The Angry Thread...

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cg_341
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Post by cg_341 »

Maybe his friend also invented a time machine whilst on benefits, allowing them to travel two weeks in to the future to collect a car that can't be registered before 1 March 2019!?

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Brevet Cable
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Post by Brevet Cable »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47229181

One of three schoolgirls who left east London in 2015 to join the Islamic State group says she has no regrets, but wants to return to the UK.


I really hope HMG aren't stupid enough to let this piece of scum back, but I fear that they will.
As far as I'm concerned they should hand her over to the Syrian Government & let them deal with her.
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https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/ ... 10-minutes

Leading BBC journalists are in revolt at the decision to cut the length of the News at Ten bulletin by 10 minutes and give the time over to youth programming.
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Former Metropolitan Police Chief Dal Babu -- what an utter tool!
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Brevet Cable
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Re: The Angry Thread...

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Blame the Judge.
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Post by effects »

Brevet Cable wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47229181

One of three schoolgirls who left east London in 2015 to join the Islamic State group says she has no regrets, but wants to return to the UK.


I really hope HMG aren't stupid enough to let this piece of scum back, but I fear that they will.
As far as I'm concerned they should hand her over to the Syrian Government & let them deal with her.

Should have done with Isis what Sri Lanka did with the Tamil Tigers.
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Post by Brevet Cable »

Russia & the Syrian Government tried, and the various Kurdish militia would like to ( but are stopped from doing so by us & the Americans )
The worst thing is that there are loads of apologists crawling out of the woodwork making various excuses for her & trying to garner sympathy for her.
As 'Rule 303' ( or 'Rule 762' for the modern times ) is unlikely to be invoked,it seems to be ignored that her ISIL husband happens to be a Dutch national..... so no problem, they can have her if they want her.
If not, let her rot.
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AlexC
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Post by AlexC »

Brevet Cable wrote:I really hope HMG aren't stupid enough to let this piece of scum back, but I fear that they will.


It's being said that as she is a British citizen she has to be allowed back.
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CJS
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Post by CJS »

Tricky isn't it. Not morally perhaps, but legally. Can she be refused entry back in to her own country? I'm not defending her, just wondering if she can be stopped.

I mean presumably she can be arrested and locked up if she did come back?
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cg_341
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Post by cg_341 »

Didn't HMG threaten to cancel the passports of anyone who went to join ISIS?

No passport, no entry. Simple, surely?

EGLL
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Post by EGLL »

This country is a joke. Send the scumbag to it's parent's country of origin.

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starbuck
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Post by starbuck »

EGLL wrote:This country is a joke. Send the scumbag to it's parent's country of origin.


Eh? :wall:

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Tommy
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Post by Tommy »

I'm in two minds about the issue. I have zero sympathy for her, but I do have sympathy for her child, though. Kids shouldn't pay for the sins of their parents.

I feel like she should come back here and face justice (she hasn't faced any/much justice over there).The UK has taken back circa, what, 500 ISIS male fighters? Why not her?

It also seems inconsistent to me for people to say "we don't want her", because those same people are always the ones arguing for the deportation of foreign terrorists etc. how desperate were we to extradite Abu Hamza, or Abu Qatada? I don't think it's fair for us to say "they aren't British and they're terrorists, send them back home" and then turn around and say "yes she is British, but we still don't want her here".

No government should be able to arbitrarily make its people citizenless. However a bad person she is, she's still one of ours. She should face British justice. It's not for us to turn around and say "not our problem". We are better than that.

I haven't bothered to research it or anything, but I think lawfully we have to have her back anyway if she's a citizen?

EGLL wrote:This country is a joke. Send the scumbag to it's parent's country of origin.


Which country is that?

MiG_Eater
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Post by MiG_Eater »

Totally agree with Tommy.

It seems pretty obvious that as a British citizen she has a right to come here, and a country should not be able to arbitrarily remove someone's citizenship.

If she's committed a crime (which it seems quite clear she has) she should face justice here.

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Post by iainpeden »

Rights,rights,rights.

There are three interconnected “Rs”. Rights, responsibility and rules - to get the first you need to show the second by following the third.

And to say that as a child she was unable to make an informed decision shows a total lack of understanding of not only 15 year olds but most children beyond the age of 7 - who have a clear understanding of right and wrong.
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Post by borismorris »

The child has been born in Syria, to a British mother and a Dutch (Isis soldier) father- can someone clarify why we should feel any moral obligation to take in the child?

yes, I know it’s not the fault of the kid, but I fail to feel empathy towards him or the mother who has failed to show any remorse or contrition. If Isis were still holding their out there would she still want to come “home”?

Sorry - but I don’t buy the morally/ ethically argument- bridges burned - made your bed, now lie in it.

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Post by CJS »

iainpeden wrote:Rights,rights,rights.

There are three interconnected “Rs”. Rights, responsibility and rules - to get the first you need to show the second by following the third.

And to say that as a child she was unable to make an informed decision shows a total lack of understanding of not only 15 year olds but most children beyond the age of 7 - who have a clear understanding of right and wrong.


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AlexC
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Post by AlexC »

Exactly which crime has she committed in this country, in other words a crime that she could be charged with here?
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Post by Brevet Cable »

Start off with supporting a proscribed organisation.
Depending on what else they know about her, it could involve the Terrorism Act, the Anti-Terrorism Crime and Security Act, the Geneva Conventions Act & the International Criminal Court Act.
She doesn't have to have committed the crimes in this Country, as they'd fall under Universal Jurisdiction.
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Post by CJS »

She will be stripped of her British nationality, due to being eligible for citizenship of somewhere else too, according to the BBC.

"Under the 1981 British Nationality Act, a person can be deprived of their citizenship if the home secretary is satisfied it would be "conducive to the public good" and they would not become stateless as a result."

Apparently, "In an interview with the BBC on Monday, Ms Begum said she never sought to be an IS "poster girl" following her journey to Syria with two school friends from Bethnal Green, and wished to raise her son in the UK."

No, she just sought to kill many innocent people to further an ideology far far removed from the religion she will no doubt use to justify her actions, as those in IS so wrongly do/have done.

Pathetic.

I feel for her child, I really do, but please let any appeal be unsuccessful, so that it might send a message that this kind of extremism needs snuffing out.
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Tommy
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Post by Tommy »

It’s amazing how we as a nation are so scared of her.

Yesterday’s news was pretty sad. She is one of our own whether we like it or not. If she wanted to come back she could, and expect to be punished accordingly. Be wary of a foreign government who has the power to arbitrarily strip citizenship at a whim. Where does it stop? What about those stupid twenty-something year olds who get caught smuggling drugs in support of South American cartels? Do we strip them of their citizenship, too? Or the man caught with bottles of wine in his car in Saudi Arabia? How many murderers have we sought to bring back to the U.K. to face justice?

I thought we were better, stronger, and less afraid than that.

And also, imagine the absolute furore there would have been/would be if those foreign hate preachers we want off our streets were made stateless (ie “we don’t want them”) by their home countries?

And, above all else, the reason she wanted to come back was for her baby to be looked after, as all of her previous children have died. Have we as a nation really just condemned an innocent British child to extreme suffering, or even likely death? Because we are so insecure about ourselves?

A righteous and robust nation like Britain used to be would take back one of our own and punish them accordingly. Sweeping the problem under the rug and leaving it for another nation to deal with is both cowardly, and a great propaganda tool for ISIS.

And further, she’s not exactly behind bars over there - you guys are all ok with her walking free rather than in prison?

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Post by starbuck »

I get where you are coming from Tommy but I think the examples you give of removing citizenship for illegal wine and drug smuggling are a bit of a stretch too far for me. Those are examples of crimes committed by British nationals in a foreign country. At no point have those individuals turned their back on the UK and thrown their lot in with a crowd who are wanting to wipe us off the face of the earth.

I have sympathy for the child of course bit then that is diminished everytime its stupid mother opens her mouth and shows absolutely no remorse or contrition. If ISIS were winning we would never have heard from her ever again.

Legally she has to be allowed to come home but personally I think that HMG will sit on their hands with this one and let it become tomorrows chip papers. As far as i am aware we still don't have any diplomatic presence in Syria so there is no-one over there to facilitate her return anyway.

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Post by iainpeden »

My daughter had tickets for the Ariane Grande concert in Birmingham, couldn't make it but agreed to swap tickets with a friend for the Manchester show. In the end neither went (thank God). I didn't hear about the bomb until driving to work that morning but will never get out of my head the thought that my daughter could have been there.

If this terrorist is brought back she should be flung into the nearest oubliette and left to rot in her own fillth.
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Brevet Cable
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Post by Brevet Cable »

Tommy;

Drug mules? Let the courts over there deal with them & let them serve their prison term in one of their jails...and if the crime carries the death penalty, so be it.
Booze smuggling in the MENA? Ditto. ( Unless you've really annoyed the local politicos they tend to turn a blind eye to ex-pats drinking habits )
What HMG shouldn't do is to fight to allow them to serve their punishment over here or stop them being subject to any corporal/capital punishment the sentence requires ( unless there's a suspicion of a miscarriage of justice )

The murderers tend to be a different matter - the reason we want to extradite them is usually because the murders have been committed here & the suspects then fled abroad to escape trial.
If it's a case where a British national commits a murder whilst overseas, refer to my previous answers.

In my opinion, Begum ( and any others ) should be investigated & dealt with in the Country they may have committed crimes in...as appears to be currently the case with her Dutch-born husband.

From what I recall, we've already allowed 400 or so 'former ISIL supporters' back in...all of those are supposed to have shown contrition for their actions, which is something Begum hasn't done ( quite the opposite, in fact )
Some of those were obviously lying as they've since gone on to commit further terrorist-related crimes in this Country.
HMG have also apparently already revoked UK citizenship from over 100 people who went to join ISIL.

Begum won't be stateless - she has dual British-Bangladeshi citizenship because her parents are from Bangladesh.
She claims to have 2 children who died - there's no proof of whether this is true or not.
There's also no proof either way that she's as innocent of any wrongdoing as she claims.

The child is a different matter.

She's in a refugee camp in Syria in an area controlled by the YPG....she's effectively in a prison now, more so when the word gets around who she is ( if it hasn't already )
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