Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

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MiG_Eater
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by MiG_Eater »

Of course many businesses have legitimate concerns over us leaving the EU, but most of the business people I have spoken to about it directly are mainly concerned about the fact that they will have to look to manufacture or recruit from a much smaller local pool - and thus pay more. Of course this is a fair concern for businesses, but to me it suggests the economy will simply re-balance in favour of the worker rather than business. This is why Euro-Scepticism has been a major part of the British left wing political remit for such a long time (before being abandoned by New Labour).

I know, of course, there is much more to it than this, and the arguments have been rehashed again and again to no useful end - but just because business feels bad about Brexit in general it doesn't mean that it spells disaster for our economy.

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rockfordstone
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by rockfordstone »

MiG_Eater wrote: they will have to look to manufacture or recruit from a much smaller local pool - and thus pay more. Of course this is a fair concern for businesses, but to me it suggests the economy will simply re-balance in favour of the worker rather than business.

you could say that, and its obviously the ideal solution. but if a business has to pay more for its staff and more for local manufacture, the business may not last long enough for the worker to benefit.
a lot of stock is put into the big businesses, but there are a massive number of small businesses who would be crippled (or destroyed) by higher import and staff rates, greater restrictions at the border etc

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pbeardmore
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by pbeardmore »

The core driver of business is profit, a key factor is margins and half of the margins factor is cost. Business will do almost anything to cut overheads (see the rise in zero hours contracts, contracting out, interns, foreign call centres, online services replacing shops, etc etc) and also remember the "world will fall in" reaction to minimum wage.

So, its perfectly understandable that business, as a whole, will "bitch" about Brexit as the higher anticipated overheads are there to see. But, in the longer term, there is an alternative argument to be made, both from the employees side and also in terms of putting money back into the economy at a lower lever (ie not at shareholder level), that higher wages will help the economy.

The economy is a finely balanced mechanism that nobody really fully understands but for every bad point, there is a counter argument to be made. But business as a whole will not give this balanced view: always looking to maximise profit via maximised margins.
Last edited by pbeardmore on Fri 11 Oct 2019, 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Finningley Boy
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Finningley Boy »

Brevet Cable wrote:Still nothing whatsoever to do with BREXIT though. :roll:

This, on the other hand, is....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50019069

Brevet, I was responding to someone else's comment, I'd love to talk about Brexit but I'm busy defending myself! Rolling your eyes indeed.

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pbeardmore
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by pbeardmore »

"I'd love to talk about Brexit "

you have the floor................
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Finningley Boy »

pbeardmore wrote:"I'd love to talk about Brexit "

you have the floor................

If Johnson gets his deal accepted by the EU, do think the opposition parties will be relieved, or confounded?

ie; Labour want Tories out, this would in all probability secure their position

Liberal Democrats just want to revoke article 50

SNP will find it much harder to push for a second referendum

In short, a deal no matter how accommodating is the last thing they want. Could anyone argue with that.

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Tommy
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Tommy »

Finningley Boy wrote:
pbeardmore wrote:"I'd love to talk about Brexit "

you have the floor................

If Johnson gets his deal accepted by the EU, do think the opposition parties will be relieved, or confounded?

...

In short, a deal no matter how accommodating is the last thing they want. Could anyone argue with that.

FB :cuppa:


Agreed. It depends on the content of the deal and how much Johnson has compromised to the EU, but perhaps that’s Cummings’ master-play; in narrative terms, it’s easier to argue against a “no deal” than a “deal”.

Though I think in general terms that a combination of the ERG camp not wanting to make the same mistake, enough Lexiteers, and general fatigue of the whole torrid affair will be enough to just push it over the line.

I suppose the next few days depends on which party/group can spin the hardest, much like the position nearly 12 months ago.

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jalfrezi
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by jalfrezi »

Finningley Boy wrote:
pbeardmore wrote:"I'd love to talk about Brexit "

you have the floor................



In short, a deal no matter how accommodating is the last thing they want. Could anyone argue with that.

FB :cuppa:



You know what, this is a watershed moment - I think I'm actually going to agree with you FB.

A credible deal would be very difficult for the Labour party to vote against when most have said they will respect the referendum result, as long as there's a deal. It's probably the worst possible position for the opposition parties, as it will make it far more likely that Boris could actually win a GE. This would still essentially be TM's deal just with changes to the NI and backstop issues, but I guarantee Boris will take full credit for the whole thing......

However, I still wouldn't vote for him under any circumstances, the guy has no integrity, no dignity and no honesty.

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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Finningley Boy »

Tommy, Jalfrezi,

Roll on next week. We'll be out, if Johnson's deal flies, if not, we'll still be in. At that point the blame game in all directions will really get overheated. Tin hats anyone?

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Brevet Cable
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Brevet Cable »

Depends what you mean by 'The Opposition'

If ( as I hope ) he really is trying to get a deal, then there are elements of his own Government who could be classed as such -- the ERG ( which is effectively a Party-within-a-Party ) and the DUP ( although the latter's opposition varies with how big a bribe they're offered )

Of the official Opposition Parties.....
Plaid & the SNP - as far as I can recall ( and I'll admit it's hard to keep track ) both have said they'd accept leaving with a deal....although they both seem Hell-bent of having an IndyRef regardless of whether we ultimately leave or remain.
LibDems - Swinson has repeatedly said that their policy now is to oppose leaving in any form.....the problem there is that there is a large number of LD MPs who have said they will vote to accept a deal.
And that leaves Labour, which I deliberately left until last.
Not only is it hard to keep track of their official stance as espoused by Corbyn, it also depends on who you ask...Corbyn says one thing, McDonnell says the opposite, and various other factions within the Party ( Kinnock's in particular ) are somewhere in between the two.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Finningley Boy »

Brevet Cable wrote:Depends what you mean by 'The Opposition'

If ( as I hope ) he really is trying to get a deal, then there are elements of his own Government who could be classed as such -- the ERG ( which is effectively a Party-within-a-Party ) and the DUP ( although the latter's opposition varies with how big a bribe they're offered )

Of the official Opposition Parties.....
Plaid & the SNP - as far as I can recall ( and I'll admit it's hard to keep track ) both have said they'd accept leaving with a deal....although they both seem Hell-bent of having an IndyRef regardless of whether we ultimately leave or remain.
LibDems - Swinson has repeatedly said that their policy now is to oppose leaving in any form.....the problem there is that there is a large number of LD MPs who have said they will vote to accept a deal.
And that leaves Labour, which I deliberately left until last.
Not only is it hard to keep track of their official stance as espoused by Corbyn, it also depends on who you ask...Corbyn says one thing, McDonnell says the opposite, and various other factions within the Party ( Kinnock's in particular ) are somewhere in between the two.


Indeed, but...'large number of LD MPs'.... I know they've hit a vein of new MPs given the exodus across the floor from the Government benches and side ways from Labour... but? :biggrin:


FB :cuppa:

PS: We now have snippets of the deal and its compromises, evidently in response for a free trade deal (negotiations to come), Boris Johnson must make himself available to hoover the European Parliament carpets once week, Nigel Farage to clean the toilets and a 50 foot statue of JRM, with his knob sticking out, must be delivered to Brussels by Christmas. Johnson thinks its a goer! :biggrin:
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Southendnick »

Finningley Boy wrote:
Brevet Cable wrote:Depends what you mean by 'The Opposition'

If ( as I hope ) he really is trying to get a deal, then there are elements of his own Government who could be classed as such -- the ERG ( which is effectively a Party-within-a-Party ) and the DUP ( although the latter's opposition varies with how big a bribe they're offered )

Of the official Opposition Parties.....
Plaid & the SNP - as far as I can recall ( and I'll admit it's hard to keep track ) both have said they'd accept leaving with a deal....although they both seem Hell-bent of having an IndyRef regardless of whether we ultimately leave or remain.
LibDems - Swinson has repeatedly said that their policy now is to oppose leaving in any form.....the problem there is that there is a large number of LD MPs who have said they will vote to accept a deal.
And that leaves Labour, which I deliberately left until last.
Not only is it hard to keep track of their official stance as espoused by Corbyn, it also depends on who you ask...Corbyn says one thing, McDonnell says the opposite, and various other factions within the Party ( Kinnock's in particular ) are somewhere in between the two.


Indeed, but...'large number of LD MPs'.... I know they've hit a vein of new MPs given the exodus across the floor from the Government benches and side ways from Labour... but? :biggrin:


FB :cuppa:

PS: We now have snippets of the deal and its compromises, evidently in response for a free trade deal (negotiations to come), Boris Johnson must make himself available to hoover the European Parliament carpets once week, Nigel Farage to clean the toilets and a 50 foot statue of JRM, with his knob sticking out, must be delivered to Brussels by Christmas. Johnson thinks its a goer! :biggrin:



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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Domvickery »

Southendnick wrote:
Can Corbyn must hand stich all the white flags that the surrender bill MP's will need to wave in support for their new overlords as they bow down and prepare to kiss bottoms as the speaker accepts his new job as official traitor and leader of the former United Kingdom now known as the Subservient State of Remainiacs to the United States of Europe, where a new law introduced by the USE forbids any democratic votes instead a system of do as we say has been introduced to keep people under the boot of the unelected jobs for the boys and girls who are hand picked by the unelected USE overlords.


Are you high?
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by parsley »

Domvickery wrote:
Southendnick wrote:
Can Corbyn must hand stich all the white flags that the surrender bill MP's will need to wave in support for their new overlords as they bow down and prepare to kiss bottoms as the speaker accepts his new job as official traitor and leader of the former United Kingdom now known as the Subservient State of Remainiacs to the United States of Europe, where a new law introduced by the USE forbids any democratic votes instead a system of do as we say has been introduced to keep people under the boot of the unelected jobs for the boys and girls who are hand picked by the unelected USE overlords.


Are you high?


Either that or the pubs open very early on a Sunday morning in Southend....or perhaps an undiagnosed head injury ?

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Southendnick
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Southendnick »

parsley wrote:
Domvickery wrote:


Are you high?


Either that or the pubs open very early on a Sunday morning in Southend....or perhaps an undiagnosed head injury ?



Clearly you don't know what satire means, I would recommend you go and find a book called a dictionary, it's a book with lots and lots and lots of words in it, it tells you how to spell them, how to pronounce them, how to use them and what they mean, it might educate you... might... but probably not.

You do realise that there is more than just left wing politics, there is also right wing, centralist is another but they always sit on the fence and then jump on the populist bandwagon many time they fudge up and bounce off.

As for asking me if I am high, only brain dead morons take illegal drugs, never touched anything that is not prescribed or available over the counter, and I don't drink alcohol to the extent to be drunk, what about you two do drugs? get drunk?

Seems only left-wing politics are permitted here, any other view is forbidden.
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Finningley Boy
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Finningley Boy »

Southendnick wrote:
parsley wrote:
Domvickery wrote:


Are you high?


Either that or the pubs open very early on a Sunday morning in Southend....or perhaps an undiagnosed head injury ?



Clearly you don't know what satire means, I would recommend you go and find a book called a dictionary, it's a book with lots and lots and lots of words in it, it tells you how to spell them, how to pronounce them, how to use them and what they mean, it might educate you... might... but probably not.

You do realise that there is more than just left wing politics, there is also right wing, centralist is another but they always sit on the fence and then jump on the populist bandwagon many time they fudge up and bounce off.

As for asking me if I am high, only brain dead morons take illegal drugs, never touched anything that is not prescribed or available over the counter, and I don't drink alcohol to the extent to be drunk, what about you two do drugs? get drunk?

Seems only left-wing politics are permitted here, any other view is forbidden.


:biggrin: :clap:

Hope this doesn't mean the recent truce is over Tommy, Jalfrezi, Brevet and Toom317! :wink:

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Tommy
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Tommy »

Southendnick wrote: I would recommend you go and find a book called a dictionary, it's a book with lots and lots and lots of words in it, it tells you how to spell them, how to pronounce them, how to use them and what they mean, it might educate you...


Heh. From the guy who said parliament can “repel” laws because laws can be “repelled” a few pages ago.

Southendnick wrote:Seems only left-wing politics are permitted here, any other view is forbidden.


Well, if “any other view is forbidden”, then your posts would have just been deleted, which they have not been. :dunno:

All sorts of opinions are allowed here. Including the ones you don’t like.

You have a right to your opinion just as everyone else has a right to theirs, and everyone else has a right to challenge your opinion, like you have the right to challenge theirs.

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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Paul_Reflex »

Southendnick wrote:As for asking me if I am high, only brain dead morons take illegal drugs, never touched anything that is not prescribed or available over the counter, and I don't drink alcohol to the extent to be drunk, what about you two do drugs? get drunk?


What a staggeringly ignorant thing to say. There are a huge variety of reasons why people take illegal drugs, the continuum runs from people self-medicating for very serious issues around mental health and trauma to young people who use them for a short time for cultural reasons before going on with perfectly successful lives. There are very, very few people who use illegal drugs through stupidity and to brand them all as brain-dead morons, just because you feel morally superior to them is awful; those are people’s children, siblings and friends.

As Tommy says, you have the right to your opinion, but you should know that your opinion sucks.

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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Brevet Cable »

You have a right to your opinion just as everyone else has a right to theirs, and everyone else has a right to challenge your opinion, like you have the right to challenge theirs.

Assuming, of course, you can work out what the posts actually say or mean to say.
There are times when I've wondered if some posts have been written using SLIDEX or BATCO encryption, or if the script-writers for Rab C Nesbit / Pobol y Cwm were involved. :biggrin:


Paul_Reflex wrote:There are very, very few people who use illegal drugs through stupidity and to brand them all as brain-dead morons, just because you feel morally superior to them is awful; those are people’s children, siblings and friends.

They do exist, though.....and in my experience they are stupid.
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Paul_Reflex
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Paul_Reflex »

I don’t deny that Brevet, they’re not all John Lennon! :biggrin:

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Brevet Cable
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Brevet Cable »

My cousins and their neighbour weren't...Lennon, that is, because they definitely qualified as stupid.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by rockfordstone »

Southendnick wrote:I would recommend you go and find a book called a dictionary, it's a book with lots and lots and lots of words in it, it tells you how to spell them, how to pronounce them, how to use them and what they mean, it might educate you... might... but probably not.


Southendnick wrote:
Can Corbyn must hand stich all the white flags


if you are going to lecture people on dictionaries and how to use them, i suggest you take your own advice before posting in future

as it happens, you are allowed right wing views on here, as you are centrist views, centre right views, centre left etc.... but as with all things, expect people to have a different view to you.
if you can't handle views that differ from yours then i would suggest the internet is not the place for you.

Finningley Boy
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Finningley Boy »

Hey youse guys, leave Southendnick alone or.....you'll have me to deal with! :hide:

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Brevet Cable
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Brevet Cable »

Has everyone run away and hid? :lol:

Today's the day....or not.
Irish are apparantly still saying more needs to be done on TWPMEBJ's 'Backstop' replacement plan.
Reuters reporting Barnier has said that a deal can be reached today.
UK Government reported as saying it's unlikely a deal will be reached this week.
Various meetings reported to have gone on without Cabinet Ministers being involved or informed ( again )
Brexit Secretary Stephen Barclay currently appearing before the 'Commons Exiting the European Union Committee'
TWPMEBJ meeting the '1922 Committee' tonight ( 19:30hrs )
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Finningley Boy »

Okay I got PMBJ but TWPMEBJ?

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