The UKAR politics thread

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Tomahawk
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by Tomahawk »

IATthenRIAT wrote:
Sat 24 Oct 2020, 10:53 pm
Shame politics can't be modernised to create an equal and fair system - where both of the largest sides have to have the same number of members, all the other smaller sides could vote independently but also have an Impartial panel who decide the outcome of new bills etc, to stop biased decision making.
They do say the best system of government for the people is actually a benevolent dictatorship. Letting the vast majority of the population actually vote for something (or somebody) never works out well....

Teaboy
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by Teaboy »

IATthenRIAT wrote:
Sat 24 Oct 2020, 10:28 pm
Basically the government have failed just about everything and done the country absolutly no good whatsoever, each week move forward there seems to be another failure and after failure - it feels like this is the worst term of government we have Ever had in this country.
Entirely predictable as well. If there had not of been a pandemic, the only difference would be the death toll. There would have been just as many failures and scandals.

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iainpeden
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by iainpeden »

IATthenRIAT wrote:
Sat 24 Oct 2020, 10:53 pm
Shame politics can't be modernised to create an equal and fair system - where both of the largest sides have to have the same number of members, all the other smaller sides could vote independently but also have an Impartial panel who decide the outcome of new bills etc, to stop biased decision making.
Close to proportional representation then, which I understand but would mean we would end up like Belgium; no government for months and an even worse death toll than the UK.
(Mark Twain: There are lies, there are damn lies and then there are statistics)

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speedbird2639
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by speedbird2639 »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54730425

Presumably 'Bobby Marley' will be along in a moment to point out this is all a conspiracy against 'Magic Grandpa'.

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Tommy
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by Tommy »

The correct decision.

But take a moment though, to consider how absolutely mad the scenes are for a man to (very correctly, imo) to be suspended from Labour who, only 12 months ago, was gunning to be Prime Minister.

Unbelievable stuff.

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ted633
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by ted633 »

The other question is, what would have happened if he was Prime Minister!

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Spiny Norman
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by Spiny Norman »

Old times might remember how Neil Kinnock gained plaudits and set the way for (New) Labour to be elected by taking on Militant. By taking on the extreme wing of the Labour party in this way, Starmer is showing exactly the type of leadership that is required for a national, encompassing leader.

IATthenRIAT
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by IATthenRIAT »

speedbird2639 wrote:
Thu 29 Oct 2020, 1:18 pm
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54730425

Presumably 'Bobby Marley' will be along in a moment to point out this is all a conspiracy against 'Magic Grandpa'.
Bob Marley! isn't he dead? interesting name?

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starbuck
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by starbuck »

Spiny Norman wrote:
Thu 29 Oct 2020, 3:53 pm
Old times might remember how Neil Kinnock gained plaudits and set the way for (New) Labour to be elected by taking on Militant. By taking on the extreme wing of the Labour party in this way, Starmer is showing exactly the type of leadership that is required for a national, encompassing leader.
That will be the same Kier Starmer who 10 months ago was championing the same Jeremy Corbyn to be our next Prime Minister?

Starmer didn't instigate the EHRC investigation, he just happens to now be leader as the findings are published. He is saying the right things now but he could have said them a long time ago
Last edited by starbuck on Thu 29 Oct 2020, 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tommy
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by Tommy »

Yep

vandal
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by vandal »

IATthenRIAT wrote:
Thu 29 Oct 2020, 5:05 pm
speedbird2639 wrote:
Thu 29 Oct 2020, 1:18 pm
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54730425

Presumably 'Bobby Marley' will be along in a moment to point out this is all a conspiracy against 'Magic Grandpa'.
Bob Marley! isn't he dead? interesting name?
Bob Marley - Legendary Reggae Musician

'Bobby Marley' - Username of a forum member.

🙂

IATthenRIAT
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by IATthenRIAT »

vandal wrote:
Thu 29 Oct 2020, 6:01 pm
IATthenRIAT wrote:
Thu 29 Oct 2020, 5:05 pm
speedbird2639 wrote:
Thu 29 Oct 2020, 1:18 pm
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54730425

Presumably 'Bobby Marley' will be along in a moment to point out this is all a conspiracy against 'Magic Grandpa'.
Bob Marley! isn't he dead? interesting name?
Bob Marley - Legendary Reggae Musician

'Bobby Marley' - Username of a forum member.

🙂

I see, thanks.

Ken Shabby
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by Ken Shabby »

starbuck wrote:
Thu 29 Oct 2020, 5:18 pm
Spiny Norman wrote:
Thu 29 Oct 2020, 3:53 pm
Old times might remember how Neil Kinnock gained plaudits and set the way for (New) Labour to be elected by taking on Militant. By taking on the extreme wing of the Labour party in this way, Starmer is showing exactly the type of leadership that is required for a national, encompassing leader.
That will be the same Kier Starmer who 10 months ago was championing the same Jeremy Corbyn to be our next Prime Minister?

Starmer didn't instigate the EHRC investigation, he just happens to now be leader as the findings are published. He is saying the right things now but he could have said them a long time ago
My Grandad had an old saying something along the lines of: “Always respect a man who’s willing to change his mind, but be wary of one who changes it very quickly”.
Ken

IATthenRIAT
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by IATthenRIAT »

My late farther used to say - "Never trust Right Wing Politics".

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Spiny Norman
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by Spiny Norman »

starbuck wrote:
Thu 29 Oct 2020, 5:18 pm
Spiny Norman wrote:
Thu 29 Oct 2020, 3:53 pm
Old times might remember how Neil Kinnock gained plaudits and set the way for (New) Labour to be elected by taking on Militant. By taking on the extreme wing of the Labour party in this way, Starmer is showing exactly the type of leadership that is required for a national, encompassing leader.
That will be the same Kier Starmer who 10 months ago was championing the same Jeremy Corbyn to be our next Prime Minister?

Starmer didn't instigate the EHRC investigation, he just happens to now be leader as the findings are published. He is saying the right things now but he could have said them a long time ago
As a QC maybe he was waiting on the evidence. Those devilish facts that seem so out of favour these days.

As for people changing their minds, the best recent example is our current Prime Minister, who wrote two different paper articles: one on supporting Brexit, the other advocating against it. Tossed a coin in the air (metaphorically I hope) before deciding which one to pursue.

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Tommy
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by Tommy »

starbuck wrote:
Thu 29 Oct 2020, 5:18 pm
Spiny Norman wrote:
Thu 29 Oct 2020, 3:53 pm
Old times might remember how Neil Kinnock gained plaudits and set the way for (New) Labour to be elected by taking on Militant. By taking on the extreme wing of the Labour party in this way, Starmer is showing exactly the type of leadership that is required for a national, encompassing leader.
That will be the same Kier Starmer who 10 months ago was championing the same Jeremy Corbyn to be our next Prime Minister?

Starmer didn't instigate the EHRC investigation, he just happens to now be leader as the findings are published. He is saying the right things now but he could have said them a long time ago
Loathe as I am to suggest this, had Starmer not “said the right things now”, you would also be criticising him for not doing so. Starmer has some tough questions to deal with now, ones that I want to see him grapple with. He’s got a tough few days ahead, and I want to see him face them.

However, those tough questions notwithstanding, on a base level, Starmer has always spoken out about his concerns about into anti-semitism within the party, and he’s now apologised on behalf of the party and is doing the right thing in taking the report seriously.

Corbyn, on the other hand, still insists on playing the victim. He forced his own suspension.

And, whilst it’s a side-issue, I’m sure that there is probably actually a lot of benefit for Labour in the front pages this morning. The big-hit story of Corbyn being suspended will stick in the back of a lot of minds of traditional Labour supporters who voted for Johnson because Corbyn was just too much of a melt.

Not you, S, but the Tory MPs, CCHQ, and Tory commentators would do well to temper their pretty thinly-disguised glee expressed yesterday and this morning. At least Labour has had this report into the issue, its leader has taken the right stance, and the previous leader has been suspended for being an arse yesterday.

The Tories have long-promised a similar review into the disgusting and rife Islamophobia and downright racism within its party ranks, and as yet has not commissioned one. I’m quite confident in saying that the results of that, if it ever is commissioned, will be some grim reading, and Johnson is not competent nor intelligent nor compassionate enough as a leader to deal with it properly (which is probably why, despite his pledge, he hasn’t commissioned it).

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rockfordstone
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by rockfordstone »

speedbird2639 wrote:
Thu 29 Oct 2020, 1:18 pm
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54730425

Presumably 'Bobby Marley' will be along in a moment to point out this is all a conspiracy against 'Magic Grandpa'.
i forgot about him, that was an interesting few weeks

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pbeardmore
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by pbeardmore »

In the medium term, it's a "win/win" for Starmer. He has been given the independent evidence re what happened and Corbyn has shot himslef in the foot re not apologising. So KS gets to show his strength within the party and, at the same time, distance himse lf from the Left of the Party (Corbyn supporters). It also provides a chance for the centre of the party to draw a line under the era and move on. He was dealt a tricky hand and played it very well.
“The best computer is a man, and it’s the only one that can be mass-produced by unskilled labour.”

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starbuck
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by starbuck »

pbeardmore wrote:
Fri 30 Oct 2020, 10:30 am
In the medium term, it's a "win/win" for Starmer. He has been given the independent evidence re what happened and Corbyn has shot himslef in the foot re not apologising. So KS gets to show his strength within the party and, at the same time, distance himse lf from the Left of the Party (Corbyn supporters). It also provides a chance for the centre of the party to draw a line under the era and move on. He was dealt a tricky hand and played it very well.
I'm sorry PB but I cannot disagree more with your last sentence. Corbyn's behaviour yesterday gave Starmer an absolute tap-in. The tricky hand would have been if Corbyn had have come out with some contrition and said something along the lines of "The entire senior Labour leadership let down our jewish colleagues" how would Starmer have looked then?

I don't accept that Starmer was waiting for the evidence from the EHRC investigation. From what I have been able to read the EHRC did not provide much more in the way of evidence of anti-semitism, more in the failings of the organisation of the party in how to recognise and deal with it.

Starmer had to have been well aware of the evidence, maybe not all but still plenty. Other MP's (perhaps less ambitious?) such as Margaret Hodge and John Mann were shouting it from the roof tops. Threats of violence by Labour party members were being made against Luciana Berger and the party chose not to tell her about them for 6 months. He would have known this.

Think how different Starmers words yesterday would have sounded coming from Jess Phillips or Andy Burnham.

I actually quite like Starmer, he has handled himself very well so far in not allowing himself to fall for the headline grabbing tittle tattle at PMQ's despite BJ's baiting. I just don't like his party very much at the moment and unfortunately for me, he is still tainted by the fact that he was in the inner workings of it during these very dark hours.

parsley
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by parsley »

Spiny Norman wrote:
Fri 30 Oct 2020, 7:58 am
starbuck wrote:
Thu 29 Oct 2020, 5:18 pm
Spiny Norman wrote:
Thu 29 Oct 2020, 3:53 pm
Old times might remember how Neil Kinnock gained plaudits and set the way for (New) Labour to be elected by taking on Militant. By taking on the extreme wing of the Labour party in this way, Starmer is showing exactly the type of leadership that is required for a national, encompassing leader.
That will be the same Kier Starmer who 10 months ago was championing the same Jeremy Corbyn to be our next Prime Minister?

Starmer didn't instigate the EHRC investigation, he just happens to now be leader as the findings are published. He is saying the right things now but he could have said them a long time ago
As a QC maybe he was waiting on the evidence. Those devilish facts that seem so out of favour these days.

As for people changing their minds, the best recent example is our current Prime Minister, who wrote two different paper articles: one on supporting Brexit, the other advocating against it. Tossed a coin in the air (metaphorically I hope) before deciding which one to pursue.

There is the Michael Hesseltine quote about Johnson -

"- a man who waits to see the way the crowd is running and then dashes in front and says, ‘Follow me’.”

verreli
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by verreli »

Reform UK, a new political party to be created. Farage is back.

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Spiny Norman
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by Spiny Norman »

verreli wrote:
Mon 02 Nov 2020, 8:04 am
Reform UK, a new political party to be created. Farage is back.
So do all those who voted for the Brexit Party, but are for lockdowns and surviving a pandemic, do they get their £100 a month "Brexit Club" subscriptions back?

He should be quietly told that the country doesn't need idiots promoting non-compliance with public health measures. The man's a balloon.

vandal
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by vandal »

Spiny Norman wrote:
Mon 02 Nov 2020, 9:51 am
verreli wrote:
Mon 02 Nov 2020, 8:04 am
Reform UK, a new political party to be created. Farage is back.
So do all those who voted for the Brexit Party, but are for lockdowns and surviving a pandemic, do they get their £100 a month "Brexit Club" subscriptions back?

He should be quietly told that the country doesn't need idiots promoting non-compliance with public health measures. The man's a balloon.
Thought he was in the USA.

Pretty sure he was wheeled out at a Trump rally a couple of days ago?
Last edited by vandal on Mon 02 Nov 2020, 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

verreli
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by verreli »

I can imagine Boris spluttering over his cornflake this morning when he got the news. When such a unifying figure such as Farage is back on the political scene, the establishment gets nervous.

...and yes, he was praising Trump in the US a few days ago.

RAF4EVER
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by RAF4EVER »

He is an MEP, and therefore rules,lockdown and Quarantine do not apply to them,just ask DC. :smiley: :smiley:

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