Spelling and Grammar Discussion

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Alpha Delta 210
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Spelling and Grammar Discussion

Post by Alpha Delta 210 »

I completely agree with the points made by FarnboroJohn and MicrolightDriver. There seems to be a relatively small clique of members who have made UKAR an unfriendly and unwelcoming place to visit due to (amongst other things) pedantic spelling corrections when the meaning of the post is perfectly clear. In my opinion, this kind of behaviour acts as a deterrent to new members actively participating in the forums.

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Paul_Reflex
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Re: IMPORTANT - Future of UKAR

Post by Paul_Reflex »

Alpha Delta 210 wrote:I completely agree with the points made by FarnboroJohn and MicrolightDriver. There seems to be a relatively small clique of members who have made UKAR an unfriendly and unwelcoming place to visit due to (amongst other things) pedantic spelling corrections when the meaning of the post is perfectly clear. In my opinion, this kind of behaviour acts as a deterrent to new members actively participating in the forums.


Conversely, if UKAR doesn't maintain a good standard of English and slips into the social media style of language use there will be nothing to differentiate it from all of the Facebook groups. In my opinion, having a good standard of English use on the forum is a good thing, not least because it helps the discussion to be accessible to an international audience.

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Tmyers123
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Re: IMPORTANT - Future of UKAR

Post by Tmyers123 »

Paul_Reflex wrote:Conversely, if UKAR doesn't maintain a good standard of English and slips into the social media style of language use there will be nothing to differentiate it from all of the Facebook groups. In my opinion, having a good standard of English use on the forum is a good thing, not least because it helps the discussion to be accessible to an international audience.


There’s a difference between a post being unreadable and a full stop being missing at the end of the post. The problem is pointlessly picking out punctuation and grammar errors to belittle someone when the post is in fact completely understandable. :facepalm:

If people would just refrain from needlessly pointing out the smallest of errors, and instead only make a point out of it when the post is genuinely difficult to read, this wouldn’t be a problem.

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The Baron
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Re: IMPORTANT - Future of UKAR

Post by The Baron »

Tmyers123 wrote:
Paul_Reflex wrote:Conversely, if UKAR doesn't maintain a good standard of English and slips into the social media style of language use there will be nothing to differentiate it from all of the Facebook groups. In my opinion, having a good standard of English use on the forum is a good thing, not least because it helps the discussion to be accessible to an international audience.


There’s a difference between a post being unreadable and a full stop being missing at the end of the post. The problem is pointlessly picking out punctuation and grammar errors to belittle someone when the post is in fact completely understandable. :facepalm:

If people would just refrain from needlessly pointing out the smallest of errors, and instead only make a point out of it when the post is genuinely difficult to read, this wouldn’t be a problem.


How are people supposed to learn and improve if nobody is allowed to point out their errors? There should be no issues if errors are highlighted in a mature, constructive and polite way. Equally people need to be adult enough to accept what's been said without resorting to the age old and frankly boring "Grammar Nazi" comments.
UKAR needs to continue to be a bastion of proper English language.
Loafer for Mr. Da Vinci.

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Southendnick
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Re: IMPORTANT - Future of UKAR

Post by Southendnick »

The Baron wrote:
Tmyers123 wrote:
Paul_Reflex wrote:Conversely, if UKAR doesn't maintain a good standard of English and slips into the social media style of language use there will be nothing to differentiate it from all of the Facebook groups. In my opinion, having a good standard of English use on the forum is a good thing, not least because it helps the discussion to be accessible to an international audience.


There’s a difference between a post being unreadable and a full stop being missing at the end of the post. The problem is pointlessly picking out punctuation and grammar errors to belittle someone when the post is in fact completely understandable. :facepalm:

If people would just refrain from needlessly pointing out the smallest of errors, and instead only make a point out of it when the post is genuinely difficult to read, this wouldn’t be a problem.


How are people supposed to learn and improve if nobody is allowed to point out their errors? There should be no issues if errors are highlighted in a mature, constructive and polite way. Equally people need to be adult enough to accept what's been said without resorting to the age old and frankly boring "Grammar Nazi" comments.
UKAR needs to continue to be a bastion of proper English language.



Some people have conditions that make full punctuation difficult, I myself am dyslexic, and unless you have it yourself, its hard to understand that by the time the messages in your brain get to your fingertips they go a little confuddling and small errors pop up and no matter how many times people flag it up it keeps happening it's not something we can help, it's in our make up.

Now if there are any grammar errors in this post, no need to point it out cupcake as it will NOT sink in!
Spelling mistakes and grammatical error specialist

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LN Strike Eagle
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Re: IMPORTANT - Future of UKAR

Post by LN Strike Eagle »

This is all irrelevant to the purpose of this thread.
"You really are an oafish philistine at times!"

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st24
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Re: IMPORTANT - Future of UKAR

Post by st24 »

The Baron wrote:How are people supposed to learn and improve if nobody is allowed to point out their errors? There should be no issues if errors are highlighted in a mature, constructive and polite way. Equally people need to be adult enough to accept what's been said without resorting to the age old and frankly boring "Grammar Nazi" comments.
UKAR needs to continue to be a bastion of proper English language.


This. This is why UKAR should not perish, for, not only do some on here offer informed aviation knowledge (well me mainly) most on here are English teachers and offer their services for free.
Bally good show what. :up: :king: :win:
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RRconway
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Re: IMPORTANT - Future of UKAR

Post by RRconway »

The Baron wrote:
Tmyers123 wrote:
Paul_Reflex wrote:Conversely, if UKAR doesn't maintain a good standard of English and slips into the social media style of language use there will be nothing to differentiate it from all of the Facebook groups. In my opinion, having a good standard of English use on the forum is a good thing, not least because it helps the discussion to be accessible to an international audience.


There’s a difference between a post being unreadable and a full stop being missing at the end of the post. The problem is pointlessly picking out punctuation and grammar errors to belittle someone when the post is in fact completely understandable. :facepalm:

If people would just refrain from needlessly pointing out the smallest of errors, and instead only make a point out of it when the post is genuinely difficult to read, this wouldn’t be a problem.


How are people supposed to learn and improve if nobody is allowed to point out their errors? There should be no issues if errors are highlighted in a mature, constructive and polite way. Equally people need to be adult enough to accept what's been said without resorting to the age old and frankly boring "Grammar Nazi" comments.
UKAR needs to continue to be a bastion of proper English language.


Spectacularly missing the point there by assuming that people want their errors corrected.

If someone wants their written English proof-read then they can go to somewhere that offers that service.

This is precisely the sort of attitude that puts people off of UKAR.
Just because you can see errors in someone’s grammar or spelling does not mean you have free reign to correct them.
I know you think you understood what I said, but I'm not sure you realise that what I said is not what I meant.

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Southendnick
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Re: IMPORTANT - Future of UKAR

Post by Southendnick »

RRconway wrote:
The Baron wrote:
Tmyers123 wrote:
Paul_Reflex wrote:Conversely, if UKAR doesn't maintain a good standard of English and slips into the social media style of language use there will be nothing to differentiate it from all of the Facebook groups. In my opinion, having a good standard of English use on the forum is a good thing, not least because it helps the discussion to be accessible to an international audience.


There’s a difference between a post being unreadable and a full stop being missing at the end of the post. The problem is pointlessly picking out punctuation and grammar errors to belittle someone when the post is in fact completely understandable. :facepalm:

If people would just refrain from needlessly pointing out the smallest of errors, and instead only make a point out of it when the post is genuinely difficult to read, this wouldn’t be a problem.


How are people supposed to learn and improve if nobody is allowed to point out their errors? There should be no issues if errors are highlighted in a mature, constructive and polite way. Equally people need to be adult enough to accept what's been said without resorting to the age old and frankly boring "Grammar Nazi" comments.
UKAR needs to continue to be a bastion of proper English language.


Spectacularly missing the point there by assuming that people want their errors corrected.

If someone wants their written English proof-read then they can go to somewhere that offers that service.

This is precisely the sort of attitude that puts people off of UKAR.
Just because you can see errors in someone’s grammar or spelling does not mean you have free reign to correct them.


Spot on, RR
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rockfordstone
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Re: IMPORTANT - Future of UKAR

Post by rockfordstone »

RRconway wrote:
The Baron wrote:
Tmyers123 wrote:
Paul_Reflex wrote:Conversely, if UKAR doesn't maintain a good standard of English and slips into the social media style of language use there will be nothing to differentiate it from all of the Facebook groups. In my opinion, having a good standard of English use on the forum is a good thing, not least because it helps the discussion to be accessible to an international audience.


There’s a difference between a post being unreadable and a full stop being missing at the end of the post. The problem is pointlessly picking out punctuation and grammar errors to belittle someone when the post is in fact completely understandable. :facepalm:

If people would just refrain from needlessly pointing out the smallest of errors, and instead only make a point out of it when the post is genuinely difficult to read, this wouldn’t be a problem.


How are people supposed to learn and improve if nobody is allowed to point out their errors? There should be no issues if errors are highlighted in a mature, constructive and polite way. Equally people need to be adult enough to accept what's been said without resorting to the age old and frankly boring "Grammar Nazi" comments.
UKAR needs to continue to be a bastion of proper English language.


This is precisely the sort of attitude that puts people off of UKAR.


grammar police are not exclusive to UKAR. there no worse here then anywhere else on the internet.

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tache3
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Re: IMPORTANT - Future of UKAR

Post by tache3 »

rockfordstone wrote:there no worse here then anywhere else on the internet.


Wait for it...

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CJS
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Re: IMPORTANT - Future of UKAR

Post by CJS »

tache3 wrote:
rockfordstone wrote:there no worse here then anywhere else on the internet.


Wait for it...


I wouldn't dare...
With just the slightest bit of finesse, I might have made a little less mess.

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Wissam24
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Re: IMPORTANT - Future of UKAR

Post by Wissam24 »

RRconway wrote:
The Baron wrote:
Tmyers123 wrote:
Paul_Reflex wrote:Conversely, if UKAR doesn't maintain a good standard of English and slips into the social media style of language use there will be nothing to differentiate it from all of the Facebook groups. In my opinion, having a good standard of English use on the forum is a good thing, not least because it helps the discussion to be accessible to an international audience.


There’s a difference between a post being unreadable and a full stop being missing at the end of the post. The problem is pointlessly picking out punctuation and grammar errors to belittle someone when the post is in fact completely understandable. :facepalm:

If people would just refrain from needlessly pointing out the smallest of errors, and instead only make a point out of it when the post is genuinely difficult to read, this wouldn’t be a problem.


How are people supposed to learn and improve if nobody is allowed to point out their errors? There should be no issues if errors are highlighted in a mature, constructive and polite way. Equally people need to be adult enough to accept what's been said without resorting to the age old and frankly boring "Grammar Nazi" comments.
UKAR needs to continue to be a bastion of proper English language.


Spectacularly missing the point there by assuming that people want their errors corrected.

If someone wants their written English proof-read then they can go to somewhere that offers that service.

This is precisely the sort of attitude that puts people off of UKAR.
Just because you can see errors in someone’s grammar or spelling does not mean you have free reign to correct them.


*free rein
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RAF4EVER
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Re: IMPORTANT - Future of UKAR

Post by RAF4EVER »

It has started,again. :smile: :smile: :lmao:

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rockfordstone
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Re: IMPORTANT - Future of UKAR

Post by rockfordstone »

CJS wrote:
tache3 wrote:
rockfordstone wrote:there no worse here then anywhere else on the internet.


Wait for it...


I wouldn't dare...


damn i was hoping someone would bite :lol:

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harkins
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Re: IMPORTANT - Future of UKAR

Post by harkins »

Following a badly typed post on another forum, this was one of the comments posted after few people commented on it.

"But is it really that difficult to move on without the usual UKAR need for unnecessary pedantry? We choose forum name to escape that kind of tosspottery..."

I hope the gentleman doesn't mind me quoting him here.

I agree that a really badly typed post isn't good if it's difficult to read or decipher, but the picking on minor mistakes (especially as many probably post quite quickly on the move using a smart phone) causes more harm than good in most threads.

I don't suppose anything will change though and I expect that the RIAT 2019 thread will be right up there with the insanity that was 2018 (though that was far from down to spelling and grammar alone).

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AlexC
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IMPORTANT - Future of UKAR

Post by AlexC »

Southendnick wrote:I myself am dyslexic.


Sorry if this is considered irrelevant, but I suspect that that I am an undiagnosed dyslexic, my spelling is atrocious, but thankfully I know when I see a spelling mistake, or have made a spelling mistake myself. My dictionary is my constant companion, I've had to check at least three words in writing this post. And for some reason 'undiagnosed' is underlined, but that's how it's shown in my Oxford English Dictionary. :confused:
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Wissam24
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Re: IMPORTANT - Future of UKAR

Post by Wissam24 »

While disruptive corrections don't necessarily help people, there is a reason that we enforce high English standards, for the same reason you would make sure your work emails to clients are well written, or a covering letter, or our articles. If you have low standards, and the forum becomes sloppy and a mess, it gives out a pretty weak impression of the forum which suggests uninformed discussion and lack of care taken over what's being written. To people coming to the forum, the worse the English the less likely they are to take it seriously. Conversely, clear, correct English demonstrates an attention to detail, a preparedness and a commitment to effort to keep a high standard, which reflects on the discussion and the members. As has been quoted elsewhere, if you get lower you don't become better than the godawful, meaningless Facebook groups that add nothing to the world, which UKAR is most certainly better than.

That is why we insist on clear, legible English and won't tolerate the idea that we let standards slip, no matter how desperate people apparently are to be wrong about the language they write and speak in.
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RRconway
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Re: IMPORTANT - Future of UKAR

Post by RRconway »

Wissam24 wrote:
RRconway wrote:
The Baron wrote:
Tmyers123 wrote:
Paul_Reflex wrote:Conversely, if UKAR doesn't maintain a good standard of English and slips into the social media style of language use there will be nothing to differentiate it from all of the Facebook groups. In my opinion, having a good standard of English use on the forum is a good thing, not least because it helps the discussion to be accessible to an international audience.


There’s a difference between a post being unreadable and a full stop being missing at the end of the post. The problem is pointlessly picking out punctuation and grammar errors to belittle someone when the post is in fact completely understandable. :facepalm:

If people would just refrain from needlessly pointing out the smallest of errors, and instead only make a point out of it when the post is genuinely difficult to read, this wouldn’t be a problem.


How are people supposed to learn and improve if nobody is allowed to point out their errors? There should be no issues if errors are highlighted in a mature, constructive and polite way. Equally people need to be adult enough to accept what's been said without resorting to the age old and frankly boring "Grammar Nazi" comments.
UKAR needs to continue to be a bastion of proper English language.


Spectacularly missing the point there by assuming that people want their errors corrected.

If someone wants their written English proof-read then they can go to somewhere that offers that service.

This is precisely the sort of attitude that puts people off of UKAR.
Just because you can see errors in someone’s grammar or spelling does not mean you have free reign to correct them.


*free rein


As I’ve already said Sam, I don’t have problem with poor spelling and mistakes, therefore your attempt at an ironic correction is completely moot.
If you’re that bothered about correcting spelling and grammar in posts, I would look through your last one in this thread.
For the record 1, I embrace your mistakes and genuinely don’t mind them.
For the record 2, The ‘reign’ was put in by my iPhone, so that puts the mockers on the spell checkers you mods keep banging on about :tongue2: :lol:
I know you think you understood what I said, but I'm not sure you realise that what I said is not what I meant.

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Re: IMPORTANT - Future of UKAR

Post by TonyB »

Could spelling and grammatical mistakes be down to posters not proof reading before the post button is pressed? Or even seeing the mistake of "predictive text" on mobiles or tablets but not correcting it? I´m pretty sure that if posters read what they have written before posting, then a lot of problems would simply not occur.

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Wissam24
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Re: IMPORTANT - Future of UKAR

Post by Wissam24 »

RRconway wrote:
Wissam24 wrote:
RRconway wrote:
The Baron wrote:
Tmyers123 wrote:
Paul_Reflex wrote:Conversely, if UKAR doesn't maintain a good standard of English and slips into the social media style of language use there will be nothing to differentiate it from all of the Facebook groups. In my opinion, having a good standard of English use on the forum is a good thing, not least because it helps the discussion to be accessible to an international audience.


There’s a difference between a post being unreadable and a full stop being missing at the end of the post. The problem is pointlessly picking out punctuation and grammar errors to belittle someone when the post is in fact completely understandable. :facepalm:

If people would just refrain from needlessly pointing out the smallest of errors, and instead only make a point out of it when the post is genuinely difficult to read, this wouldn’t be a problem.


How are people supposed to learn and improve if nobody is allowed to point out their errors? There should be no issues if errors are highlighted in a mature, constructive and polite way. Equally people need to be adult enough to accept what's been said without resorting to the age old and frankly boring "Grammar Nazi" comments.
UKAR needs to continue to be a bastion of proper English language.


Spectacularly missing the point there by assuming that people want their errors corrected.

If someone wants their written English proof-read then they can go to somewhere that offers that service.

This is precisely the sort of attitude that puts people off of UKAR.
Just because you can see errors in someone’s grammar or spelling does not mean you have free reign to correct them.


*free rein


As I’ve already said Sam, I don’t have problem with poor spelling and mistakes, therefore your attempt at an ironic correction is completely moot.
If you’re that bothered about correcting spelling and grammar in posts, I would look through your last one in this thread.
For the record 1, I embrace your mistakes and genuinely don’t mind them.
For the record 2, The ‘reign’ was put in by my iPhone, so that puts the mockers on the spell checkers you mods keep banging on about :tongue2: :lol:


Very interested in your corrections of my post
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RRconway
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Re: IMPORTANT - Future of UKAR

Post by RRconway »

Wissam24 wrote:
RRconway wrote:
Wissam24 wrote:
RRconway wrote:
The Baron wrote:
Tmyers123 wrote:
Paul_Reflex wrote:Conversely, if UKAR doesn't maintain a good standard of English and slips into the social media style of language use there will be nothing to differentiate it from all of the Facebook groups. In my opinion, having a good standard of English use on the forum is a good thing, not least because it helps the discussion to be accessible to an international audience.


There’s a difference between a post being unreadable and a full stop being missing at the end of the post. The problem is pointlessly picking out punctuation and grammar errors to belittle someone when the post is in fact completely understandable. :facepalm:

If people would just refrain from needlessly pointing out the smallest of errors, and instead only make a point out of it when the post is genuinely difficult to read, this wouldn’t be a problem.


How are people supposed to learn and improve if nobody is allowed to point out their errors? There should be no issues if errors are highlighted in a mature, constructive and polite way. Equally people need to be adult enough to accept what's been said without resorting to the age old and frankly boring "Grammar Nazi" comments.
UKAR needs to continue to be a bastion of proper English language.


Spectacularly missing the point there by assuming that people want their errors corrected.

If someone wants their written English proof-read then they can go to somewhere that offers that service.

This is precisely the sort of attitude that puts people off of UKAR.
Just because you can see errors in someone’s grammar or spelling does not mean you have free reign to correct them.


*free rein


As I’ve already said Sam, I don’t have problem with poor spelling and mistakes, therefore your attempt at an ironic correction is completely moot.
If you’re that bothered about correcting spelling and grammar in posts, I would look through your last one in this thread.
For the record 1, I embrace your mistakes and genuinely don’t mind them.
For the record 2, The ‘reign’ was put in by my iPhone, so that puts the mockers on the spell checkers you mods keep banging on about :tongue2: :lol:


Very interested in your corrections of my post


As I've already said Sam, I'm not bovvered.
If, as a moderator you consider it important, then you can correct the errors, if you're interested.

Life is far too short to get upset over spelling and grammer mistakes in a forum post.
People come here for chat about aviation, nothing more, nothing less, and before you say anything, most people can see past the errors and cope just fine.
I know you think you understood what I said, but I'm not sure you realise that what I said is not what I meant.

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Wissam24
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Re: IMPORTANT - Future of UKAR

Post by Wissam24 »

Yeah, didn't think you would
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Tmyers123
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Re: IMPORTANT - Future of UKAR

Post by Tmyers123 »

It’s a good thing Caper isn’t here, he’d be appalled at the amount of quotes in those posts. :grin:

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RRconway
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Re: IMPORTANT - Future of UKAR

Post by RRconway »

Wissam24 wrote:Yeah, didn't think you would

For the record, once more, I do not care, but I will not stand by while people are harrased by keyboard grammer and spelling warriors when all they are doing is trying to partake in the hobby they enjoy.
I have watched members on here who have declared their difficulty with english, still be told why there is no excuse for it, spellchecker this, dictionary that and now no longer participate here.
It is bullying, plain and simple.

Ok, you want me to comment on your post. Your spelling is good, your grammer and construction is not.
It does not scan well and is not properly set out, which makes it difficult to read. (Quick edit)

While (or whilst), (the difference is minimal, but ‘while’ is considered the modern version of ‘whilst’ and tends to be the American use) disruptive (so you admit they are disruptive) corrections don't necessarily help people, there is a reason that we enforce high English standards (standards of English) ,(.It is) the same reason (that) you would make sure your work emails, (a covering letter to clients or indeed why we ensure our articles), are well written.
(New paragraph) If you have low standards, and the forum becomes sloppy and a mess, it gives (out – not needed) a (pretty, attractive?) (weak - poor) impression of the forum which suggests uninformed discussion and a lack of care (taken – not needed) over what's being written.
(New paragraph) (To - For) people coming to the forum, the worse the English (is) the less likely they are to take it seriously. Conversely, clear, correct English demonstrates an attention to detail, a preparedness and a commitment to effort to keep a high standard, which reflects on the discussion and the members.
(New paragraph)As has been quoted elsewhere, (if you get lower- if you get lower what?, presumably you mean ‘if you allow lower standards’) (you don't become – then you become no) better than the godawful, meaningless Facebook groups that add nothing to the world, which UKAR is most certainly better than.

That is why we insist on clear, legible English and won't tolerate the idea that we (will) let (our) standards slip, no matter how desperate people (apparently are – are apparently), to be wrong about the language they write and speak in.

I will not be drawn any further Sam, if you feel the need to regurgitate the same tired arguments that have been the defence of the other spelling and grammar pickers then carry on.
If you and the other mods want to attract UKARers who will be willing to pay a subscription, then it needs to be a friendly place, and this is not the way to do it.

I'm off to watch the bake-off.
I know you think you understood what I said, but I'm not sure you realise that what I said is not what I meant.

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