Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

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Zoom
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Zoom »

Looks like the EU states' heads (rather than Barnier who depends on it for a job for now) have decided to let us dangle like the heads on spikes on London Bridge of old

all for fishing which accounts for 0.25% (or is it 0.025?) of our exports to the EU

Head for the hills!!!

(and change every penny of spare cash into euros)

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CJS
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by CJS »

Zoom wrote:
Thu 03 Dec 2020, 8:43 pm

(and change every penny of spare cash into euros)
Rofl...
With just the slightest bit of finesse, I might have made a little less mess.

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iainpeden
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by iainpeden »

All praise to the great Boris

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55255082
(Mark Twain: There are lies, there are damn lies and then there are statistics)

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Tommy
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Tommy »

Great news, naturally, but:

“The agreement largely mirrors an existing deal between Singapore and the European Union (EU).”

It’s a hell of a lot of work to get something that we already had. It’s certainly no loss, but I don’t think that can be called a win, either.

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rockfordstone
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by rockfordstone »

Tommy wrote:
Thu 10 Dec 2020, 10:05 am
Great news, naturally, but:

“The agreement largely mirrors an existing deal between Singapore and the European Union (EU).”

It’s a hell of a lot of work to get something that we already had. It’s certainly no loss, but I don’t think that can be called a win, either.
it can't really be called a win, but it can be spun as one.
you know right now people will be like "and the remoaner elite said we would never get these deals outside of the EU" and "we don't need the EU, we are making our own trade deals". some people are so down the rabbit hole they'd believe a deal which gives us the same or less actually gives us more

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Tommy
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Tommy »

Any “remainer” who isn’t pleased by the news is an idiot, and any Brexiteer who say “remainers said we wouldn’t get any trade deals!” is a liar.

I can’t wait until we can drop the “remainers” vs “Brexiteers” line, too. It’s done. We all need to hope for the very best now.

There are lots of articles about how “remainers shouldn’t gloat over Brexit going badly” and they genuinely make my heart sink. As if we’re in a position to gloat. We’re all in this together. If Brexit goes badly, I’ll be angry. Angry as hell because people were told that it would likely go badly, and were shouted at in the face for not being patriotic, or scaremongering, but gloat? Nah. “That’s like gloating that your flatmate has Covid”, as someone today put it.

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iainpeden
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by iainpeden »

Tommy wrote:
Thu 10 Dec 2020, 10:51 am

I can’t wait until we can drop the “remainers” vs “Brexiteers” line, too. It’s done. We all need to hope for the very best now.
Spot on, Tommy we all need to move on and work together.
As for the angry bit - I did and still do support the UK leaving the EU but am very angry at the incompetence of the Tory leadership throughout the whole business (Cameron shouldn't be elevated to the Lords but should be incarcerated in the Tower for sheer lack of bottle.)
That said - interesting that all commentators say that 95% of the deal is done and that the EU today has published interim travel plans.
(Mark Twain: There are lies, there are damn lies and then there are statistics)

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Spiny Norman
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Spiny Norman »

iainpeden wrote:
Thu 10 Dec 2020, 11:38 am

That said - interesting that all commentators say that 95% of the deal is done and that the EU today has published interim travel plans.
Interim travel plans for a no-deal. Possibly contingent on UK allowing access to the sea for the fish.

This has been an abject period for UK politics and hopefully not for the rest of us.

What leader goes to meet another leader, with great fanfare, and has nothing new to bring to the table? Did the blond clown think he was going to use his charm? Just naive behaviour. You wouldn't let this man run your local cricket team.

disgruntled
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by disgruntled »

There is a lot of justified criticism of UK Govt going on however I can’t help noticing that no one has picked up on the fact that by all accounts a deal was all but in the bag a few days ago until the EU reneged on a lot of agreements and threw the entire process into unnecessary doubt and turmoil. It appears that France in particular are running with their own national interests rather than those of the EU as a whole.
And yet, let’s not stop this from the easy pickings available by Boris bashing.

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pbeardmore
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by pbeardmore »

"by all accounts" - what accounts? UK gov will brief against the EU and UK media mostly lap it up and some want to believe it with no attempt to verify or prove.
“The best computer is a man, and it’s the only one that can be mass-produced by unskilled labour.”

disgruntled
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by disgruntled »

pbeardmore wrote:
Thu 10 Dec 2020, 1:40 pm
"by all accounts" - what accounts? UK gov will brief against the EU and UK media mostly lap it up and some want to believe it with no attempt to verify or prove.
Well without actually being able to be there in person all one can do is read a range of comment through a wide spread of media outlets. Which is what I have done.
If you are aware of any other way of being informed please let me know, although I wouldn’t recommend bugging and I can’t really see any of us becoming a member of the negotiating team at this late stage.

But in all seriousness, the fact that access to UK fishing grounds is a major bone of contention would suggest that countries who have a nationally political self interest in maintaining this particular status quo are using it to destabilise potential agreements that had already been made.
And as for the disagreements about the level playing field. It does seem that the role of “having your cake and eat it” is being taken up by elements of the EU

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iainpeden
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by iainpeden »

disgruntled wrote:
Thu 10 Dec 2020, 1:29 pm
There is a lot of justified criticism of UK Govt going on however I can’t help noticing that no one has picked up on the fact that by all accounts a deal was all but in the bag a few days ago until the EU reneged on a lot of agreements and threw the entire process into unnecessary doubt and turmoil. It appears that France in particular are running with their own national interests rather than those of the EU as a whole.
And yet, let’s not stop this from the easy pickings available by Boris bashing.
I think you're right and it rather reminds me of the episode of Yes, Minister/Yes, Prime Minister where Sir Humphrey explains to Hacker that the nuclear deterrent is nothing to do with Russia but all about keeping France at bay.
But seriously, if (a big if) the report that a major sticking point is the EU expectation that we agree to sign up to future rules and rule changes then I think it's a valid reason to say "non".
(Mark Twain: There are lies, there are damn lies and then there are statistics)

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Spiny Norman
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Spiny Norman »

It is true, it is very easy to bash Boris, because he's so utterly useless! There will be a run of 'blame the EU' stories and briefings now because it suits Boris the Clown to portray them as The Baddies. He's the white knight of British sovereignity riding like the Light Brigade into the guns of Merkel, Macron etc.

The fact remains that we have had months to get this sorted. If covid has disrupted the timetable, then it should have been postponed.

IATthenRIAT
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by IATthenRIAT »

Why on earth under the current crisis hasn't this been delayed or even put to a referendum as I am sure a lot of peoples minds would be different now.

RAF4EVER
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by RAF4EVER »

A Referendum caused this. :grinning:

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iainpeden
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by iainpeden »

RAF4EVER wrote:
Thu 10 Dec 2020, 7:07 pm
A Referendum caused this. :grinning:
Blame the French - much more fun.
(Mark Twain: There are lies, there are damn lies and then there are statistics)

RAF4EVER
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by RAF4EVER »

Blame Boris.
Put the following in order:
Brewery, A, Organise,,In,Could,A,Not,P*ss-Up,
:rage: :rage:

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starbuck
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by starbuck »

Spiny Norman wrote:
Thu 10 Dec 2020, 1:06 pm

What leader goes to meet another leader, with great fanfare, and has nothing new to bring to the table?
Ursula Von der Leyen

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rockfordstone
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by rockfordstone »

IATthenRIAT wrote:
Thu 10 Dec 2020, 6:59 pm
Why on earth under the current crisis hasn't this been delayed or even put to a referendum as I am sure a lot of peoples minds would be different now.
the same reason there was a referendum in the first place, maintaining power.

if johnson delayed he'd be seen as going back on his word to "get brexit done", this would lead to loss of backbenchers, potential loss of trust from supporters thus leading to another rise in popularity of the Brexit party and UKIP in tory held seats.

brexit isn't and never has been about making the country better, the whole referendum was to put the parties that could take power in tory seats back in their boxes.

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Spiny Norman
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Spiny Norman »

starbuck wrote:
Thu 10 Dec 2020, 7:55 pm
Spiny Norman wrote:
Thu 10 Dec 2020, 1:06 pm

What leader goes to meet another leader, with great fanfare, and has nothing new to bring to the table?
Ursula Von der Leyen
Laughs out loud.

I walked into that didn’t I!

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starbuck
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by starbuck »

Sorry, couldn't resist!

IATthenRIAT
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by IATthenRIAT »

rockfordstone wrote:
Thu 10 Dec 2020, 8:42 pm
IATthenRIAT wrote:
Thu 10 Dec 2020, 6:59 pm
Why on earth under the current crisis hasn't this been delayed or even put to a referendum as I am sure a lot of peoples minds would be different now.
the same reason there was a referendum in the first place, maintaining power.

if johnson delayed he'd be seen as going back on his word to "get brexit done", this would lead to loss of backbenchers, potential loss of trust from supporters thus leading to another rise in popularity of the Brexit party and UKIP in tory held seats.

brexit isn't and never has been about making the country better, the whole referendum was to put the parties that could take power in tory seats back in their boxes.

Dont foreget the members (MP's) who wanted Brexit done were getting paid for it to see it done, call it a nice little bonus.

Tomahawk
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Tomahawk »

IATthenRIAT wrote:
Thu 10 Dec 2020, 10:52 pm
rockfordstone wrote:
Thu 10 Dec 2020, 8:42 pm
IATthenRIAT wrote:
Thu 10 Dec 2020, 6:59 pm
Why on earth under the current crisis hasn't this been delayed or even put to a referendum as I am sure a lot of peoples minds would be different now.
the same reason there was a referendum in the first place, maintaining power.

if johnson delayed he'd be seen as going back on his word to "get brexit done", this would lead to loss of backbenchers, potential loss of trust from supporters thus leading to another rise in popularity of the Brexit party and UKIP in tory held seats.

brexit isn't and never has been about making the country better, the whole referendum was to put the parties that could take power in tory seats back in their boxes.

Dont foreget the members (MP's) who wanted Brexit done were getting paid for it to see it done, call it a nice little bonus.
Really? on one level that's a very logical and perfectly acceptable argument, an MP keeps their seat or is voted in on a manifesto pledge to 'get Brexit done' and consequently receives a salary so they are being paid to 'see it done' but I suspect you are hinting at something darker. Care to clarify?

IATthenRIAT
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by IATthenRIAT »

Tomahawk wrote:
Thu 10 Dec 2020, 11:31 pm



Dont foreget the members (MP's) who wanted Brexit done were getting paid for it to see it done, call it a nice little bonus.
Really? on one level that's a very logical and perfectly acceptable argument, an MP keeps their seat or is voted in on a manifesto pledge to 'get Brexit done' and consequently receives a salary so they are being paid to 'see it done' but I suspect you are hinting at something darker. Care to clarify?
[/quote]


Juast that - a fanancial and "Pat on the back" type situation I read years ago (can't remember where) that members who joined the Bexit party could in essence be in Two parties and get paid a second bonus for being in the second one, that was a few years back when the idea of leaving the EU via Brexit was first thought up.
I bet they knew it was not going to be a smooth ride - but heck if your getting paid to do it - why worry - the old saying "Im Ok Jack".

IATthenRIAT
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by IATthenRIAT »

Should re-name it "Brexit 1815 War with the French - The Fishery Wars)

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