Sat 20 Oct 2018, 11:21 pm
Sat 20 Oct 2018, 11:50 pm
boff180 wrote:In a similar vein, JRM said in 2011 any vote on Brexit should be followed by a second vote to make sure the people accepted the terms of leaving. Now he doesn’t want that... he has changed his mind but won’t let anyone else.
There is a proper role for referendums in constitutional change, but only if done properly. If it is not done properly, it can be a dangerous tool. The Chairman of the Public Administration Committee, who is no longer in the Chamber, said that Clement Attlee—who is, I think, one of the Deputy Prime Minister's heroes—famously described the referendum as the device of demagogues and dictators. We may not always go as far as he did, but what is certain is that pre-legislative referendums of the type the Deputy Prime Minister is proposing are the worst type of all.
Referendums should be held when the electorate are in the best possible position to make a judgment. They should be held when people can view all the arguments for and against and when those arguments have been rigorously tested. In short, referendums should be held when people know exactly what they are getting. So legislation should be debated by Members of Parliament on the Floor of the House, and then put to the electorate for the voters to judge.
We should not ask people to vote on a blank sheet of paper and tell them to trust us to fill in the details afterwards. For referendums to be fair and compatible with our parliamentary process, we need the electors to be as well informed as possible and to know exactly what they are voting for. Referendums need to be treated as an addition to the parliamentary process, not as a substitute for it.
Sun 21 Oct 2018, 5:55 am
Sun 21 Oct 2018, 3:08 pm
Thu 15 Nov 2018, 11:28 am
Thu 15 Nov 2018, 12:42 pm
Thu 15 Nov 2018, 1:11 pm
Thu 15 Nov 2018, 1:28 pm
AlexC wrote:Well, we're never going back to 'The British Empire', and 'billions of people in the Empire', that seems rather optimistic.
Thu 15 Nov 2018, 1:46 pm
Thu 15 Nov 2018, 1:56 pm
Thu 15 Nov 2018, 2:53 pm
Thu 15 Nov 2018, 3:10 pm
Thu 15 Nov 2018, 3:26 pm
Thu 15 Nov 2018, 3:40 pm
starbuck wrote:....it has to be a brexiteer for PM next just to try to unite the party.
Europe will need to re-evaluate as they are due for new budget sign off in 2019 and none of the remaining EU members are going to agree to anything until what happens with us has been decided.
LN Strike Eagle wrote:It's time to bin this whole, sorry affair. It cannot be delivered without harming the country, it is as simple as that.
Thu 15 Nov 2018, 3:47 pm
Thu 15 Nov 2018, 4:05 pm
Brevet Cable wrote:If we haven't left by the time the next EU budget is due, we'll have to pay our share as usual.
If JR-M had any integrity he'd have handed in his letter & resigned yesterday when he met with May.
If JR-M had any scruples he wouldn't have spent all his time chucking hand-grenades from the sidelines & claiming he doesn't want to be PM -- he's no better than Bo-Jo in those respects.
Thu 15 Nov 2018, 4:08 pm
Thu 15 Nov 2018, 4:19 pm
starbuck wrote:JRM isn't in the cabinet so I don't think he had a meeting with TM or what he was able to resign from, apart from the whip and that was never going to happen.
Not sure that having scruples and voicing opinions (chucking hand grenades) are mutually exclusive are they?
Thu 15 Nov 2018, 4:24 pm
Thu 15 Nov 2018, 5:09 pm
Thu 15 Nov 2018, 5:32 pm
Brevet Cable wrote:Interesting that some people are pointing out to Leave supporters that under May's deal they are getting what they wanted - we're leaving the EU.
After all, the ballot options were simply :
Thu 15 Nov 2018, 7:35 pm
Thu 15 Nov 2018, 7:46 pm
starbuck wrote:JRM has had that letter written for months, there is no way he would have submitted it today if he didn't already know that the rest were going to come in as well to trigger the leadership challenge.
I actually like him as a politician, I don't agree with everything he says but he is at least principled and more importantly (and almost exclusively in todays House of Commons) scrupulous. He'd make a terrible PM though as he polarises peoples opinions as soon as he opens his mouth. Plus he has stated on more than one occasion he doesn't want the job.
May has been a total failure, it has to be a brexiteer for PM next just to try to unite the party. I'm betting it will be Dominc Raab as PM with Gove as Brexit secretary
There will be an extension to article 50 to the summer of 2019 whilst new negotiations take place. Europe will need to re-evaluate as they are due for new budget sign off in 2019 and none of the remaining EU members are going to agree to anything until what happens with us has been decided.
Thu 15 Nov 2018, 9:39 pm
Dan O'Hagan wrote:Remarkably, this video is NOT a parody.
Every minor detail is perfect, from the Wetherspoons setting (drinking imported Irish stout) to the Help For Heroes T-shirt.
And to think we allowed semi-sentient hams and nitwits like this to vote on our, and our children’s futures...
The 700,000 on the streets of London is just the start though, the racist, moronic, insular morons won’t win.
Fri 16 Nov 2018, 7:43 am
Dan O'Hagan wrote: the racist, moronic, insular morons won’t win.