Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 29 Nov 2018, 11:12 am

Never mind....looks like we may get a televised debate on 9th December.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby ericbee123 on Thu 29 Nov 2018, 11:15 am

Spiny Norman wrote:
ericbee123 wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46380463

UK and USA agree an Openskies agreement.


I like the deal with Switzerland. I can see that needing a couple of other agreements to make functional, unless HOTOLs are being introduced by BA, easyJet, etc!


It only seems odd as all surrounding airspace ( and the rest of Europe ) are in countries in the EU and they would rather pretend all aircraft can’t fly after March than sign up to agreement to let us fly in their airspace, before then.

We can’t sign a deal with just France or Germany it has to be the whole of the EU.

Edited to add - try to find this story ( from 4am this morning without following my link to it ) on the BBC news website.
Disclaimer-I have spell/grammar checked this post, it may still contain mistakes that might cause offence.
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Re: Would you vote for a new referendum?

Postby parsley on Thu 29 Nov 2018, 12:13 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:I'll give you a couple of clues....he's got a hyphenated surname and a penchant for pin-stripe suits. :biggrin:


I wonder if nanny wrote it for him ?
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby parsley on Thu 29 Nov 2018, 12:23 pm

ericbee123 wrote:
Spiny Norman wrote:
ericbee123 wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46380463

UK and USA agree an Openskies agreement.


I like the deal with Switzerland. I can see that needing a couple of other agreements to make functional, unless HOTOLs are being introduced by BA, easyJet, etc!


It only seems odd as all surrounding airspace ( and the rest of Europe ) are in countries in the EU and they would rather pretend all aircraft can’t fly after March than sign up to agreement to let us fly in their airspace, before then.

We can’t sign a deal with just France or Germany it has to be the whole of the EU.

Edited to add - try to find this story ( from 4am this morning without following my link to it ) on the BBC news website.


An agreement ishouldn't be required for UK registered aircraft to overfly EU airspace if their destination is outside the EU....and it's the same vice versa...it's covered by First Freedom of the Air under the Chicago Convention as long as overflown countries are signatories
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby ericbee123 on Thu 29 Nov 2018, 2:22 pm

Brexit debate: Clash over whether BBC or ITV will host debate.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46386737

Mr Corbyn claimed he preferred ITV's bid out of "respect" for viewers who wanted to watch the I'm A Celebrity... Get Me Out Of Here! final on ITV the same evening - 9 December.

"I want to watch it myself," he said.
Disclaimer-I have spell/grammar checked this post, it may still contain mistakes that might cause offence.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby LN Strike Eagle on Thu 29 Nov 2018, 2:43 pm

This is totally pointless. Why debate an issue on TV that we have no further say over? Unless they plan to give us another vote, I don't see what this stupid publicity stunt is meant to achieve? Much like her tour of the country to sell the deal actually...

Then you have the two people on it, one that is a remainer pretending to be a leaver and the other a leaver pretending to be a remainer. Not to mention the fact that neither of them are very big on detail, and if we've learned anything over the last 2.5 years, it's surely that the average MP knows absolutely nothing at all of the issues and complexities that Brexit raises.

Give me a debate with people that know what they're talking about and I might be tempted. What a circus our parliament has become.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 29 Nov 2018, 2:54 pm

ericbee123 wrote:Mr Corbyn claimed he preferred ITV's bid out of "respect" for viewers who wanted to watch the I'm A Celebrity... Get Me Out Of Here! final on ITV the same evening - 9 December.
"I want to watch it myself," he said.


Can't see your average 'I'm a non-entity' viewer would be too interested in watching a political debate, to be honest.....and those that did wouldn't understand much of it if they used big words. :lol:
Hopefully Corbyn was being tongue-in-cheek when he claimed to watch that dross, because if it's true he'll have gone even further down in a lot of voters' estimations.

On the other hand, it'll be a good opportunity for Labour to replace him on the debate with someone like Yvette Cooper.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 29 Nov 2018, 4:37 pm

If anyone's interested, Radio 4 tonight...
First up there's 'The Briefing Room' at 20:00hrs ( https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0001bqq )
Theresa May is urging her MPs to accept the deal she has struck with Brussels on the UK's withdrawal from the EU.
The trouble is that few in Westminster believe this is a vote she can win and Brussels has said no further negotiations are possible.
With the vote due on December the 11th the Prime Minister has less than two weeks to get MPs to change their minds.
If Parliament does reject the deal, does that mean a no-deal in March next year?
If not, how can no-deal be avoided.


Followed by 'In Business' at 20:30hrs, looking at 'free ports' & the possibility of them being established in the UK post-Brexit. ( https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0001bqs )
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby ExVulcanGC on Thu 29 Nov 2018, 7:41 pm

Give me a debate with people that know what they're talking about and I might be tempted. What a circus our parliament has become.



One would assume they would be remain voters then, going by the total disregard by them that there are any intelligent/knowledgeable exit voters, although assuming that the remain side has the only crystal balls and knowledge of the subject is a bit of a stretch, but if it fits the bill why change the rhetoric.

As for the second bit, I think that has been the case for some time, Brexit has just brought it to the attention of more people.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 29 Nov 2018, 8:28 pm

Is that available in English.....I've run it through Google Translate and it comes up as 'ERROR_OUT OF CHEESE' ?
:biggrin:
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby ExVulcanGC on Thu 29 Nov 2018, 8:44 pm

No, I just wanted to see if someone would critique my English writing skills to ensure that I could be considered competent to add future posts, obviously not, so won't bother. :sad: :biggrin:
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 29 Nov 2018, 9:17 pm

You voted Leave, then?
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby lambo17841 on Fri 30 Nov 2018, 9:42 am

If we are only to have May and Corbyn in the debate add Cameron so he can explain why he got us into this mess and then did not have the balls to stay.
No good having it on BBC as there questions will be biased to stay in as most of there reports are at the moment.

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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby effects on Mon 03 Dec 2018, 7:52 pm

lambo17841 wrote:If we are only to have May and Corbyn in the debate add Cameron so he can explain why he got us into this mess and then did not have the balls to stay.
No good having it on BBC as there questions will be biased to stay in as most of there reports are at the moment.

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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 04 Dec 2018, 9:48 am

Alternatively, he went to the EU with a list of unrealistic demands which he knew would be rejected then acted all surprised when they were.

And on the news today, make of it what you will....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-46428579

The UK should be able to unilaterally cancel its withdrawal from the EU, according to a top European law officer.

The non-binding opinion was delivered by the European Court of Justice's advocate general.
(snip)
The Court of Justice (ECJ) will deliver its final ruling at a later date.
(snip)
In a written statement, the ECJ said Mr Campos Sanchez-Bordona's opinion is that if a country decides to leave the EU, it should also have the power to change its mind during the two-year exit process specified in Article 50 of the EU treaty.
And it should be able to do so without needing the consent of the other 27 member states.

While the advocate general's opinions are not binding, the court tends to follow them in the majority of its final rulings.
(snip)
The ECJ statement said the advocate general had proposed that the Court of Justice should "declare that Article 50 allows the unilateral revocation of the notification of the intention to withdraw from the EU".

It added: "That possibility continues to exist until such time as the withdrawal agreement is formally concluded."
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby speedbird2639 on Tue 04 Dec 2018, 8:25 pm

Although I've been in favour of a granite hard Brexit since the idea of a referendum was first suggested I have to reluctantly agree that ripping up Article 50 and staying in the EU will upset the least number of people whilst having the least short term damage.

PMTM is a remainer and she's never made any secret of that and its close to impossible for someone who truly wants to stay in the EU to deliver any workable strategy to leave. If she tries to deliver a Brexit it will be a 'remainer's Brexit' which will in effect result in "everyone getting what no one wanted".

So lets just put the last couple of years down to experience and move on.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 04 Dec 2018, 8:46 pm

Interesting listening to Radio 4 the other night where they mentioned that David Davis, despite being 'Brexit Secretary', only spent something like 2 days ( out of the 2 years he was in the job ) involving himself in discussions with his EU counterparts.
If that's correct ( no reason to doubt it isn't ) maybe a lot of the current problems should be laid at his door.
That said, being a hard-line pro-'hard Brexiteer' it could be argued that he was the wrong person for the job in the first place ( unless, as some conspiracy theorists claim, it was a deliberate ploy by PMTM because he'd be the fall-guy when negotiations failed )
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby iainpeden on Tue 04 Dec 2018, 9:38 pm

Regardless of your views on the various aspects of the current debacle, the discussion in the Commons is showing the excellent debating skills of many of the lesser lights in the House. Can you imagine a certain President of the USAin such a debate- he would end up declaring war on Mars.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby CJS on Wed 05 Dec 2018, 6:17 am

I thought he already had.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Wed 05 Dec 2018, 10:03 am

Rather telling & depressing to see how few MPs attended a lot of those debates yesterday - as usual, most of them only bothered when the PM & other Party Leaders were there.

And on a personal note, may I say just how much I enjoyed Andrea Loathsome's dummy-spitting hissy-fit, which she's still indulging in today......guess some MPs only like 'democracy and the will of Parliament' when it goes their way. :biggrin:

Oh, and a speshul mention for Dominic Raab's sulky strops on both BBC Breakfast ( when they asked him if he regretted accepting The Spectator's 'Best Resignation' award ) and ITV's GMB ( where Piers Morgan had him chomping like a good 'un ) :lol:
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 06 Dec 2018, 9:53 am

Again make of it what you will....
The ECJ will announce it's ruling on whether or not the UK can unilaterally revoke Article 50 on Monday morning, the day before Parliament have their vote on PMTM's Brexit Deal.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby tankbuster on Thu 06 Dec 2018, 1:11 pm

Indisputable fact; If everybody had voted Remain we wouldn't be in this mess. The only people who would still be in total disarray would be the Conservative party.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 06 Dec 2018, 1:40 pm

Oh, I don't know.....I'm pretty sure Labour would be as well.
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Re: Would you vote for a new referendum?

Postby Tommy on Thu 06 Dec 2018, 5:31 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:
Tommy wrote:If judgement is handed down before December 11th,
it would have significant implications on the debate in Parliament

And if it's delayed until after 29 March ( which some cynics think it will be ) it'll be irrelevant as far as the UK is concerned.




I don't think that's a coincidence. So it will form part of the debate available to Parliament. I still think the judgment will be what I said earlier in this thread, but it's a stab in the dark. You can never truly predict these things.

Whatever the judgment is, its impact on the debate will be immensely significant.
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Re: Would you vote for a new referendum?

Postby Tommy on Thu 06 Dec 2018, 5:33 pm

I'll merge this and the Brexit threads later tonight when I'm not on the phone and at risk of deleting UKAR (though, serious offers on this are considered) .

I don't see much of a point in two running parallel.
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