Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Tommy on Mon 21 Oct 2019, 6:13 pm

MiG_Eater wrote:
Tommy wrote:...the voice that people voted for.


No, this isn't what people voted for. They may have been the people that claimed to have certain plans if they were elected - but many of them have made an utter mockery of their manifesto commitments. If MPs were actually making good on their manifesto commitments we'd have left by now.


You, with much celebration, voted for the Brexit Party in May as I recall. A party that refused to publish its manifesto. You can’t have it both ways, pal. You can’t hold all the other parties to account over their (for better or worse not legally binding) manifesto commitments and then vote for ones who petulantly refuse to publish theirs.

MiG_Eater wrote:However, leaving the EU was never in parliament's plans, and we won't.


So why did you Brexiteers vote for “Parliamentary sovereignty!” And why are Brexiteers so white-hot angry about what they knew would happen, happen?

MiG_Eater wrote:The irony is - Johnson is a remainer


It begins. Like freaking clockwork. It’s all Remain’s fault. Anyone who fails simply didn’t believe hard enough. We’ve always been at war with Eastasia.

Supreme doublethink.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby MiG_Eater on Mon 21 Oct 2019, 7:20 pm

Tommy wrote:
MiG_Eater wrote:
Tommy wrote:...the voice that people voted for.


No, this isn't what people voted for. They may have been the people that claimed to have certain plans if they were elected - but many of them have made an utter mockery of their manifesto commitments. If MPs were actually making good on their manifesto commitments we'd have left by now.


You, with much celebration, voted for the Brexit Party in May as I recall. A party that refused to publish its manifesto. You can’t have it both ways, pal. You can’t hold all the other parties to account over their (for better or worse not legally binding) manifesto commitments and then vote for ones who petulantly refuse to publish theirs.


I voted for the Brexit party without any celebration at all. It was with a genuinely heavy heart because we should have been out of the EU by the time those elections were taking place. I voted for them very specifically because they are a single issue party. Whether it is even right to call them a 'party' is debatable itself - they exist as a pressure group to get us out of the EU.

With regard to the absolutely and totally separate 2017 general election, the Labour party cynically took advantage of it's major Leave voting tranche and said they would honour the referendum result. They have not done this. We need a general election, badly for this very reason. I don't see anything inconsistent about my position.

Tommy wrote:
MiG_Eater wrote:However, leaving the EU was never in parliament's plans, and we won't.


So why did you Brexiteers vote for “Parliamentary sovereignty!” And why are Brexiteers so white-hot angry about what they knew would happen, happen?


Because we can vote them out! The only reason we had this referendum in the first place is because the Tories knew the European question had to be settled. To paraphrase the great Eurosceptic Tony Benn - Parliament is lent it's power by the electorate. It is not for them to hand powers over to any other body.

Tommy wrote:
MiG_Eater wrote:The irony is - Johnson is a remainer


It begins. Like freaking clockwork. It’s all Remain’s fault. Anyone who fails simply didn’t believe hard enough. We’ve always been at war with Eastasia.

Supreme doublethink.


I don't really understand your point here - but just to be clear, I was only making an observation on the amusing state of affairs. To be honest I think Johnson would support any argument if he thought it would further his career. Corbyn, I find even more offensive because he is a politician who had for so long appeared to have integrity. A little sniff of power, and he's willing to utterly cave in on his long held Euroscepticism.

Is it just me, or does anybody else find all this utterly depressing. Both sides are now so thoroughly entrenched that conversation and debate seems almost impossible. Both sides are sure that theirs is the only one that can reasonably be called democratic, only their side is the one that supports the poorest in society and only their side is the one that secures a good future for the UK. I just can't see how we can get out of this dreadful mess. Here's hoping for a miracle!
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Mon 21 Oct 2019, 7:21 pm

You, with much celebration, voted for the Brexit Party in May as I recall. A party that refused to publish its manifesto. You can’t have it both ways, pal. You can’t hold all the other parties to account over their (for better or worse not legally binding) manifesto commitments and then vote for ones who petulantly refuse to publish theirs.

To be fair, though, it's a bit difficult for the Farage Cult to publish their manifesto given that they haven't got one....unless 'Leave the EU with no deal as soon as possible' counts.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Tommy on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 12:43 pm

It might be worth noting that there’s is zero other reason for the perishingly small timescale MPs have to scrutinise this legislation other than to save Boris some embarrassing headline on 1st November.

That’s it.

It’s another piece of contemptible procedure that the Tories are trying to rush it through just to save face (from the party that unlawfully suspended a democratically elected parliament, and then prorogued for a Queen’s Speech because reasons).
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Spiny Norman on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 4:14 pm

Tommy wrote:It might be worth noting that there’s is zero other reason for the perishingly small timescale MPs have to scrutinise this legislation other than to save Boris some embarrassing headline on 1st November.

That’s it.

It’s another piece of contemptible procedure that the Tories are trying to rush it through just to save face (from the party that unlawfully suspended a democratically elected parliament, and then prorogued for a Queen’s Speech because reasons).


Michael Gove's instigating Yellowhammer is another example of the Tories using taxpayers' money for political ends. It serves only to ramp up the pressure on MPs to "get it done".

And they said Ed Miliband would bring chaos...
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 4:58 pm

Tory muppet, Jonathan Danglinggoolies or whatever his name is, putting the blame for BoJo's 31 October deadline on Macron! :roll:
Is there anything they won't try to blame someone else for?
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 6:03 pm

Vote now taking place on whether or not to give the EU (Withdrawal Agreement) Bill a second reading.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 6:14 pm

Well, that's a first.....BoJo's actually won a vote! :shock: :lol:
329-299
Not really unexpected, though.

Edited to add....
Vote on 'programme motion' ( timetable for debate on Bill ) now taking place.

BoJo has previously said if he loses this vote he'll bin the Bill altogether and push for a GE.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 6:32 pm

Normal service resumed....BoJo's lost the vote.
308-322

Now let's see what he does.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 6:37 pm

So....he was lying again, then, he's bottled his threat to bin the bill.
JRM sitting there with a face like a slapped backside :lol:

Boris Johnson says "we should not overlook significance of this moment".

"I must express my disappointment that the House has voted for delay rather than a timetable that would have guaranteed the UK could leave on 31 October with a deal.

"We now face further uncertainty.

"The EU must now make up their mind at how to answer Parliament's request for a delay.

"The government must take the only responsible course and accelerate our preparations for a no deal outcome.

"Until the EU have reached a decision we will pause this legislation."
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 8:25 pm

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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 9:01 pm

Given that he scuttled out not long after he lost the 'programme motion' vote, does anyone know if BoJo's located a suitable ditch yet?
:whistle:
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Zoom on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 10:14 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:Given that he scuttled out not long after he lost the 'programme motion' vote, does anyone know if BoJo's located a suitable ditch yet?
:whistle:


I'm confused; despite everyone inc the DUP saying his deal is dead in the water has it been approved? and if so will it go through at some point (ie after the 31st as we will now not be leaving then)?

he's thrown his toys out of the pram again but Shirley a GE will have to happen after 31.10 and we'll still be in so his raison d'etre will not happen
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 7:19 am

Yes, the Deal itself was passed by Parliament, so it will go through at some point.
All that was voted down yesterday was the ridiculously short timeframe it was available for discussion by Parliament ( and by extension, BoJo's self-imposed 31 October deadline )
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby CJS on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 9:31 am

Brevet Cable wrote:Yes, the Deal itself was passed by Parliament, so it will go through at some point.
All that was voted down yesterday was the ridiculously short timeframe it was available for discussion by Parliament ( and by extension, BoJo's self-imposed 31 October deadline )


I can't even remember if I want to leave or remain. Does anyone actually care anymore?

It's like when you have an argument at home - after about an hour no one can remember why you started arguing in the first place, so you just sort of stop and go back to how you were before.

Please, can we just do that?
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby LN Strike Eagle on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 9:47 am

Brevet Cable wrote:Yes, the Deal itself was passed by Parliament, so it will go through at some point.
All that was voted down yesterday was the ridiculously short timeframe it was available for discussion by Parliament ( and by extension, BoJo's self-imposed 31 October deadline )

It might not go through by the time they’re done with amendments. One of the key reasons why the ERG supported it was assurances that they could have a no deal exit in Dec 2020, because the transition is clearly not long enough to secure an FTA. That will be amended in a similar way to the Benn bill, to force them to apply for extensions. That will lose the Brexiteer support for it. They might also attach a second referendum onto it, so it’s only a provisional pass at this point. Also, things like the customs union might be added in amendments, but the EU would still need to agree to that kind of change.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby pb643 on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 10:26 am

I can't even remember if I want to leave or remain. Does anyone actually care anymore?

It's like when you have an argument at home - after about an hour no one can remember why you started arguing in the first place, so you just sort of stop and go back to how you were before.

Please, can we just do that?


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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby maltwoser on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 12:02 pm

That made me laugh too, top tweet
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 2:46 pm

LN Strike Eagle wrote:It might not go through by the time they’re done with amendments.

Well, I was trying to be optimistic. :biggrin:
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Spiny Norman on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 2:57 pm

maltwoser wrote:That made me laugh too, top tweet


There's another going round saying that all the food people have stockpiled will be out of date by the time it happens.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 4:06 pm

Image

Would you trust a PM with worst writing than a 3-year-old.....let alone vote for them?
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 4:12 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50174402

Boris Johnson says he will give MPs more time to debate Brexit deal but only if they agree to 12 December general election.

He said he expected the EU to grant an extension to his 31 October deadline, even though he "really" did not want one.

He urged Labour to back an election in a vote he plans to hold next week.

The EU is expected to give its verdict on extending Brexit on Friday.

If Brexit is delayed to the end of November, the PM will try to get his deal through Parliament again, the BBC understands.

If the delay is to the end of January, Mr Johnson will hold a Commons vote next week on a 12 December election.

If Labour agrees to the election, then the government says it will try to get its deal through before Parliament is dissolved for the campaign on 6 November.

Asked by the BBC's Laura Kuenssberg what he would do if Labour refused to vote for an election, he said: "We would campaign day after day for the people of this country to be released from subjection to a Parliament that has outlived its usefulness."


:roll:
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Tommy on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 7:21 pm

That bunch of petulant children:

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