Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Tommy on Fri 12 Jul 2019, 11:43 am

Parliament have voted against allowing itself to be prorogued, so Boris can’t shut it down.

Likewise, Parliament has to have a say in “No Deal”. Boris can’t self-declare it. (I think; this is off the top of my head.)

I wonder whether there’s a problem brewing for Boris that hasn’t been spoken of this far, and is a consequence of his inability to accept reality; if the extension granted by the EU expressly is on condition of not re-opening the withdrawal agreement, then would the act of reopening it, as Boris and Hunt (and the rest bar Stewart) think they can do void the extension? Would we not fall automatically into no deal if the EU allowed the agreement to reopen?

They surely can’t allow it to be reopened under such circumstances. Automatic no deal holds the door shut on any renegotiation. I’m sure the papers will run with “mean bullying EU won’t listen to Boris”, but I don’t see how they can now if to do so would void the extension agreement?

Zoom wrote: In which case the cliff is that way >


Indeed, and revocation and returning back to some semblance of normality is that way <
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby ericbee123 on Fri 12 Jul 2019, 12:40 pm

It’s my understanding that the only option open to Parliament is Withdraw Article 50.

It’s the only option that the U.K. can take unilaterally.

Parliament can stamp its feet and say what it likes, it can demand Boris goes to the EU for an extension. If they say Non or Nein then we leave No Deal no matter what.

Parliament can stamp its feet and say “we won’t accept a No Deal” but at midnight on October 31st, if EU don’t extend, we leave with No Deal.

The ONLY option that Parliament can do is vote for Revocation of Article 50 and force that through as that is the only course that is open to Parliament without EU consent.
Last edited by ericbee123 on Fri 12 Jul 2019, 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby CJS on Fri 12 Jul 2019, 12:40 pm

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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Zoom on Fri 12 Jul 2019, 1:23 pm

ericbee123 wrote:It’s my understanding that the only option open to Parliament is Withdraw Article 50.

It’s the only option that the U.K. can take unilaterally.

Parliament can stamp its feet and say what it likes, it can demand Boris goes to the EU for an extension. If they say Non or Nein then we leave No Deal no matter what.

Parliament can stamp its feet and say “we won’t accept a No Deal” but at midnight on October 31st, if EU don’t extend, we leave with No Deal.

The ONLY option that Parliament can do is vote for Revocation of Article 50 and force that through as that is the only course that is open to Parliament without EU consent.


Not neccessarily, they could vote to remain in a Customs Union, join EFTA, elect a Unicorn as chief negotiator etc all of which have 0% chance of happening. The EU would soon be prepared to go back to the table as they've said, the May Deal is the best we are going to get from them if we keep our red lines. Even voting to call another referendum would get a favourable response from the EU

There are enough hard liner MPs who prefer No Deal to No Brexit for Article 50 never to be revoked.

Sadly Labour were too worried about being tainted by backing a (likely disasterous) Tory Brexit to vote for the only deal that was on the table. They still secretly hope Brexit will wipe the Tories off the electoral map and they will get back in at the next GE on a rejoin ticket. If they really want to govern what's left of the UK.

The joke is the perception that Labour voted to leave, did they? were the same people voting to leave as voted for a Labour MP? The Tories were very clever in making the results by region public (and thus forcing Labour's 2017 GE manifesto to being pro-Brexit), it should all have gone to a simple national Leave / Remain figure
Last edited by Zoom on Fri 12 Jul 2019, 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby ericbee123 on Fri 12 Jul 2019, 2:00 pm

It’s confusing. My local area voted 65-35 to Leave in the referendum It voted in a Labour MP in the GE by a large margin. It voted in 1 Labour and 1 Tory local councillor in the local elections. It voted massively for Brexit MEPs in the Euro elections.

I’m not sure who votes for what !!
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby rockfordstone on Fri 12 Jul 2019, 2:03 pm

ericbee123 wrote:It’s confusing. My local area voted 65-35 to Leave in the referendum It voted in a Labour MP in the GE by a large margin. It voted in 1 Labour and 1 Tory local councillor in the local elections. It voted massively for Brexit MEPs in the Euro elections.

I’m not sure who votes for what !!

I think people vote in the GE for a wide variety of reasons which is why labour will still have a core support. locals are generally because they like the candidates views on the local area. the EU election was effectively a protest vote this time round
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Zoom on Fri 12 Jul 2019, 2:08 pm

Presumably once we're out we can also have a referendum on hanging too? :wall:
Zoom

Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby rockfordstone on Fri 12 Jul 2019, 2:10 pm

Zoom wrote:Presumably once we're out we can also have a referendum on hanging too? :wall:

someone on the radio today suggested we should bring back the death penalty... i thought that level of headbanging was restricted to twitter and tommy robinson protests
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Zoom on Fri 12 Jul 2019, 2:24 pm

rockfordstone wrote:
Zoom wrote:Presumably once we're out we can also have a referendum on hanging too? :wall:

someone on the radio today suggested we should bring back the death penalty... i thought that level of headbanging was restricted to twitter and tommy robinson protests


maybe combine it with scrapping the hunting with hounds bill as well? and televise them?

I think it's quite common knowledge that opinion polls are usually in favour of bringing it back, which is why it's always been left to MPs who have a bit more clue about the implications (or have done in the past)
Zoom

Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby rockfordstone on Fri 12 Jul 2019, 2:37 pm

Zoom wrote:I think it's quite common knowledge that opinion polls are usually in favour of bringing it back, which is why it's always been left to MPs who have a bit more clue about the implications (or have done in the past)

exactly the reason why people can't be trusted to make grown up decisions
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby AlexC on Sun 14 Jul 2019, 5:41 pm

rockfordstone wrote:Someone on the radio today suggested we should bring back the death penalty.


'Tommy Robinson' can protest as much as he likes, it will never be brought back, and quite rightly too.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby ericbee123 on Sat 20 Jul 2019, 8:50 am

This appeared on the BBC website front page around 2am Saturday morning and now has to be searched for in the Politics section by 9 am on the same Saturday. .

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49048431
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ericbee123

Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Zoom on Sun 21 Jul 2019, 4:23 pm

I liked the Boris blimp complete with a tshirt featuring one of his own buses emblazened with £350m.

A fairly astute follower of Brexit (Anand Menon) has pointed out that there is no time left to get any form of deal (including the necessary bills to actually enable it) through Parliament before Oct 31, even if agreed today!

So BoJo is either squaring up for No Deal or is going to have to force yet another delay. The EU are not going to blink, the best they will offer is another delay. The next couple of weeks will be interesting as BoJo sheds his (mostly geriatric) Tory-pandering rhetoric and tries to get to grips with what he needs to do.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 30 Jul 2019, 3:11 pm

A dumb animal molesting a chicken....

Image

:whistle: :biggrin:
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 1:47 pm

PMBJ appears to have found FPMTM's famous money tree forest, then.
Just how any times can he give the same pot of non-existent money away, unless he really does plan to continue being a hypocite by borrowing more money than any former PM ever did.

And unlike Max Boyce's 'Outside Half Factory' song, you can't instantly produce thousands of Police, Nurses, Doctors or Border Agency staff.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Skyflash on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 2:32 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:A dumb animal molesting a chicken....

Image

:whistle: :biggrin:


Must... resist... obvious... pun...
Posting comments on an aviation-related chatroom, are ya? Looks like it an' all...
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Spiny Norman on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 3:00 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:PMBJ appears to have found FPMTM's famous money tree forest, then.
Just how any times can he give the same pot of non-existent money away, unless he really does plan to continue being a hypocite by borrowing more money than any former PM ever did.

And unlike Max Boyce's 'Outside Half Factory' song, you can't instantly produce thousands of Police, Nurses, Doctors or Border Agency staff.


No you can't. It's the only thing he can offer is some sort of pretend preparations. He might award contracts to Serco, etc, to fill in the gaps as border guards etc. Hire some consultants maybe?

We really are in Alice in Wonderland at the moment. Going to take years to rebuild UK's reputation. Or we might just become the Kazakhstan of Borat.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 3:47 pm

Skyflash wrote:Must... resist... obvious... pun...

It would make a good 'caption competition' topic :lol:

Spiny Norman wrote:No you can't. It's the only thing he can offer is some sort of pretend preparations. He might award contracts to Serco, etc, to fill in the gaps as border guards etc. Hire some consultants maybe?

We really are in Alice in Wonderland at the moment. Going to take years to rebuild UK's reputation. Or we might just become the Kazakhstan of Borat.

The problem is you've got people like Steve Bannon praising him and shouting down anyone who questions his claims & ideas.

No doubt he'll involve Capita in the process of recruiting Police & BA staff, given how successful they've been in running recruiting for the Military. :whistle:

Hopefully today's Brecon & Radnorshire by-election ( where the Conservative candidate is the one that just got the boot from there for expenses fiddling ) will lead to them getting a good kicking.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby pbeardmore on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 3:53 pm

I had to re read the news coverage of the bye election, they actually re selected Chris Davies to stand again :dizzy: :dizzy:
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 4:07 pm

Yep....their justification for doing so is that they think the expenses regulations are archaic and need changing.
Presumably they feel it's OK to commit fraud, then.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby boff180 on Fri 02 Aug 2019, 1:59 am

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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby rockfordstone on Fri 02 Aug 2019, 8:30 am

boff180 wrote:

that's clearly fake news, project fear, scaremongering.... it's going to be sunlit uplands with herds of unicorns dancing around and pooping rainbow coloured ice cream, you just have to believe a little bit more
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Georgeconna on Fri 02 Aug 2019, 1:51 pm

Y2K all over agiain.. Disaster....
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby ericbee123 on Fri 02 Aug 2019, 4:06 pm

Georgeconna wrote:Y2K all over agiain.. Disaster....


The thing is the Y2K problem(s) were real and 100% predictable. A decade of testing and certification ( and an awful lot of money spent ) was undertaken to ensure the problems didn’t happen. It was avoided. It wasn’t a made up or a theoretical problem.

After 3 years of Brexit discussions, nobody can definitively say what will happen, it’s still all “mights” and “coulds”. There is a 50/50 chance of this or that disaster happening , also means there is 50/50 chance of it not happening.

Nobody has done any real planning for it and we don’t really know what will happen. After 3 years !
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby ExVulcanGC on Fri 02 Aug 2019, 4:35 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/how-to-prepare-if-the-uk-leaves-the-eu-with-no-deal

Not much going on apparently, still lots of reading for those who have not seen the work that has not been going on in the background, probably because people are believing the headline anti-Brexit opinions that which may happen/might happen/could happen, all quoted as actual facts as what will happen, still it also might not. :biggrin:
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