airport and costs of relocation would cost hundreds of thousands.
Cornwall Council committed to assist CAHC to relocate their operation but have since refused to make good on these commitments. For more than 10 months the Council have refused to even discuss relocation proposals and funding sources.
With no options for relocation and with Cornwall Council refusing to help, the Cornwall Aviation Heritage Centre, the only aerospace museum in Cornwall, Devon and Dorset will have to close forever.
All of this amazing amenity and opportunity will be lost. Jobs will be destroyed. Valuable and historic aircraft of all sizes will have to be scrapped because of the prohibitive cost of road transport. The opportunity to inspire and educate Cornwall’s future generations will be lost. 60 dedicated veteran and retired volunteers will lose a vital part of their lives.
Cornwall Council should be welcoming this unparalleled opportunity for Cornwall and, as a crucial part of the Levelling Up agenda, the Council should be encouraging and nurturing the Cornwall Aviation Heritage Centre in its bid to provide the County with a National quality aerospace destination and centre for learning – at no cost to the County. Instead Cornwall Council is destroying it.

Thank you for taking the time to read this news. We are all devastated, but we will still work to find a solution or, if not successful, to find ways to preserve the aircraft and exhibits.

The Directors and Management of CAHC

PETITION HERE: https://www.change.org/p/save-cornwall- ... age-centre

106500
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Re: Cornwall aviation heritage centre

Post by 106500 »

You’d think that as a Conservative dominated council, they would be sensitive to museums such as this which celebrate our history and heritage. Unfortunately it seems this cash strapped organisation has other priorities… for example living down in North Cornwall, each month we receive a totally useless e-mail which lectures council tax payers on Covid behaviour, etc. I wonder how much that costs to produce? All of Cornwalls MPs are Conservative so it may be worth dropping a line to one of them. I will.

106500
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Re: Cornwall aviation heritage centre

Post by 106500 »

My letter and reply.


Sent: 1 September 2022 09:59
To: scott@scottmann.org.uk
Subject: Closure of Cornwall Aviation Heritage Centre

Dear Mr Mann,

I thought I would send you a short letter to express my concern at the decision by Cornwall Council to give notice of eviction to Cornwall Aviation Heritage Centre near to Newquay Airport.

As a Conservative dominated council I would have thought they would be sympathetic to organisations such at this who celebrate our history and heritage. Alas this seems not to be the case.

I hope you can raise this matter with the council either directly or via your colleague in the constituency local to Newquay.

My address is:

***********

I have appended a statement from the museum explaining the position.

Yours sincerely

***********


Re: Closure of Cornwall Aviation Heritage Centre (Case Ref: ZA53479)

Good morning,

I hope you are well.

Our office has only just been made aware of the news, and we are following it as we speak.

This is within Mr Double’s constituency so I suspect he will take the lead on it. We will know more then.

Kind regards,

Michael Kenneth Muldowney
Senior Communications Officer
Office of Scott Mann MP (North Cornwall)
Government Whip for Home Office & Ministry of Justice


FGR2
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Re: Cornwall aviation heritage centre

Post by FGR2 »

I emailed BBC Cornwall last night, they replied this morning saying they had already been in touch with them.

I emailed leader of the Council, and Economy/airport bloke Cllr Louis Gardner, cc’ing the Deputy this morning. Had confirmation a while ago that it has been passed on to Glen Caplin-Grey who is an economic and Skills person as it is under his remit.

GeeRam
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Re: Cornwall aviation heritage centre

Post by GeeRam »

The thing is that in their 144 page waffle filled PDF about the airport development, its stated that the HAS area (where the museum is) is of historic importance, and there are already business there, and they hope that future business will reflect the historic nature of that area with regards to the site.
Err............so surely a bloody museum fits that criteria perfectly?

So, clearly given that public document from the council, and the statement from the museum, which are at odds, there are clearly behind the doors factors going on here.

I know some locals have already written to their MP's about it.

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Archer
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Re: Cornwall aviation heritage centre

Post by Archer »

A bit more about this in another news item here: https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornw ... ge-7534654

The council explains that they have already extended the lease and that it was clear from the start in 2015 that it was a lease that would expire in 2021. Also, they state that they are not responsible for the operation of private businesses. That's pretty short-sighted if you ask me. I would hope that they can spot the difference between a business with the purpose of making a huge profit and a museum with an education/conservation/commemoration purpose that supports tourism.

Edit: To me it looks like the council just wants to get a maximum profit from the site, at the cost of everything else. I haven't seen the PDF but I think I can predict what's in there.

FGR2
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Re: Cornwall aviation heritage centre

Post by FGR2 »

I suspected that it is down to them wanting as much commercial rent as possible.

This was the email I sent to the Cllr Linda Taylor, Cllr Louis Gardner and Cllr David Harris yesterday morning.



Cornwall Aviation Heritage Centre Closure.


Dear Councillor Taylor/Councillor Gardner

I must write to express my disappointment at the news of the council serving notice of the Cornwall Aviation Museum from Newquay airport. I have visited the museum many a time in recent years and the professionalism of the volunteers, their knowledge, dedication, their stories and quality of the collection of aircraft and associated artefacts are a credit to all involved. They really are up with the best museums I have been to, even large museums such as Duxford, Hendon, Yeovilton and Yorkshire Air Musuem. The ability to get inside the aircraft is pretty much unheard of for any other museum in the UK. In the Cornwall Aviation Musuem you have a very unique hands on, interactive attraction.

This is not only of interest for people like me in my 40’s, but more importantly for inspiring the next generation of engineers, and aviators whilst at the same time remembering those who were stationed in Cornwall (like my Grandfather who served at RAF St Eval in World War Two).

It would therefore be nothing short of destruction of our heritage to close this museum, to prevent ex-military personnel from passing on their stories, to deny the inspiration for the next generation, to allow rare aircraft to be reduced to scrap, and for artefacts donated or bequeathed to the Museum, (as a gift to the people of Cornwall and those who visit), to be spread far and wide.

What monetary value do you as a council put on inspiration, education and history?

I would urge you not to look at the cost, or whether other businesses would pay higher rent, but to look in the context of the value that this Museum adds in education, inspiration and bringing the important history of aviation in Cornwall and its people to life.

With all that in mind I would urge you to engage with the Museum to secure its future, and to prevent a truly unique attraction which you have the privilege of being based in your county, from being lost for ever.


Kind regards


I received notification that this has been forwarded on to Glenn Caplin-Grey, Service Directory Economy and Skills, as I understand have many other emails from other people.

The online petition is approaching 10,000 signatures.

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