The Angry Thread...

Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby CJS on Tue 05 Mar 2019, 9:57 am

Whatever you teach has to be age appropriate though, including this.

You can teach children to be welcoming and to recognise that we're all different, and that includes who we love and have relationships with, from a very early age as long as you do it sensitively and in a way they'll understand.

I'm with Tommy on this, it's bloody ridiculous that the school can't teach it. What next, a petition that the maths is too hard, the topic is too boring, the spellings are too easy...

Perhaps teachers should be allowed to petition parents to stop then sending their kids to bed too late, giving then crap for lunch, not teaching them how to tie their shoelaces.

I honestly don't know what other professions allow their 'stakeholders' (*shudders*) to wield so much influence.

Let us teach, we do know what we're doing you know.
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby pbeardmore on Tue 05 Mar 2019, 11:50 am

Gay people exist (can we all agree on that?) it's not opinion like politics or religion. It makes perfect sense to at least acknowledge with kids that there is a gay community within the UK (and wider). Religion kicks in, as normal, as it takes a moral stance on a factual situation.

The state is there to teach kids about factual situations and to acknowledge that there are those who have different moral frameworks. So, from an adult perspective "Gay people exist, there is an LGBT community within the UK and some religions think that this is sinful/wrong." How you then translate that for 10 years olds is a fair question.

But IMHO the state should not be bullied by ANY parents to exclude basic facts (Evolution?) when those fact's don't fit in with the parent's moral or political agendas.

Re Muslim attitudes, many don't want to discuss this as it does not fit in with a liberal, multi ethinic ideal but it should be discussed. The liberal media have a big challenge here as they don't know how to handle it. The freedon to think that being gay is a criminal act versus the freedom to be gay and not locked up.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... sharia-law

to provide some balance, it's not just Muslims who want to remove facts from schools.....

https://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2018 ... bbi-claims
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 05 Mar 2019, 12:38 pm

God says that homosexuality is wrong & he did a lot of smiting of those who followed that lifestyle -- it says so in the Bible, the Qu'ran & the Talmud.
Therefore, any God-botherer who professes to be a true believer should be opposed to it or they're not really true believers....and any religious leader ( including the Pope ) who says differently is opposing the word of God & should be deposed.
After all, they can't have it both ways - either they obey the word of God, which is supposed to be inviolate ( it says so plenty of times in the Bible, for instance ) or they declare themselves apostate.
HMG must believe that religion is correct, given that RI is still compulsory in schools.
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby ericbee123 on Tue 05 Mar 2019, 1:03 pm

I swear I live on a different planet.

I went to a Catholic Infants, Junior and High School in the 1970s and a Catholic Sixth Form in the 80s ( has to wear school uniform until 19 years old ).

I am pretty sure that I’ve never been told that Homosexuality is a sin in all that time.

We were taught to love thy neighbour and do unto others what you would like done unto yourself - that didn’t seem to bad an ethos.

I was taught about Evolution and Dinosaurs.

I mostly remember RE lessons being about consolidating the Bible with the subjects we were being taught. So trying to explain why Evolution happened and how that relates to God creating everything. RE was confusing. 1970s Catholicism was playing catch up.

It wasn’t Fire And Brimstone.

As an adult I became an Atheist by choice.

I still have Christian friends, who sometimes like to take the moral high ground until I remind them that “Th-ou Shall Not Commit Adultery” is one of their commandments :)

I don’t think you need to be a “swivel-eyed looney” to be a fairly good Christian, Muslim, Hindu or Jew. It’s only the “devout “ ones who feel the need to cross the looney line !
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby CJS on Tue 05 Mar 2019, 1:18 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:God says that homosexuality is wrong & he did a lot of smiting of those who followed that lifestyle -- it says so in the Bible, the Qu'ran & the Talmud.
Therefore, any God-botherer who professes to be a true believer should be opposed to it or they're not really true believers....and any religious leader ( including the Pope ) who says differently is opposing the word of God & should be deposed.
After all, they can't have it both ways - either they obey the word of God, which is supposed to be inviolate ( it says so plenty of times in the Bible, for instance ) or they declare themselves apostate.
HMG must believe that religion is correct, given that RI is still compulsory in schools.


Although it remains the only subject parents can remove their children from, at least in primary school.

Edit-unless the rules have changed, it's also the only subject teachers can opt out of teaching.
Last edited by CJS on Tue 05 Mar 2019, 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby AlexC on Tue 05 Mar 2019, 6:23 pm

CJS wrote:I honestly don't know what other professions allow their 'stakeholders' (*shudders*) to wield so much influence.


I also hate the expression 'stakeholder', in the context that's it's being used now that is.
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby vandal on Tue 05 Mar 2019, 8:07 pm

PM Theresa May saying there is no link between falling Police Numbers and Violent / Knife Crime. :question:


https://news.sky.com/story/police-feder ... s-11656079
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby CJS on Tue 05 Mar 2019, 10:24 pm

Theresa May saying anything.
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby iainpeden on Thu 07 Mar 2019, 8:12 pm

The parents of the boys allegedly abused by Michael Jackson who put their sons into potential danger for greed.
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby f4phixeruk on Thu 07 Mar 2019, 9:07 pm

vandal wrote:PM Theresa May saying there is no link between falling Police Numbers and Violent / Knife Crime. :question:


https://news.sky.com/story/police-feder ... s-11656079


That'll be the same Theresa May surrounded by 'millions' of police officers. Take all her officers away, and she might have a different take on things.
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby Spiny Norman on Fri 08 Mar 2019, 11:51 am

It's a bit like people who move out of the city to the country and complain about the church bells, thus silencing the church bells.

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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby Tommy on Sat 09 Mar 2019, 7:26 am

Tommy wrote:
Have we as a nation really just condemned an innocent British child to extreme suffering, or even likely death? Because we are so insecure about ourselves?


Turns out that, yes, that’s very much the case. We were so weak and insecure about ourselves that we let an innocent British baby die.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47506145
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby PeteM on Sat 09 Mar 2019, 7:46 am

vandal wrote:PM Theresa May saying there is no link between falling Police Numbers and Violent / Knife Crime. :question:


https://news.sky.com/story/police-feder ... s-11656079


A predictable statement from the same Mrs May that has almost single handedly destroyed the fabric and morale in the British Police Service.
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby iainpeden on Sat 09 Mar 2019, 9:21 am

Tommy wrote:
Tommy wrote:
Have we as a nation really just condemned an innocent British child to extreme suffering, or even likely death? Because we are so insecure about ourselves?


Turns out that, yes, that’s very much the case. We were so weak and insecure about ourselves that we let an innocent British baby die.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47506145


Who also had Dutch citizenship.

Far too simple to concentrate on a single tragedy when millions of innocent children, women and men have died, been badly wounded or displaced in the horror of Syria.
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby Brevet Cable on Sat 09 Mar 2019, 1:47 pm

And for the most part, "weak and insecure" isn't the reason.
And the child wasn't British.
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby MiG_Eater on Sat 09 Mar 2019, 3:00 pm

Any child dying is always an absolute tragedy - but this news really got to me.

It is very difficult for me to understand any good reason why he and his mother weren't brought back to the UK immediately she made her intentions known.

Apart from losing potentially valuable intelligence and ensuring justice is done with regard to Miss Begum's alleged crimes, an innocent child would have been saved from a life of potential radicalisation.

If she and her husband hated 'the west' before, you can bet they hate it a lot more now.

What a horrible situation.
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby iainpeden on Sat 09 Mar 2019, 3:16 pm

MiG_Eater wrote:
It is very difficult for me to understand any good reason why he and his mother weren't brought back to the UK immediately she made her intentions known.
.


The youngsters blown to pieces in Manchester might be a clue.
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby MiG_Eater on Sat 09 Mar 2019, 3:41 pm

All the more reason to try her in a British court for crimes she may have committed.
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby iainpeden on Sat 09 Mar 2019, 4:15 pm

I think she lost her right to the protection of British justice when she tricked her way out of the country to support a regime intent on destroying the British way of life.

A regime which would deny us the right to vocalise our different views in public.
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby Brevet Cable on Sat 09 Mar 2019, 5:05 pm

Image

That's why any sane person wouldn't want her in their Country.
There are videos of these murders & many others, which she not only admits to having watched but happily stated that they played a part in her deciding to travel to join ISIL.
Do any of you really believe that in the 4 years she was an ISIL camp-follower that she never witnessed any of the murders they carried out in areas they controlled?
Moreover, she still doesn't think she did anything wrong.
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby Tommy on Sat 09 Mar 2019, 9:36 pm

Not one single post defending the action to strip her citizenship comes anywhere near close to being justification for letting a new-born innocent British child die.

You might have argued that we should have taken the child and not the mother, but none of you did.

Yes, ISIS are terrible. No, I don’t think she deserves protection or a soft touch.

But allowing her child to die because we were too scared of her is disgusting. We are supposed to be better than that.

It’s a cowardly act by the British government. It’s a British child. The article states:

As her child was born before she was deprived of UK citizenship by the Home Office, the baby would still be considered British.


That child’s death is on our government.

How are we better than ISIS if our cowardice let an innocent child die?

We are supposed to be better than that. We take responsibility for our own. Be that punishment (for the mother) or care (for the child).
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby iainpeden on Sat 09 Mar 2019, 9:49 pm

So, essentialy, you are suggesting that GB sends at short notice a substantial military mission, endangering a significant number of British lives (military and civilian), into a war zone where everybody will be shooting at it to rescue a non-British child whose parents want to get you on your knees and take your head off with a carving knife.

And you reckon those of us who voted for Brexit are mad - seriously!
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby Tommy on Sat 09 Mar 2019, 10:39 pm

...what?
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby Brevet Cable on Sat 09 Mar 2019, 11:45 pm

The child wasn't a British subject.
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Re: The Angry Thread...

Postby Tommy on Sun 10 Mar 2019, 12:14 am

Aiight, second review. Still a baffling escalation.

I’ll deconstruct a little bit:

iainpeden wrote:So, essentialy,


I said nothing of the sort, essence or otherwise. You’re using absolution to discredit what I’m saying. It’s an easy trick because it removes the concept of nuance. Here, I’ll flip it around onto you:

Essentially, what you are saying is that you’re happy for that baby to have died.

Did you say that? No. Did you even imply that? Nope. Is it helpful? Not at all. But it’s easy and it means I don’t have to think too hard about what you said and it feels like a zinger of a rebuttal.

Don’t talk in absolutes. And especially don’t show disrespect to other people who’s Opinions differ to yours by painting their opinions as absolutes.

iainpeden wrote:you are suggesting that GB sends at short notice a substantial military mission, endangering a significant number of British lives (military and civilian), into a war zone where everybody will be shooting at it to rescue a non-British child whose parents want to get you on your knees and take your head off with a carving knife.


Am I? When last I checked I wasn’t nuanced in the particularities of international diplomacy, so I have no idea whether a military mission would be needed or not, nor of its size.

“Endangering a significant number of British lives (military...” well, macabre as it is to say, isn’t that what a military is for? Dangerous work to protect its citizens? Totally fine to do it for oil in Iraq, but a British baby who’s life is in danger? Pffft.

I thought she was in a Kurdish-controlled refugee camp? British journalists seem to be getting in and out of there with interviews from the child’s mother with little difficulty given the situation. And for god’s sake, the child is, sorry, was, British. It was born before U.K. citizenship was stripped from the mother. Stop saying it wasn’t a British citizen. According to the BBC, it was.

iainpeden wrote:And you reckon those of us who voted for Brexit are mad - seriously!


I don’t know what Brexit has to do with it, but you raised it, not me.

I don’t seriously think people who voted for Brexit are mad. Two points; I never used the word “mad”. I used the word “idiots”. “Mad” implies some mental impairment that would affect judgement that is a) not my place to say and b) is too easy an excuse for people of sound mind doing something idiotic. Second point is that, for the god-knows how many times, I DON’T think Brexit voters are idiots. I think that anyone who *still* thinks Brexit is a good thing is an idiot. There’s a world of difference. If you were a Brexit voter and you still think Brexit is a good thing right now, then on the issue of Brexit (and Brexit alone, as I’m sure you’re quite the non-idiot on other topics) I am unable to conclude that you are not an idiot, despite my best efforts to reach a different analysis.

Look, chaps, I get that opinions are charged on this one. I really do. And I respect that. Don’t mistake my opinions for some liberal leftie loony hipster antagonism. I think Begum is an absolute c u next Tuesday. I was much happier having forgotten she existed. But I just can’t logic myself away from the position that not taking her back and getting her to face proper justice, and looking after that new born British baby was the wrong thing to do.
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