General Election 2017

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Brevet Cable
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Re: General Election 2017

Post by Brevet Cable »

Aviation94 wrote:This video playing on the fact she was segregated from her friends because she didn't pass the 11+ test. That's not a government issue no matter what party is in power!

It is, though.
The original 11+ system was seriously flawed, where the whole of a child's future education is determined by a single exam which failed to take into account the potential future development of that child.
The 'streaming' system which replaced it was much fairer, as the child could move up ( or down ) through the various 'streams' depending on how well they were doing.
Under that system, it wasn't decided which exam type ( 'O' Level or 'CSE' ) the child was best suited for until the end of the 3rd year in Comprehensive.
Yes, they still had what could be classed as an '11+' exam before the child left Junior School, but that was merely to decide which 'stream' the child would start off in when they moved up to Comprehensive.

The reintroduction of the 11+ was a regression.
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Craig
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Re: General Election 2017

Post by Craig »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:
Brevet Cable wrote:And again....
Corbyn at yet another constituency, outside in the open with lots of people.
May, in contrast, inside yet another building talking to a mere handful of people.

If I were an undecided voter, no way would that inspire me to vote for her.


May is banking on the fact Corbyn has more baggage than Heathrow. Risky, but Corbyn is so toxic, it's only a very slight risk.

I suspect you're absolutely right. May fully deserves to get her fingers burned, I cannot remember a more cynical election campaign ever and this has at times made the EU referendum look sane and rational, but whether she will or not is entirely a different question. I do hope she ends up no better off that she currently is though, her performance does not warrant a large majority and it would worry me deeply if the apparatus was not there to hold her properly to account. Too much is at stake at present.

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Brevet Cable
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Re: General Election 2017

Post by Brevet Cable »

JonG96 wrote:That just means he has more followers

They're open spaces....anyone can turn up and question him or even hurl abuse if they want to, in contrast to May, whose actions are aimed at preventing this.
also the fact lefties let everyone know about their beliefs and abuse anyone that doesn't agree.

You've presumably not read all the posts on here or the BREXIT threads, then..... :lol:
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starbuck
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Re: General Election 2017

Post by starbuck »

Brevet Cable wrote:
Aviation94 wrote:This video playing on the fact she was segregated from her friends because she didn't pass the 11+ test. That's not a government issue no matter what party is in power!

It is, though.
The original 11+ system was seriously flawed, where the whole of a child's future education is determined by a single exam which failed to take into account the potential future development of that child.
The 'streaming' system which replaced it was much fairer, as the child could move up ( or down ) through the various 'streams' depending on how well they were doing.
Under that system, it wasn't decided which exam type ( 'O' Level or 'CSE' ) the child was best suited for until the end of the 3rd year in Comprehensive.
Yes, they still had what could be classed as an '11+' exam before the child left Junior School, but that was merely to decide which 'stream' the child would start off in when they moved up to Comprehensive.

The reintroduction of the 11+ was a regression.


I agree although I am not against selective schools per se. I actually went through a very similar system to Brevet where we all went off to the same comprehensive for the first 2 years and then the top 25% or whatever it was went off to grammar for the last 3 years of senior school.

No 11 + hit and miss on one exam but continual monitoring and assessment for 2 years.

My kids went through the 11+ and my daughter 'passed' by 1 mark. She went off to grammar and we were worried it would be too much for her but instead the opposite has happened and she is more than holding her own

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iainpeden
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Re: General Election 2017

Post by iainpeden »

A few problems with the 11+/selective education.
1) There are,or certainly were, a fixed number of places in any specific grammar school. This means/meant that a child who attained a certain academic score might get a place whereas in the next year the same score might not lead to an offer. So it was perfectly possible for pupils of identical ability to get totally different educations.
2) the British obsession that academic achievement outways practical abiliites - some people are not academic (although should be given every opportunity) but do have all the practical and creative skills needed to succeed.
3) that over the years schools have used admissions criteria to become selective - often attracting/admitting families from more financially and/or academic backgrounds.

However, if a child from a challenged background does get a grammar school place it can lead to significant social advancement (not the best phrase but you get what I mean {I hope}). My dad and his two cousins are prime examples. All three were back street Liverpool lads pre-war with parents unemployed during the depression, all passed the 11+ and attended grammar school during the war. My dad finished up as a headteacher, one cousin became chief prosecuting solicitor for 2 counties in the west country and the last one attended a Cambridge college, was in at the start of the Open University, lectured in Australia and South Africa, gained Nelson Mandela as a personal friend and retired as master from a major university in the north of England. Sadly all three are no longer with us.
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boff180
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Re: General Election 2017

Post by boff180 »

A very pertinent video for anyone deciding not to vote today...

[fb-post]http://www.facebook.com/BBCLookNorthYorkshire/videos/10155436576809626/[/fb-post]

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Spiny Norman
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Re: General Election 2017

Post by Spiny Norman »

Now that the polls are open and the campaigning is over, and while we might disagree on which party is the right one to vote for, I'm sure we agree on one thing: please, no more elections.

There's been a plethora recently of referendums, council, European and Westminster elections recently and I think that's plenty for a while!

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iainpeden
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Re: General Election 2017

Post by iainpeden »

Spiny Norman wrote:Now that the polls are open and the campaigning is over, and while we might disagree on which party is the right one to vote for, I'm sure we agree on one thing: please, no more elections.

There's been a plethora recently of referendums, council, European and Westminster elections recently and I think that's plenty for a while!


Totally agree;until the next set of council elections or the next general election in 5 years or so or the next general election in 6 months to sort out the hung parliament we could well end up with this time around or the referendum about accepting/declining the Brexit deal or .......

Was it Churchill who said that democracy is not the ideal system but it's the best one we have got?
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Finningley Boy
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Re: General Election 2017

Post by Finningley Boy »

Nonsense, I live for the suspense and the debate! Who knows, if Jezza gets the gig (coalition of chaos) this time we might be having another within the year! :dizzy: :cuppa:

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Brevet Cable
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Re: General Election 2017

Post by Brevet Cable »

:tumbleweed: :tumbleweed: :tumbleweed: :tumbleweed: :tumbleweed: :tumbleweed: :tumbleweed:
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Finningley Boy
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Re: General Election 2017

Post by Finningley Boy »

Brevet Cable wrote::tumbleweed: :tumbleweed: :tumbleweed: :tumbleweed: :tumbleweed: :tumbleweed: :tumbleweed:

Mr Cable,

I s the post above a comment on general British electoral apathy?

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Brevet Cable
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Re: General Election 2017

Post by Brevet Cable »

No.
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Russ
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Re: General Election 2017

Post by Russ »

Spiny Norman wrote:Now that the polls are open and the campaigning is over, and while we might disagree on which party is the right one to vote for, I'm sure we agree on one thing: please, no more elections.

Yes, we can all get back to being naughty and running through wheat fields. :lol:

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starbuck
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Re: General Election 2017

Post by starbuck »

Hilarious.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-4020190 ... ng-station

The funniest thing is they were there for Tim Farron!

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Aviation94
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Re: General Election 2017

Post by Aviation94 »

starbuck wrote:Hilarious.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-4020190 ... ng-station

The funniest thing is they were there for Tim Farron!



Haha. I'd understand if was some mega international superstar but the fact it was all over Tim Farron! :lol:
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CJS
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Re: General Election 2017

Post by CJS »

Aviation94 wrote:
starbuck wrote:Hilarious.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-4020190 ... ng-station

The funniest thing is they were there for Tim Farron!



Haha. I'd understand if was some mega international superstar but the fact it was all over Tim Farron! :lol:


Love it, "ooh, they're having a proper scrap..." Me thinks you had rather a sheltered upbringing dear lady. :grin:
With just the slightest bit of finesse, I might have made a little less mess.

TKK 140
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Re: General Election 2017

Post by TKK 140 »

jalfrezi wrote:
TKK 140 wrote:
We are in it together, but not so disproportionally as some seem to expect.


No we're not, how does austerity affect the super rich?

They have no need of public services so the cuts don't affect them, and an increase in inflation or tax may mean they make slightly less profit per year - but both of these will affect the poorest in society 'disproportionally'.


Bad argument. I think they do use them, A&E and sure at least for refuse collection, roads, street lighting etc. Why should they not? Why should they bail everyone out whenever the Labour Party promise the earth but expect others to pay for it. Blaming them and seeing them as the magic money tree is shear envy and spite.
I'm all for helping those who genuinely can't help themselves, but not to the dependence degree you expect, that's for sure.

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Re: General Election 2017

Post by TKK 140 »

Russ wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:
speedbird2639 wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:Regarding celebrity endorsements, if you're so thick you need to be told who to vote for, you really shouldn't be trusted to vote at all.


There was an article recently (which I can't find a link to at the moment unfortunately) which basically stated that very few people pay any attention to celebrity endorsements of politicians.

I do agree that you should have to register to vote before each GE and part of the process would be 20 questions at a fairly high generic level to test if you have watched the news or Newsnight or Question Time recently and have a vague understanding about the main issues.


I guarantee had there been any IQ test like you mention at the polling booth a year ago, there'd be no election tomorrow...

That is absolutely spot on. :up:


Yes, every remainer would have been prevented from voting :lmao:
Just a little tongue in cheek humour.

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jalfrezi
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Re: General Election 2017

Post by jalfrezi »

TKK 140 wrote:
jalfrezi wrote:
TKK 140 wrote:
We are in it together, but not so disproportionally as some seem to expect.


No we're not, how does austerity affect the super rich?

They have no need of public services so the cuts don't affect them, and an increase in inflation or tax may mean they make slightly less profit per year - but both of these will affect the poorest in society 'disproportionally'.


Bad argument. I think they do use them, A&E and sure at least for refuse collection, roads, street lighting etc. Why should they not? Why should they bail everyone out whenever the Labour Party promise the earth but expect others to pay for it. Blaming them and seeing them as the magic money tree is shear envy and spite.
I'm all for helping those who genuinely can't help themselves, but not to the dependence degree you expect, that's for sure.


I was talking super rich not your neighbour who might earn £150k, the super rich don't 'need' any of that, geez they can afford to buy their own islands. How much wealth does one person need? It smacks of insatiable greed, whereas you and I may put 100% of our earnings back into the economy one way or another, the super rich siphon money out of the economy to off shore tax havens, how does that benefit our society? We're all in this together - don't make me laugh....

vandal
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Re: General Election 2017

Post by vandal »

TKK 140 wrote: Why should they bail everyone out whenever the Labour Party promise the earth but expect others to pay for it.


Where, exactly, are the Conservative's going to get the money to pay for their still uncosted Manifesto?

The last I'd heard was T May saying they had figures but we'd have to wait until the next Budget to see them.

Doesn't that worry you?

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Re: General Election 2017

Post by vandal »

TKK 140 wrote:I'm all for helping those who genuinely can't help themselves,


Not if you vote Conservative. You might be personally, and that's commendable, but thus far the last 7 years of Austerity have not been to the benefit of the most vulnerable in our society.

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farnboroughrob
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Re: General Election 2017

Post by farnboroughrob »

Am I the only one reveling in the news today being about whats happening in the rest of the world? No talk of elections for one day only. I would stay up tonight but have a 5am start so will find out soon enough.

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Re: General Election 2017

Post by AlexC »

Brevet Cable wrote:The original 11+ system was seriously flawed, where the whole of a child's future education is determined by a single exam which failed to take into account the potential future development of that child.


Not completely true. There was the 13+ exam for SM children which if they passed they could transfer to a technical school. I and many of my friends went down that route, and I haven't done too badly, working in architecture. Really can't understand why the powers that be did away with technical schools.
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tache3
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Re: General Election 2017

Post by tache3 »

It seems to me that the Labour Party seem to have missed a win/win situation. They could have easily won this election by pledging to introduce proportional representation once they were in office. This would ensure a shift in support (although it would only surely be temporary for obvious reasons) from the smaller parties whch would probably have been enough to carry them through.

After a term iin office, their policies would either have been successful (or at least palatable to a large section of the electorate) ensuring re-election. On the other hand, should their time in government not go so well, surely they would still retain a significant presence in the House Of Commons under PR? Certainly more than they could have expected if they lose under FPTP...

OK, so the big gamble would be whether the influence of increased numbers of marginal parties would scupper any long term strategies that Labour may have. As well as givng a wider platform to some possibly unsavory viewpoints, perhaps.

Just a thought.

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Brevet Cable
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Re: General Election 2017

Post by Brevet Cable »

farnboroughrob wrote:Am I the only one reveling in the news today being about whats happening in the rest of the world? No talk of elections for one day only. I would stay up tonight but have a 5am start so will find out soon enough.

Nope, because all that seems to be on the news at the moment is the political assassination of Trump by Comey.
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