Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

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ericbee123
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by ericbee123 »

Displayed as a 6 at Blackpool yesterday ( one went tech - I guess - they didn’t bring a spare this time ).

The synchro pair were a synchro solo and looked decidedly odd doing synchro passes without an opposing mirror.

Lots of gaps in the display.
Disclaimer-I have spell/grammar checked this post, it may still contain mistakes that might cause offence.

Flare Path
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by Flare Path »

They displayed as a 6 last week for the RAF Shawbury family day.

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aviodromefriend
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by aviodromefriend »

Mike wrote:
Mon 15 Aug 2022, 8:15 am
Reds in the news again

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/re ... a5ef8eeaec
Most of that being the same as what all this started, as an article from the Daily Mail citing the Sun as its source.

On the other hand, I've struggled if I should post it anywhere or keep it quite, but at my hotel for RIAT I was in the lift when a female Blue entered, then one floor lower another (this time male) Blue also got in. He then asked her about her quitting from the job, she said that it wasn't worth it to continue. Doesn't sound as everything was going that well within the Reds.
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speedbird2639
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by speedbird2639 »

From the reports being made it certainly seems that the Reds operation is developing into some sort of Alpha male 'clique' which is being headed by absentee managers/ commanders who seem oblivious to it all.

A cynical person might even suggest they are encouraging it to hasten the windings up of the reds as an option.

A few years ago they had a really 'dynamic' display, then they lapsed back to their 'normal' slightly wilted display and then this year we have this absolute farce which just makes them look like a national embarrassment.

Maybe its time to 'pull the plug'.

JonMann
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by JonMann »

ericbee123 wrote:
Mon 15 Aug 2022, 9:36 am
Displayed as a 6 at Blackpool yesterday ( one went tech - I guess - they didn’t bring a spare this time ).

The synchro pair were a synchro solo and looked decidedly odd doing synchro passes without an opposing mirror.

Lots of gaps in the display.
One of the pilots had food poisoning from reports I have read elsewhere.

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jasonT1981
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by jasonT1981 »

Saw a photo from Saturday, it was the Jubilee section of their display. The Red at the very bottom of the formation looked out of formation, with a bigger gap between him and the rest of the Reds, compared to the gap between the others.

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Bodz156
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by Bodz156 »

So much for 'Eclat' I guess...another similar story appeared in the Telegraph.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/0 ... c-culture/

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aviodromefriend
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by aviodromefriend »

"We will not be commenting further on the individual circumstances of these moves, which have been made without prejudice and are a result of both personal and professional reasons.
Kirsty and Ben Murphy, anyone?
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Thoughtful_Flyer
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by Thoughtful_Flyer »

Further larger article in today's newspaper (if you can call the Daily Mail that)!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ended.html

Little if anything new but doesn't present a good or professional image.

Equally the photo earlier in the week of the pilots on the Red Arrows rollercoaster ride looked somewhat uncomfortable I thought.....

verreli
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by verreli »

Quote from the Gladiator movie... "You have a great name. He must kill your name before he kills you"

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BobL
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by BobL »

Thoughtful_Flyer wrote:
Sat 20 Aug 2022, 10:14 am
Further larger article in today's newspaper (if you can call the Daily Mail that)!
For these well-heeled revellers were actually off-duty pilots from the Red Arrows, the Royal Air Force’s elite aerobatics team, along with hangers on from ‘the blues’, their in-house engineers and support staff.
"hangers on"?....

Makes the "Blues" sound like a bunch of groupies...
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Thoughtful_Flyer
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by Thoughtful_Flyer »

BobL wrote:
Sat 20 Aug 2022, 11:33 am
Thoughtful_Flyer wrote:
Sat 20 Aug 2022, 10:14 am
Further larger article in today's newspaper (if you can call the Daily Mail that)!
For these well-heeled revellers were actually off-duty pilots from the Red Arrows, the Royal Air Force’s elite aerobatics team, along with hangers on from ‘the blues’, their in-house engineers and support staff.
"hangers on"?....

Makes the "Blues" sound like a bunch of groupies...
Well, what do you expect from the Daily Mail!

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Tommy
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by Tommy »

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/05dc ... 69fd575e33

Gosh, it’s really not good reading at all. In a great many other jobs and professions, I daresay that behaviour would be tantamount to gross misconduct and even sackable. All credit to Sqn Ldr Critchell for calling it out & following his conscience.

Flying the jets whilst alcohol was still (allegedly) in their bloodstream 🫣

The RAF are going to have to properly deal with this. Concluding the inquiry “and taking appropriate measures” is simply not going to be enough - they need to overhaul, and be seen to overhaul, the entire organisation/leadership of the squadron.

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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by iainpeden »

Given the few shows there are left this year and the less than satisfactory quality of the display, in terms of both impact and “tightness”, it’s time they were stood down this year.

Use the next months to rebuild, get new members, and put together a unit will be together until 2028 when the Hawks will be close to the end.

Or stand them down and develop an RAFHF with Hunters, buccaneers, a couple of Hawk T.1s and that old tin triangle at Doncaster (so killing two birds with one stone.)
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by G-CVIX »

Tommy wrote:
Wed 24 Aug 2022, 7:09 am
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/05dc ... 69fd575e33

Gosh, it’s really not good reading at all. In a great many other jobs and professions, I daresay that behaviour would be tantamount to gross misconduct and even sackable. All credit to Sqn Ldr Critchell for calling it out & following his conscience.

Flying the jets whilst alcohol was still (allegedly) in their bloodstream 🫣

The RAF are going to have to properly deal with this. Concluding the inquiry “and taking appropriate measures” is simply not going to be enough - they need to overhaul, and be seen to overhaul, the entire organisation/leadership of the squadron.
Sickening reading - a total embarrassment as the RAF and as human beings! So much for "Eclat"...
Last edited by G-CVIX on Wed 24 Aug 2022, 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Paulish
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by Paulish »

G-CVIX wrote:
Wed 24 Aug 2022, 7:31 am
Tommy wrote:
Wed 24 Aug 2022, 7:09 am
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/05dc ... 69fd575e33

Gosh, it’s really not good reading at all. In a great many other jobs and professions, I daresay that behaviour would be tantamount to gross misconduct and even sackable. All credit to Sqn Ldr Critchell for calling it out & following his conscience.

Flying the jets whilst alcohol was still (allegedly) in their bloodstream 🫣

The RAF are going to have to properly deal with this. Concluding the inquiry “and taking appropriate measures” is simply not going to be enough - they need to overhaul, and be seen to overhaul, the entire organisation/leadership of the squadron.
Sickening reading - a total embarrassment as the RAF and as human beings! So much for "Eclat!"...
I think the title of the thread needs changing-it doesn’t begin to describe such abhorrent and embarrassing behaviour that it is coming to light regarding our “elite” team. The writing on the wall?

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Orion
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by Orion »

Paulish wrote:
Wed 24 Aug 2022, 8:50 am
G-CVIX wrote:
Wed 24 Aug 2022, 7:31 am
Tommy wrote:
Wed 24 Aug 2022, 7:09 am
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/05dc ... 69fd575e33

Gosh, it’s really not good reading at all. In a great many other jobs and professions, I daresay that behaviour would be tantamount to gross misconduct and even sackable. All credit to Sqn Ldr Critchell for calling it out & following his conscience.

Flying the jets whilst alcohol was still (allegedly) in their bloodstream 🫣

The RAF are going to have to properly deal with this. Concluding the inquiry “and taking appropriate measures” is simply not going to be enough - they need to overhaul, and be seen to overhaul, the entire organisation/leadership of the squadron.
Sickening reading - a total embarrassment as the RAF and as human beings! So much for "Eclat!"...
I think the title of the thread needs changing-it doesn’t begin to describe such abhorrent and embarrassing behaviour that it is coming to light regarding our “elite” team. The writing on the wall?
I'd be surprised if the "writing is the wall" in the sense that the Red Arrows are to be disbanded, but the article makes it clear that such behaviour is all too common in the RAF.
I an surprised at the ages (late thirties) of these two flight lieutenants. Clearly they are not thought to have further potential, perhaps time to introduce short term commissions?

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Tommy
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by Tommy »

I think the ages are fine (and reflect seniority/experience to be flying with the Reds) but that almost makes such behaviour even more surprising. The Reds ought to be the adults in the room as it were.

It’d be no more defensible if they were green-behind-the-ears 20 year olds, but you might be able to understand it a little more with young single men than married, settled, matured officers of the Royal Air Force.

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Brevet Cable
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by Brevet Cable »

They're no different to Army & Navy personnel with their antics, more so because they are Officers ( who are labelled as 'elite' )
Plenty of Officers & Senior NCOs have been caught out doing the same or worse, including far older VSOs
But then, the same can be said for Police Officers, politicians, Company Directors, etc. -- being an utter tool isn't solely an RAF issue.
And there are probably a number of you on here who'll have heard the alternative use for a certain branded washing powder box ( OMO ) with regards Military married quarters in the past.

That said, giving the failings associated with RAFAT in the past, it's a wonder they weren't disbanded years ago.
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by Mike »

It’s also notable that, of the 5 fatal accidents in the RAF since 2010, 3 of them involve the Reds. There seems to be something fundamentally amiss with the operation in recent years.

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starbuck
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by starbuck »

Never in the RAF so I wouldn't know but can you just resign (officers) or leave (Blues) the squadron such as is mentioned in the articles / posts above?

I accept that you need to apply to become a red but once you are in thats you for the next couple of years isn't it? Surely if you resign from the Reds, (even on a point of principle due to behaviour of others) you are resigning your commission full stop?

Same with the Blues, is it not just a posting the same as to any other squadron? You can't just quit because it isn't worth it to continue can you?

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Brevet Cable
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by Brevet Cable »

Presumably no different from any other branch of the Armed Forces where you are on a temporary attachment - you can turn around at any time & say they don't want to play any more, in which case you'd either be RTU'd or transferred to other duties.
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by iainpeden »

I have just read the BBC article and suddenly it all makes sense.
ACM Sir Michael Wigston was a surprise appointment made by Gavin Williamson - the well known fire place salesman.
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by FGR2 »

iainpeden wrote:
Wed 24 Aug 2022, 4:07 pm
I have just read the BBC article and suddenly it all makes sense.
ACM Sir Michael Wigston was a surprise appointment made by Gavin Williamson - the well known fire place salesman.
Wigston has surely got to go. Training in chaos, woke recruitment, and the Reds mired in scandal. It does add up when you hear that Williamson had involvement in his appointment.

How Williamson ever managed to sell a fireplace without boring his customers to death with his dreary monotone I will never know! I don’t know what credentials you need to be appointed head of the RAF, or how someone like Williamson would have been in a position to judge suitability.

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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by JMC »

An accident waiting to happen..

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