ericbee123 wrote:Remain could easily have shown how crazy the £350 Million a week to the NHS slogan was...
They did. It was ignored by people who hoped for the simple solution to a complex problem promised to them by liars and law-breakers.
I'll say it again, the fault and blame lies squarely with the politicians that lied. No-one else. You can't say that the side of the bus slogan was the fault of Remain for not pointing out how stupid it was (even though many did). Nor can you say "well it serves you right for not doing your research" or "intelligent people don't vote on the basis of what's on the side of a bus" logic.
Vote Leave lied to people. They admitted it. They broke the law. It's been proven.
You can still support Brexit but distance yourself from the official campaign, you know. You can still think that Farage is a soul-sucking noxious parasite, but still want to leave the European Union. The only reason people continue to defend the side of the bus lie - which was admitted as a lie on the day of the result, by the way - or side with a campaign that broke the law, is because they are invested in being "right". They would rather plough their own logic and dignity into the ground, rather than just say "yeah those guys were terrible. We happen to have the same aims, but I want nothing to do with them". And people like that are idiots. Because logic and reason comes second to tribal mentality. They get to their final position first, and then try and find the logic to get there, rather than using logic to get to the end point. Hence why you can't argue with a great many of them. Or if you do, it ends up in an absolutely nonsense "agreeing to disagree".
I think the same about a lot of the Remain campaign. I think it was one of the most poorly run campaigns of a generation. It was pathetic, and it was full of politicians and people that I want nothing at all to do with ever. But I want to remain in the EU. The two aren't hand-in-hand.
This is the symptom of Brexit. This is why we are where we are. This stupid, idiotic, undemocratic tribal mentality. Anything that is negative about Brexit must be argued against. Even if it is something that can't be argued.
Look at this "the referendum was advisory" business. I stated it as a fact, because it is. It was a single line in my original post. And I assumed that you were all of the intelligence to just take it as a fact. For some reason you guys took it as a snub at Brexit, and you all argued with me, so I explained myself, and how it was a fact, not an argument. But you continued to argue with me some more, and so I had to dig out the court judgment that very literally said "the referendum was advisory". And now there's silence, despite most people having posted in this thread since my explanatory post, which means you must've read it and clearly realised that you've realised that it was, indeed, a fact. I'm not being arrogant about that. If it was a particular argument or point I was making, then I would be, but I literally drew blood out of a stone in this thread to explain thatt he sun rises in the east. To explain what many should have taken as the fact that it was in the first place.
And anyone reading this thread in the meantime thinks "Jesus H this is so god damn boring. Bloody politics" and gets disinterested and switches off to both what you lot are saying and what I am saying. That's a symptom of Brexit. That's why Brexit is the very worst of democracy, because the electorate are so spectacularly misinformed.
Stupid god-damned tribal mentality. It'll be the end of us.
You know, in this thread, I've not really (properly anyway) expressed my own view of the White Paper or even on Brexit. I haven't had time to. I've spent the whole time going to great pains to correct things that have been said by others and trying to ensure that misinformation is dealt with.