Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 11:42 am

If/when they lose again, can that be blamed on the EU & the Umpires being 'Remainers'? :wink:
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby pbeardmore on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 12:00 pm

Boris telling more lies today:

Absolutely not. The high court in England plainly agrees with us but the supreme court will have to decide. We need a Queen’s speech, we need to get on and do all sorts of things at a national level.

The English High Court did NOT agree with them. It decided that the topic of the case was beyond their juristiction. That's a very big difference and he is well aware of that.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 12:12 pm

Similar to today's ruling in the NI Court rejecting the legal challenge there.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49676133
The court heard arguments that a no-deal would have a negative effect on the peace process and endanger the Good Friday Agreement.
But the judge said the main aspects of the case were "inherently and unmistakeably political".

Lord Justice Bernard McCloskey also excluded a challenge against the suspension of Parliament because the issue formed the "centrepiece" of proceedings in England and Scotland.
(snip)
A UK government appeal against the ruling will be heard by the Supreme Court in London next week.

Lord Justice Bernard McCloskey added that the courts had to "respect certain boundaries".
In his written judgement, the judge said that "virtually all of the assembled evidence belongs to the world of politics".

An appeal hearing is likely to be held on Friday.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby ericbee123 on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 2:18 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:Similar to today's ruling in the NI Court rejecting the legal challenge there.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49676133
The court heard arguments that a no-deal would have a negative effect on the peace process and endanger the Good Friday Agreement.
But the judge said the main aspects of the case were "inherently and unmistakeably political".

Lord Justice Bernard McCloskey also excluded a challenge against the suspension of Parliament because the issue formed the "centrepiece" of proceedings in England and Scotland.
(snip)
A UK government appeal against the ruling will be heard by the Supreme Court in London next week.

Lord Justice Bernard McCloskey added that the courts had to "respect certain boundaries".
In his written judgement, the judge said that "virtually all of the assembled evidence belongs to the world of politics".

An appeal hearing is likely to be held on Friday.


So that’s 3 judges who’ve said it’s a political decision and nothing to do with the judiciary and 1 judge who said it is to do with the courts and illegal.

3-1 against that’s and even better win for us Remain voters than that stupid 52-48 against win last time.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby pbeardmore on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 5:41 pm

"So that’s 3 judges who’ve said it’s a political decision and nothing to do with the judiciary and 1 judge who said it is to do with the courts and illegal."

Not sure that's correct. The highest court to hear the case so far is the Scottish Court of Appeal, they are the only court to actually consider the facts (the English court decided it was not their juristiction, therefore, did not get down to deciding whether the Queen was mislead). The Irish court today refused to consider the case as its already been heard in England and Scotland.

Will be interesting if the SC agree with the English high court re it being beyond their jursitiction. It will mean that the Prorogation is legal but only the Scottish judges looked at the hard evidence regarding the honesty of BJ and his government.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 6:00 pm

Forgot to say earlier...
If anyone's interested, Radio 4's 'In Business' tonight ( 20:30hrs ) is looking at how the port of Rotterdam is preparing for Brexit

Edited to add...
Start time corrected ( 20:00hrs is 'The Briefing Room', looking at the state of the various Parties ahead of the anticipated forthcoming GE )
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 7:26 pm

Love the cynical postulation ( which some of us have felt for some time ) that Farage doesn't really want Brexit to happen ( or more precisely, doesn't want it any time soon ) and that his present plan is to destroy the Conservative Party and replace them with his own. :whistle:
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby boff180 on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 8:27 pm

So because of the closure of Parliament, three key Bills that are needed to be in place for Brexit and for the nation to be ready on 31st October failed! One of them seen as being quite crucial if a no deal occurred.

That is how idiotic the current situation is.

Fisheries Bill

Shadow fisheries minister Luke Pollard said the Fisheries Bill was a "day one necessity" in the event of a no-deal Brexit and that there is no chance of passing the necessary legislation due to prorogation.
He called the loss of progress "a betrayal of coastal communities".
Environment Secretary Theresa Villiers - who was responsible for the Agriculture and Fisheries bills - told a House of Commons committee on Monday that she was "enthusiastic about reintroducing them soon".

Trade Bill

Having entered Parliament in 2017, the Trade Bill would have given the UK the powers to implement new trade deals and set up a Trades Remedies Authority.
It had been through months of debate and re-writes in both Houses but stalled at the final hurdle after the House of Lords had approved changes that the government could have been defeated on in the Commons.
Because this bill was near the end of its parliamentary journey, it couldn't have been carried over, meaning the government either had to pass it or lose it.


Agriculture Bill

The National Farmers' Union called the fall of the Agriculture Bill as "totally unreasonable", adding that there is now "no guarantee at all that the legislation will be in place to enable the government to begin its planned transition to a new farm support system in 2021".


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49655201
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby CJS on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 8:44 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:Forgot to say earlier...
If anyone's interested, Radio 4's 'In Business' tonight ( 20:30hrs ) is looking at how the port of Rotterdam is preparing for Brexit


Images starting to appear it would seem...

Image
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 9:45 pm

Surely you mean.....

Image


:biggrin:

One interesting fact that came from the programme is that the number of trucks loaded on just one of the superferries which operate from Rotterdam would stretch for over 5KM


Oh, and apparently every single warehouse in and around the port are already packed full due to companies stockpiling ready for Brexit....and around 50% of what constitutes a typical 'English breakfast' ( bacon, eggs, tomatoes, etc. ) are imported from the EU
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 9:57 pm

boff180 wrote:So because of the closure of Parliament, three key Bills that are needed to be in place for Brexit and for the nation to be ready on 31st October failed! One of them seen as being quite crucial if a no deal occurred.


It's OK, PMBJ has said he's going to re-introduce them...although he's failed to explain how he plans to get them through the HoC in the short time available between Parliament returning after prorogation, the shutdown for the Party Conferences and the 31 October deadline.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Spiny Norman on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 11:55 am

Surely the appropriate image is this: British lorry drivers going to get their paperwork signed off at the port.

Image
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 1:32 pm

Worryingly, that may not be that far from reality.

Again from last night's programme....

Rotterdam have just built an extra 'compound' which will hold up to 250 lorries in case of paperwork clearance problems.

Whilst most large British hauliers & companies have prepared for Brexit ( including no-deal ) some haven't, nor have the majority of smaller ones -- even this close to PMBJ's deadline they're still holding off from doing anything and are opting to 'wait and see'.

Despite all the preparations made by ports, companies & governments, they're still in the dark and operating on guesswork because it's still unclear both what form Brexit will take or - in the event of no-deal, what the British Government will do.

Even if the British Government chose to effectively bin current import checks for a period following Brexit ( in the event of no-deal ) the EU won't....so whilst goods would potentially flow into the UK easily, exports from here wouldn't - we'd be a Third Nation' Country with all the checks, restrictions & tariffs that entails.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Tommy on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 2:46 pm

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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby iainpeden on Sat 14 Sep 2019, 9:19 pm

Worryingly large number of E U flags at the Last Night of the Proms but Rule Britainnia set that straight.
Cameron’s memoirs reminds us of why many voted for Bexit - Eurozone crisis etcetc and a United States of Europe


And I have just read that Steve Smith has dual British/Australian citizenship
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Tommy on Sun 15 Sep 2019, 6:30 am

iainpeden wrote:Worryingly large number of E U flags at the Last Night of the Proms


How many is “worryingly large” and why do you worry about them?
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby phreakf4 on Sun 15 Sep 2019, 8:28 am

If I were you, Tommy, I would have given up posting on this subject months ago. Face it, neither the "Brexiteers" (horrible word) nor the "Remainers" who post on here are ever going to change their minds regardless of any evidence you or anyone else might present. I have my views on the matter but I will not waste my time posting them on here as they will not influence anyone.

Now that's a thought. Maybe the two sides could engage some YouTube "influencers" to promote their case...….

That was my first and last post on this thread.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby maltwoser on Sun 15 Sep 2019, 8:55 am

Good point phreakf4, but it's really hard to let a comment like Iain's go unchallenged. I appreciate Tommy's posts because he articulates a lot of people's thoughts and reactions better than we can!

I posted ages ago that politics should be kept off any forum for the sake of civility, it never ends well.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby toom317 on Sun 15 Sep 2019, 10:27 am

iainpeden wrote:Worryingly large number of E U flags at the Last Night of the Proms but Rule Britainnia set that straight.


So if the fat lady has sung, is it all over?
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Sun 15 Sep 2019, 11:33 am

Ca moron's book basically telling us what we already knew about 'Bandwagon Boris', I see.

And speaking of PMBJ, apparently he's got a cunning plan to go back to the EU with a 'new deal' ( which may or may just be FPMTM's deal or a slightly reworked version thereof ) which he'll then force through Parliament in the few days it'll actually be sitting before his 31/10 deadline. :roll:

More amusingly, he's also supposedly threatening to kick out the Brexit hardliners if they don't support him.....makes you wonder who's going to be left as Conservative MPs given that he's already kicked all the Remainers out :lol:

Edited to add....
And this is doing the rounds again on various forums...interesting reading if you missed it the first time around ( can't recall if it was posted on here or not at the time ) :
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/01/dominic-cummings-brexit-referendum-won/
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Zoom on Sun 15 Sep 2019, 4:14 pm

Spiny Norman wrote:Surely the appropriate image is this: British lorry drivers going to get their paperwork signed off at the port.

Image


This photo was IIRC disgustingly used by the Farage (not official Vote Leave) shower to show what would happen if we remained, when they knew full well the only change that would happen after Brexit was that we would be able to unilaterally control immigration of EU citizens (negotiated along with the rights of existing UK citizens in the EU).

It does however pose an interesting question. Assuming the Le Touquet agreement stays after Brexit (it's a UK / France not EU agreement) what will happen to migrants reaching UK shores illegally? My understanding is that currently they need to be shipped back to the first EU state they landed in to claim asylum. I presume this will not happen after Brexit?
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby iainpeden on Sun 15 Sep 2019, 5:48 pm

toom317 wrote:
iainpeden wrote:Worryingly large number of E U flags at the Last Night of the Proms but Rule Britainnia set that straight.


So if the fat lady has sung, is it all over?


One of the saddest things about this farce called Brexit is the total loss of any sense of humour on all sides; my comment was an attempt to raise a wry smile on a number of faces.

I can only speculate what W.S. Gilbert would have made of it all; KoKo's "Little List" based on the last few years would be an interesting read - and where is "Spitting Image" when you need it?
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby toom317 on Sun 15 Sep 2019, 8:07 pm

Sorry, maybe I should have added a :biggrin: or :lol: or even a :grin: That's the problem when you write stuff down, it doesn't come over the way you meant it to some folk. It was merely a play on the old "It's not over till the fat lady sings" trope. Mind you, it will take some lard ass to sing the end of this brexit farce. :smile:
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby iainpeden on Sun 15 Sep 2019, 8:56 pm

Toom, see the pm, wasn’t you I was getting at.
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