Presidential Election 2020

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Spiny Norman
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Re: Presidential Election 2020

Post by Spiny Norman »

ZRX61 wrote:
Mon 13 Sep 2021, 4:54 pm
Spiny Norman wrote:
Tue 16 Feb 2021, 6:03 pm
Are we talking about doctored videos?

Twitter flags President Trump’s tweet of doctored ‘racist baby’ video
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/st ... baby-video

But back to the matter in hand. If Trump wasn't responsible for the insurrectionary attack on Congress - why didn't he call them back? I watched it live. He was silent. Until much too late.

Mitch McConnell called Trump "practically and morally responsible".

Case closed, I think.
FBI investigation cleared Trump of any involvement/incitement & said it wasn't *organized* by any specific group.
Wonder if the lawsuit by police officers will "clear" Trump of involvement?

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ZRX61
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Re: Presidential Election 2020

Post by ZRX61 »

Bit of overlap with another thread here:
Biden at the 9/11 deal. Walking around with his mask on... walks up to a crowd of people & takes his mask off, then shakes hands with people using the same hand, kisses his own hand & then puts the mask back on with the same hand.
Not sure Biden got the mask memo. Really funny part was people in the crowd quite close to him telling him not to sniff the kids .. as he bent down to get closer to the kids :)
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Paulish
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Re: Presidential Election 2020

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ZRX61 wrote:
Mon 13 Sep 2021, 10:51 pm
Bit of overlap with another thread here:
Biden at the 9/11 deal. Walking around with his mask on... walks up to a crowd of people & takes his mask off, then shakes hands with people using the same hand, kisses his own hand & then puts the mask back on with the same hand.
Not sure Biden got the mask memo. Really funny part was people in the crowd quite close to him telling him not to sniff the kids .. as he bent down to get closer to the kids :)
The kid sniffing stuff again. Is that all you have got….really? There is another contributor on here that likes going on about that. The best part of the Biden presidency is that he is not Trump.

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Tommy
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Re: Presidential Election 2020

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Paulish wrote:
Tue 14 Sep 2021, 7:53 am
The best part of the Biden presidency is that he is not Trump.
That’s a pretty low bar, can’t lie.

I know what you mean, but one of the descents into political madness is that not enough is demanded of politicians from their electorates beyond “not being the previous person”.

I’d hope that the best part of Biden’s presidency is more than his simple “not Trump”.

It’s only been eight months or so, and I bow to any actual US citizens, but it appears to me that successes like the COVID relief package, and the exceptional vaccine rollout are things that he has accomplished on his own merit.

I think, though I would disagree, that the Afghanistan pull out will be remembered better than it was experienced, too. Republicans will be remembered as the party that got the US into Iraq (needlessly) and Afghanistan, and the Democrats were the ones who pulled out of both, and got Osama Bin Laden. I think that’s an unfair conclusion, but I think that’s how it’ll roll in six months to a year.

One of the failures is that the Republicans engaged in terrorism against the US, and everyone seems to have just blinked and moved on. Trump ought to be in jail (for a lot of things, but especially the insurrection).

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Re: Presidential Election 2020

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ZRX61 wrote:
Mon 13 Sep 2021, 10:51 pm
Bit of overlap with another thread here:
Biden at the 9/11 deal. Walking around with his mask on... walks up to a crowd of people & takes his mask off, then shakes hands with people using the same hand, kisses his own hand & then puts the mask back on with the same hand.
Not sure Biden got the mask memo. Really funny part was people in the crowd quite close to him telling him not to sniff the kids .. as he bent down to get closer to the kids :)
So you criticize Biden for his mask wearing habits and yet you brag about flouting the same rules yourself. Hypocritical much?

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pbeardmore
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Re: Presidential Election 2020

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Ive made this point before but the legacy of Trump seems to be that he is used as a bench mark re good or bad. Ironically, he and his ego would love this as it shows how great his political influence was. We need to "get over" him and focus on some decent leadership from any part of the spectrum. Little sign of this at the moment OMHO
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Paulish
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Re: Presidential Election 2020

Post by Paulish »

pbeardmore wrote:
Tue 14 Sep 2021, 12:19 pm
Ive made this point before but the legacy of Trump seems to be that he is used as a bench mark re good or bad. Ironically, he and his ego would love this as it shows how great his political influence was. We need to "get over" him and focus on some decent leadership from any part of the spectrum. Little sign of this at the moment OMHO
Decent leadership includes not vilifying your political opponents as if they were the mortal enemy and rather treating them as fellow Americans. In this regard the current incumbent scores highly in comparison to his unmentionable predecessor. Had said former President been more inclusive in his approach he would have been far more successful at the last election.

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Tommy
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Re: Presidential Election 2020

Post by Tommy »

pbeardmore wrote:
Tue 14 Sep 2021, 12:19 pm
Ive made this point before but the legacy of Trump seems to be that he is used as a bench mark re good or bad. Ironically, he and his ego would love this as it shows how great his political influence was. We need to "get over" him and focus on some decent leadership from any part of the spectrum.
Agreed.

Trump is gone, like a fart in the wind. He is an irrelevance now (until he once again paralyses the Republican Party by running in 2024), and one needs to concentrate on Biden on a standalone basis.

Yes, it’s nice to have “not Trump” in the WH, but that’s just a poor indictment on Trump, rather than anything positive for Biden.

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speedbird2639
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Re: Presidential Election 2020

Post by speedbird2639 »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58441173

This might give some perspective about how some American voters see the situation.

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Paulish
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Re: Presidential Election 2020

Post by Paulish »

Tommy wrote:
Tue 14 Sep 2021, 2:27 pm
pbeardmore wrote:
Tue 14 Sep 2021, 12:19 pm
Ive made this point before but the legacy of Trump seems to be that he is used as a bench mark re good or bad. Ironically, he and his ego would love this as it shows how great his political influence was. We need to "get over" him and focus on some decent leadership from any part of the spectrum.
Agreed.

Trump is gone, like a fart in the wind. He is an irrelevance now (until he once again paralyses the Republican Party by running in 2024)
I am not sure you’re right about him being gone. For the first time in US history they appear to have a shadow presidency. He continues to sow discord via “the big lie”. In practical terms this includes building support for phoney partisan election audits in Arizona and elsewhere. This is literally continuing to have a destabilising effect on American democracy, with great (and baseless) distrust amongst many already in the results of the 2020 election and the process itself.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/09/politic ... index.html

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Re: Presidential Election 2020

Post by boff180 »

This report is nothing short of scary.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/ ... clear-war-
Before and after the assault on the US Capitol on 6 January, the most senior US general took steps to prevent Donald Trump from “going rogue” and launching a nuclear war or an attack on China, according to excerpts of an eagerly awaited new book by the Washington Post reporter Bob Woodward.
Milley reportedly thought the president had become “all but manic, screaming at officials and constructing his own alternate reality about endless election conspiracies”.

According to the authors, Milley worried that Trump could “go rogue” and told senior staff: “You never know what a president’s trigger point is.”

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Re: Presidential Election 2020

Post by FarnboroJohn »

boff180 wrote:
Wed 15 Sep 2021, 7:58 pm
This report is nothing short of scary.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/ ... clear-war-
Before and after the assault on the US Capitol on 6 January, the most senior US general took steps to prevent Donald Trump from “going rogue” and launching a nuclear war or an attack on China, according to excerpts of an eagerly awaited new book by the Washington Post reporter Bob Woodward.
Milley reportedly thought the president had become “all but manic, screaming at officials and constructing his own alternate reality about endless election conspiracies”.

According to the authors, Milley worried that Trump could “go rogue” and told senior staff: “You never know what a president’s trigger point is.”
Actually it isn't scary: more like evidence that the US system is robustly practical and fails to safe.

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Re: Presidential Election 2020

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DerekF wrote:
Tue 14 Sep 2021, 8:09 am
So you criticize Biden for his mask wearing habits and yet you brag about flouting the same rules yourself. Hypocritical much?
Comprehension issue? There are a slew of exemptions to wearing a mask, at least a dozen, maybe 15 or so. FOUR of them apply to me. Senility is NOT an exemption to mask wearing (yet). I didn't realize having medical issues falls under "flouting".
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Re: Presidential Election 2020

Post by ZRX61 »

boff180 wrote:
Wed 15 Sep 2021, 7:58 pm
This report is nothing short of scary.
What's scary is that Milley took matters into his own hands, told the Chinese he would warn of an attack & still has a job under Biden.
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ZRX61
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Re: Presidential Election 2020

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Paulish wrote:
Wed 15 Sep 2021, 5:10 pm
I am not sure you’re right about him being gone. For the first time in US history they appear to have a shadow presidency. He continues to sow discord via “the big lie”. In practical terms this includes building support for phoney partisan election audits in Arizona and elsewhere. This is literally continuing to have a destabilising effect on American democracy, with great (and baseless) distrust amongst many already in the results of the 2020 election and the process itself.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/09/politic ... index.html
Apparently Trump is much bigger news item in the UK than he is here, can't think of the last time I saw him on TV, it's been weeks... but then again you're basing things on CNN, their ratings are completely in the toilet & they have to keep the narrative going.
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DerekF
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Re: Presidential Election 2020

Post by DerekF »

ZRX61 wrote:
Wed 15 Sep 2021, 8:50 pm
DerekF wrote:
Tue 14 Sep 2021, 8:09 am
So you criticize Biden for his mask wearing habits and yet you brag about flouting the same rules yourself. Hypocritical much?
Comprehension issue? There are a slew of exemptions to wearing a mask, at least a dozen, maybe 15 or so. FOUR of them apply to me. Senility is NOT an exemption to mask wearing (yet). I didn't realize having medical issues falls under "flouting". [REMOVED BY MOD]
Why don't you try to lay off the insults and put your arguments across in language that makes sense. Your posts are increasingly incomprehensible and if you want your views to be taken seriously, stop writing in riddles. Maybe you'd be better back at the Key forums (if they still exist).

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ZRX61
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Re: Presidential Election 2020

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DerekF wrote:
Wed 15 Sep 2021, 9:52 pm
Why don't you try to lay off the insults and put your arguments across in language that makes sense. Your posts are increasingly incomprehensible and if you want your views to be taken seriously, stop writing in riddles. Maybe you'd be better back at the Key forums (if they still exist).
Maybe you should stop disparaging the disabled or people with medical issues. Was I too subtle? :)
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Re: Presidential Election 2020

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I wonder what medical issue would stop someone from wearing a mask but have no problems wearing a full-face helmet. It can't be breathing problems can it?

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Re: Presidential Election 2020

Post by cg_341 »

ZRX61 wrote:
Wed 15 Sep 2021, 8:53 pm
boff180 wrote:
Wed 15 Sep 2021, 7:58 pm
This report is nothing short of scary.
What's scary is that Milley took matters into his own hands, told the Chinese he would warn of an attack & still has a job under Biden.
Are you insane? The bloke, reportedly, ensured Trump didn't descend the entire world in to NUCLEAR "Well, there's no need for that" WAR!

He deserves a medal, let alone keeping his job.

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ZRX61
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Re: Presidential Election 2020

Post by ZRX61 »

DerekF wrote:
Wed 15 Sep 2021, 10:28 pm
I wonder what medical issue would stop someone from wearing a mask but have no problems wearing a full-face helmet. It can't be breathing problems can it?
Ah, so you decided to up with the disparaging comments about the disabled? Well done. Perhaps have someone show you the difference between a mask against the face & something a couple of inches from it. Also: crash helmets pretty much have forced induction, the polar opposite of what a face mask does. Did you honestly not know this startling fact?
Last edited by ZRX61 on Wed 15 Sep 2021, 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ZRX61
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Re: Presidential Election 2020

Post by ZRX61 »

cg_341 wrote:
Wed 15 Sep 2021, 10:31 pm
]Are you insane? The bloke, reportedly, ensured Trump didn't descend the entire world in to NUCLEAR "Well, there's no need for that" WAR!

He deserves a medal, let alone keeping his job.
No.
The bloke did nothing of the sort. He won't be keeping his job, will likely face charges & there aren't medals for treason. Trump was the most anti-war POTUS in decades... or did you forget about the talks with NK, which were immediately throw in the trash when Biden took over or the agreements between Israel & several Arab countries etc?
Why do you think the brass at the Pentagon told Pelosi that they wouldn't be getting involved with her plan to have the military remove Trump from office? (you knew about that.. right?)
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Re: Presidential Election 2020

Post by DerekF »

ZRX61 wrote:
Wed 15 Sep 2021, 11:01 pm
DerekF wrote:
Wed 15 Sep 2021, 10:28 pm
I wonder what medical issue would stop someone from wearing a mask but have no problems wearing a full-face helmet. It can't be breathing problems can it?
Ah, so you decided to up with the disparaging comments about the disabled? Well done. Perhaps have someone show you the difference between a mask against the face & something a couple of inches from it. Also: crash helmets pretty much have forced induction, the polar opposite of what a face mask does. Did you honestly not know this startling fact?
Point to anywhere that I make "disparaging" remarks about the disabled. Your continued attempts to try and intimidate, make fun of others and make the classic keyboard warrior error of trying to make out things in a post that simply aren't there isn't great for trying to make your point. You could try, and I appreciate that this is a big ask, to argue your point politely - you will get a far better response.
Anyway, I'll say no more - this discussion has run its course. Biden won. Trump lost. The world breathed again. Anybody is better than Trump although frankly the bar is set pretty low.

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ZRX61
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Re: Presidential Election 2020

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I'm too old for polite, all you get now is sarcasm & cynicism. :)
People need to separate Trump's personality for what he accomplished. Most can't. I think he's buffoon of the first order, but he actually accomplished a lot. Probably would have done a great many other things if he wasn't distracted by impeachment BS etc
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ZRX61
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Re: Presidential Election 2020

Post by ZRX61 »

Further to Gen Millie's comments & behavior:
The Sec of Def has now said (if things went down the way the book claims) Millie wasn't authorized to make the calls to the Chinese, would never have been authorized to make these calls & bypassed his direct chain of command.
This is one of the reasons we have civilian oversight of the military. This seems to have escaped some people.
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Spiny Norman
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Re: Presidential Election 2020

Post by Spiny Norman »

Think sometimes political debate is too measured, so I'll try and phrase things in a more appropriate way.

Trump is a loser. He lost the election.

Them's the apples. Are they to your taste?

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