Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

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Paul_Reflex
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Paul_Reflex »

boff180 wrote:
The EU will back Spain over its territorial claims to Gibraltar in the next phase of Brexit negotiations by giving Madrid the power to exclude the British overseas territory from any trade deal struck with Brussels.
The Observer has learned that the Spanish government has insisted on reference to the Rock in the EU’s opening negotiating position, which will be published in draft form on Monday.
Boris Johnson will be presented with the choice of reaching agreement with the Spaniards about Gibraltar’s future or exposing its citizens to economic peril by pushing it outside any EU-UK trade deal.


https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/b ... spartandhp


This raises an interesting question now that we’ve left. Will bad news like this still be called Project Fear when it actually comes to pass?

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boff180
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by boff180 »

It’s certainly going to be a trend that leave will be held to account on each thing that goes wrong, particularly those that remain stated would happen but were sneered at.

Finningley Boy
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Finningley Boy »

Have you got your fingers crossed everything will go wrong Boff, one thing I'll say for all the remainers, never has anyone wished so hard for adversity. Just so you can all shout "I/WE TOLD YOU SO YEEEEEAAAAAH!!!!!!" Then have you're 'we were right after all party'.

FB
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Finningley Boy »

Tommy wrote:
Finningley Boy wrote:
Now before you do it, don't dare start correcting my response to your stunt, like pointing out just how mistaken my reading of each is. I understand too bloody well t point you're trying to make, so don't even start with one of you're usual forensic style over analytical come backs.


Why are you so angry, mate? Haven’t you got what you wanted?


Don't try and misrepresent my emotions young fellah, you know fine well what I'm directing my comments and observations at.

FB
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boff180
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by boff180 »

Finningley Boy wrote:Have you got your fingers crossed everything will go wrong Boff, one thing I'll say for all the remainers, never has anyone wished so hard for adversity. Just so you can all shout "I/WE TOLD YOU SO YEEEEEAAAAAH!!!!!!" Then have you're 'we were right after all party'.

FB


Nope, I hope it all goes well for all our sakes. However, initial messages/reports are to the contrary.

I’m not going to stick my fingers in my ears and go “lalala can’t hear you” everytime the myth of the Brexit utopia is once again shown to be a fallacy.

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Tommy
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Tommy »

Finningley Boy wrote:Have you got your fingers crossed everything will go wrong Boff, one thing I'll say for all the remainers, never has anyone wished so hard for adversity. Just so you can all shout "I/WE TOLD YOU SO YEEEEEAAAAAH!!!!!!" Then have you're 'we were right after all party'.

FB


This is a pretty junktown opinion, FB.

Not only do you say “all” remainers, to which, if the tables were turned and Remainers said “all” Brexiteers were thick, or racist, you’d be the first banging to the drumbeat of not tarring everyone with the same brush.

But there we are. My own post, from the halcyon days of 31/03/17 which is as true now as it was then:

john001 wrote:
The 'remainers' will have plenty of ammunition over the next few years as there will have to be a good deal of compromise and long term negotiations to agree.


Those who voted to remain don't want "ammunition"! Contrary to popular belief, those who voted to remain don't want the things they have been accused of "scaremongering" about to happen.

How much value is being able to say "told you so" when the UK is up the proverbial creek without a paddle? Those who voted to remain have not protected their position somehow. We're in this together. Something those who voted to leave, with their continued dismissals and childish name-calling seem to keep forgetting.

Perhaps there will be some, there are always a few fruitcakes, but by no means a significant percentage.

Personally speaking, I would love to be wrong about Brexit! It would be amazing! I won't care that I was wrong about Brexit if the UK does suddenly enter a golden era of prosperity!


I said the same to DragonRapide around that time, too.

Most Remainers don’t wish harm on the country just to prove a point driven by petty insecurity. That’s why they voted against being the first country in the world to impose sanctions on itself.

*your.

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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Finningley Boy »

[quote]

This is a pretty junktown opinion, FB.

Not only do you say “all” remainers, to which, if the tables were turned and Remainers said “all” Brexiteers were thick, or racist, you’d be the first banging to the drumbeat of not tarring everyone with the same brush.

But there we are. My own post, from the halcyon days of 31/03/17 which is as true now as it was then:

[quote]

Mr Tommy,

Remainers, I'm sure not all, but there has been an overwhelming barrage from well before the referendum, which has only increased, of intoned remarks, insinuations, direct accusations and wild outrageous claims for the future, in the wider public domain. Take the claim that we're mirroring Nazi Germany, absolute madness to suggest such a thing.

The worst thing you can do to drive a wedge between you and anyone else is mock the other party's intelligence, like that grinning young clown Nish Kumar who posed a question along the lines of where we expect to get tea and sugar from? It appear to be a belittling dig meant to suggest , yet again, we are all thick, we don't even know where sugar or tea originate from. He suggests we've stolen everything. If this is a remain argument its an irrelevant one, where do all of the EU get tea and sugar from?

I've never read a post from you defending leavers against the patronizing fun poking nonsense from the remain camp, you've always joined in. It makes it hard to actually place my true position on Brexit when I always feel compelled to respond to the rubbish. People who genuinely fear for someone making a big mistake usually sound persuasive, genuinely concerned and alarmed.
This has not been the case, even among remainers who think that has been there position. One in particular, James O'Brien, the most offensive issuer of the snide remark and inviting like minded callers to his show on LBC to join in the sneer fest. He honestly think he's done all he can to make the case for remain, he's done nothing of the sort. its really not what you all the time, it is very often how it is put across.

Tell me Tommy, have you ever lived in the UK/Scotland outside of the EU? Or outside of the Common Market?

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cg_341
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by cg_341 »

Still can't fathom out the quote function eh, FB? Only been a few years...

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Paul_Reflex
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Paul_Reflex »

Oh FB, what an own goal. You complain that remainers paint leavers as reactionary idiots, then you talk about the Nish Kumar story in a way that clearly demonstrates that you haven’t seen the decade old Horrible Histories package and only know what reactionary idiot baiters have said about it in a deliberate and nasty misrepresentation.

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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Finningley Boy »

Paul_Reflex wrote:Oh FB, what an own goal. You complain that remainers paint leavers as reactionary idiots, then you talk about the Nish Kumar story in a way that clearly demonstrates that you haven’t seen the decade old Horrible Histories package and only know what reactionary idiot baiters have said about it in a deliberate and nasty misrepresentation.


On the contrary I've read a few Horrible Histories but as Kumar was using the point about where we get Tea and Sugar from as if this is something we need to be in the EU to obtain. Paul you're again making assumptions about myself and engineering your dig. I don't see why that precludes me from questioning the point Kumar was trying to make.

cg_341 wrote:Still can't fathom out the quote function eh, FB? Only been a few years...


Yes I can, is that the only reason for your post? Is that all you have to say?
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pbeardmore
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by pbeardmore »

Horrible story here. It's just a fact that should be recognised by all leavers that there has always been a dark, ignorant side to the leave vote. It's perfectly possible to have a liberal, educated, enlightened perspective and be a leaver. I hope they catch this person ASAP.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ak-english
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by LN Strike Eagle »

pbeardmore wrote:Horrible story here. It's just a fact that should be recognised by all leavers that there has always been a dark, ignorant side to the leave vote. It's perfectly possible to have a liberal, educated, enlightened perspective and be a leaver. I hope they catch this person ASAP.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ak-english

That's the same thing I linked to, and we weren't supposed to believe...
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Finningley Boy »

pbeardmore wrote:Horrible story here. It's just a fact that should be recognised by all leavers that there has always been a dark, ignorant side to the leave vote. It's perfectly possible to have a liberal, educated, enlightened perspective and be a leaver. I hope they catch this person ASAP.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ak-english


I noticed you've found your quote in 'The Guardian' not the most impartial journal. But as we are, according to some, heading toward becoming an authoritarian right-wing state then I suppose this and other left-leaning publications will soon be moving underground to be published by the courageous resistance! :lol:

FB :cuppa:
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by rockfordstone »

pbeardmore wrote:Horrible story here. It's just a fact that should be recognised by all leavers that there has always been a dark, ignorant side to the leave vote. It's perfectly possible to have a liberal, educated, enlightened perspective and be a leaver. I hope they catch this person ASAP.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ak-english

Don't worry it's fake. At least that's what all the brexiters are saying. It's a remainer made poster to try and discredit brexiters. Obvious really because there is no evidence that racists voted for brexit.

(Just to clarify before some snowflakes twist my words. not everyone who voted for brexit is racist, but I'd wager everyone who is racist voted for brexit)

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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Finningley Boy »

Are we trying to suggest that this notice is official? Clearly the poster is an idiot and will doubtless soon be having an interview with the Police. I am painfully aware that there are idiots who are over exited about Brexit, the aims of Brexit itself are clearly misunderstood by those with too high a level of patriotism and too low a level of ability to think, no sense of perception or grasp of what's actually going on.

FB

PS Rockfordstone, trotting out the old line, not all Brexiteers are blah, blah, blah, but all blah, blah, blahs voted for Brexit. This is now becoming the lefty pinko remain version of "I'm not a racist, some of my best friends are blah, blah blah, but...."

I really couldn't comment on who among those who voted, one way or the other, voted. It may actually yield a jaw dropping surprise or two!!!! How many anti-Semites to you reckon voted remain? How many supporters of communism? how many supporters of all manner of sundry utterly violent and distasteful terrorist organizations, who regularly shock the civilised world with their appalling violent behaviour, voted to remain? Further, how many people who would support the over throw of Parliament, how many misguided pacifists do reckon voted remain? I reckon you're all in good company! :wink:

FB :cuppa:
Last edited by Finningley Boy on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by rockfordstone »

Finningley Boy wrote:Are we trying to suggest that this notice is official? Clearly the poster is an idiot and will doubtless soon be having an interview with the Police. I am painfully aware that there are idiots who are over exited about Brexit, the aims of Brexit itself are clearly misunderstood by those with too high a level of patriotism and too low a level of ability to think, no sense of perception or grasp of what's actually going on.

FB

Well, whether it's genuine or not it's effectively inciting hatred which is illegal and worthy of police investigation. Whoever wrote it should be charged no matter what side of the fence they land on

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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by FarnboroJohn »

Finningley Boy wrote:I am painfully aware that there are idiots who are over exited about Brexit.

FB


Now that is the slip of the week. :lol:

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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Finningley Boy »

FarnboroJohn wrote:
Finningley Boy wrote:I am painfully aware that there are idiots who are over exited about Brexit.

FB


Now that is the slip of the week. :lol:


Farnboro John,

See what I posted following your selected part of a sentence.

FB :cuppa:
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Zoom »

My 2p

So 1. Brexit is "done" and 2. time to repair the divisions in the UK?

1. Wrong! Brexit isn't done we have passed and enacted a fairly loose withdrawal agreement which mainly pays our medium term agreed financial dues to the EU and secures the rights of EU citizens living in the UK (no mention of the vice versa that's down to the member states) and also supposedly solves the Irish border issue for now. It makes no framework for what happens on 1.1.21 and my money is on another cliff edge by the way PMBJ and others in his cabinet are waving their private parts on the media.

2. I personally want nothing to do with those who brought this about either through campaigning or voting. You represent nothing I stand for, I despise you all for it and I will oppose any more damage that this causes to the UK and others as a result of this. And FWIW I don't think they want to reach out to us who voted to remain either, in fact crushing any further dissent is more likely.

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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Finningley Boy »

Zoom,

do you reckon there is anything about your last post which is at all reconciliatory? Or are you typical of the other remain posters on UKAR? Posting snide little alluding remarks and expecting contrition from the other side. I'll grant you one thing, your straight and clear. Allow me to retort, I feel the same way about people who crave rule from Europe and still think they are citizens of an independent and sovereign nation and long to remain so. I'm sure you'd fit right in with the mind set of the SNP, and I say that as a Scotsman!

FB
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by CJS »

Finningley Boy wrote:
FarnboroJohn wrote:
Finningley Boy wrote:I am painfully aware that there are idiots who are over exited about Brexit.

FB


Now that is the slip of the week. :lol:


Farnboro John,

See what I posted following your selected part of a sentence.

FB :cuppa:


I think you've missed the point there FB. Read the bit in bold again, carefully.
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Zoom
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by Zoom »

Finningley Boy wrote:Zoom,

do you reckon there is anything about your last post which is at all reconciliatory? Or are you typical of the other remain posters on UKAR? Posting snide little alluding remarks and expecting contrition from the other side. I'll grant you one thing, your straight and clear. Allow me to retort, I feel the same way about people who crave rule from Europe and still think they are citizens of an independent and sovereign nation and long to remain so. I'm sure you'd fit right in with the mind set of the SNP, and I say that as a Scotsman!

FB


it wasn't meant to be conciliatory; I think there are millions who feel as angry on both sides and no amount of rhetoric from the Government is going to heal that divide any time soon. 48% of those who voted opposed Brexit (that's 2 million more than voted for the current Government) and will not be silenced. I think the chances of re-entry (or even a tighter association) are zero at the moment but that won't stop people campaigning for it.

FWIW I didn't see our membership as craving rule from Europe but a democratic process we were part of and could have helped reform. It didn't help that our largest group of MEP's wanted nothing but out. Nor that PMDC's deal with the EU was immediately rejected by the right wing gutter press and ardent leavers which led to the referendum in the first place.

Also this hatred of the EU is hardly going to win the UK any favours when it comes to trade and other negotations, They can manage without us more than vice versa, just watch.

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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by DerekF »

Spot on Zoom. In the almost 4 years since the referendum I have yet to hear of any advantage the UK will get by being outside the EU. Lots of lies and half truths but little in the way of facts.

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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Post by CJS »

DerekF wrote:Spot on Zoom. In the almost 4 years since the referendum I have yet to hear of any advantage the UK will get by being outside the EU. Lots of lies and half truths but little in the way of facts.


For me, this is one of the most important issues. We can't possibly know what advantages (or on the flip side of course, disadvantages) of leaving will be, because no country has ever done it before.

We can hypothesise, we can speculate for sure, but really everyone is making this up as they go along - they literally cannot be doing anything else.

Had we stayed in, we'd know exactly where we stood. Not perfect in some ways perhaps, but potentially a whole lot better than leaving (again, for the sake of fairness, it *might* be a whole lot worse, although somehow I doubt it).

I disagree wholeheartedly with the decision to leave, but now it's happened, it's there for the taking.

Unfortunately, and this is what I fear, it's also there for the screwing up.
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