The UKAR politics thread

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CJS
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by CJS »

ED also said this: "People here felt ignored and taken for granted, and we listened. Sarah Green is going to take these concerns to Parliament and hold this appalling Tory government to account."

So in terms of the LD/Con alliance of recent times, I think it's safe to say they are doing whatever they can do distance themselves from that now.
With just the slightest bit of finesse, I might have made a little less mess.

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Paulish
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by Paulish »

Tommy wrote:
Fri 18 Jun 2021, 12:58 pm
Christ look at the cringe of this. Performative cretinous knobs.



There is such a thing as winning with class and dignity and being magnanimous. This is like play school. Fisher Price hammer and everything.
I get what you’re saying, but I can’t blame them really, this is a stunning turnaround by any standards. In an era of visual messaging such as with the Ed Milliband tombstone or even their own “bo££Ocks to Brexit” campaign this is all pretty harmless.

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Tommy
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by Tommy »

Perhaps you’re right, but if it were Johnson (as it often is) I’d be equally critical as I often am.

End of the day, blue, red, orange - it’s all performative bolycs. And I hate it. It’s cringe, stupid, crass, and who but those there are actually sat at home like YES LADS YOU HIT THAT WALL WITH A SMALL ORANGE HAMMER!

Perhaps it’s just me.

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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by MiG_Eater »

I LOVE this... Who needs another series of The Thick of It when you have true art such as this.

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CJS
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by CJS »

Tommy wrote:
Fri 18 Jun 2021, 1:49 pm
Perhaps you’re right, but if it were Johnson (as it often is) I’d be equally critical as I often am.

End of the day, blue, red, orange - it’s all performative bolycs. And I hate it. It’s cringe, stupid, crass, and who but those there are actually sat at home like YES LADS YOU HIT THAT WALL WITH A SMALL ORANGE HAMMER!

Perhaps it’s just me.
:joy: :rofl: would it have been ok if the hammer had been massive?

Image
With just the slightest bit of finesse, I might have made a little less mess.

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starbuck
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by starbuck »

I want to know how they got that wall up so quick. I'm waiting to have some work done on the house and my builder keeps telling me he can't get the materials.

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Spiny Norman
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by Spiny Norman »

Crimea. Bit of sabre rattling?

‘What are the odds?’ Reactions as BBC and Mail aboard Navy ship that was ‘attacked’ by Russia
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/ ... ia-277969/

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DerekF
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by DerekF »

If a Russian ship sailed close to UK territorial waters we would claim it was provocation. How is this different? They knew it was sensitive area and according to the BBC news last night, deliberately chose a path in a disputed area. An order that came from the government. If that isn't provocation, I don't know what is. Poke sticks at a hornets nest and then blame the hornets?
What's the Royal Navy doing in Black Sea anyway?

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iainpeden
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by iainpeden »

DerekF wrote:
Thu 24 Jun 2021, 9:11 am
If a Russian ship sailed close to UK territorial waters we would claim it was provocation.
A while ago a Russian naval task force sailed through the English Channel and was shadowed all the way. Probably happened at least once a week during the Cold War.

Nice film of that Fencer.
(Mark Twain: There are lies, there are damn lies and then there are statistics)

disgruntled
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by disgruntled »

DerekF wrote:
Thu 24 Jun 2021, 9:11 am
What's the Royal Navy doing in Black Sea anyway?
Umm it’s job?!
Exercising the right of free passage?
Protecting the sea lanes to ensure the right of free passage?
Showing support to an ally against aggression from a foreign power?

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Tommy
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by Tommy »



One wonders whether Hancock’s clock is ticking towards midnight.

Edit - difficult thing for Johnson, now. Hancock should be sacked (lord knows, it’s about bloody time), but Johnson cannot sack Hancock without resigning himself (in a moral world) for exactly the same behaviour.

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DerekF
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by DerekF »

disgruntled wrote:
Fri 25 Jun 2021, 6:47 am
DerekF wrote:
Thu 24 Jun 2021, 9:11 am
What's the Royal Navy doing in Black Sea anyway?
Umm it’s job?!
Exercising the right of free passage?
Protecting the sea lanes to ensure the right of free passage?
Showing support to an ally against aggression from a foreign power?
Provoking the Russians?
Confirming the Russian fear that NATO is aggressive towards them?
Risking a shooting war to prove a point?
Ukraine an ally? Since when?

disgruntled
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by disgruntled »

DerekF wrote:
Fri 25 Jun 2021, 12:44 pm
disgruntled wrote:
Fri 25 Jun 2021, 6:47 am
DerekF wrote:
Thu 24 Jun 2021, 9:11 am
What's the Royal Navy doing in Black Sea anyway?
Umm it’s job?!
Exercising the right of free passage?
Protecting the sea lanes to ensure the right of free passage?
Showing support to an ally against aggression from a foreign power?
Provoking the Russians?
Confirming the Russian fear that NATO is aggressive towards them?
Risking a shooting war to prove a point?
Ukraine an ally? Since when?
Provoking Russians by going about their lawful passage on the High Seas as per the High Seas Convention signed in 1958 or the UNCLOS signed in 1982?

Russian fear of aggression? This the state that sends assassins to the streets of Wiltshire!

Shooting war?? You do realise how professional our Navy is don’t you?! How they adhere strictly to the laws of warfare??

Ukraine has been an ally for several years now (UK was the first EU country to recognise Ukraine after it left the Soviet Union in 1991) More info available here https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/re ... s/sn07135/
Or did you miss that blue cammo fighter at Fairford?!!

I realise many on here think that the sole purpose of the military is to provide them with aircraft to take photos of at airshows - but seriously please try to understand the wider function and professionalism of our armed forces and come to that international law

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DerekF
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by DerekF »

The truth of it is that the Navy did not expect a Rusian reaction so quickly. The Navy's uneccessary path through disputed waters was a publicity point-proving exercise that backfired, putting our servicemen at risk.
Russia has always been wary of NATO's expansion and percieved aggression after what happened to an "ally" in 1941. Rightly or wrongly that's what they think and this incident has played right into the Kremlin's hands. It was such a stupid thing to do that I suspect Raab's hand in this.

disgruntled
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by disgruntled »

Truth?? Based on what knowledge? Unless of course you work within UK Strat Com or the Maritime Operations Centre I very much doubt that you can state that as being “the truth”. Obviously if you do work there my apologies... Sir

cg_341
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by cg_341 »

Why are you all acting as if this is the first time this has happened to a British warship in the Black Sea?

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DerekF
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by DerekF »


disgruntled
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by disgruntled »

Read the article. The surprise is at how quickly the Russians moved to get the story out to the press. It was not the ship’s company who was surprised by the Russian military actions.

And the poster above is quite right this is nothing new. And again, when a Russian Naval vessel transits close to our territorial waters we react similarly - albeit in a far less confrontational and far more measured way. I’m merely engaging because of the assertion that this is big bad bully boy Boris harassing the poor, timid, peace loving, non aggressive Russian state for the sake of a few votes at a by election.

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DerekF
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by DerekF »

No, it's stupid Boris, poking sticks at a hornet's nest for a few votes and a photo opportunity. If you're happy for our forces to be used in this way then fair enough.

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boff180
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by boff180 »

DerekF wrote:
Fri 25 Jun 2021, 1:44 pm
The truth of it is that the Navy did not expect a Rusian reaction so quickly. The Navy's uneccessary path through disputed waters was a publicity point-proving exercise that backfired, putting our servicemen at risk.
A strong reaction was clearly the intention, I highly doubt they saw this quick reaction as unexpected. This was a clearly planned operation from the start - there just so happened (yeah right) to be an RC-135 airborne watching the entire event unfold collecting data on Russian movements, tactics, forward positions, radar.etc.etc.

In short, the Russians fell for an intelligence gathering op hook line and sinker.

That said, if this assessment is to be believed, the Defender did not break the law entering Russian waters because of how it behaved....
https://theconversation.com/hms-defende ... ays-163389

Andy

vandal
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

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Teaboy
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by Teaboy »

so much for the matter being closed?

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toom317
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by toom317 »

GFR!
"Nice pics mate" comments only! No criticism please.

Equipment: Camera, Lens, Goretex Y fronts.

vandal
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by vandal »

Teaboy wrote:
Sat 26 Jun 2021, 6:50 pm
so much for the matter being closed?

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Tommy
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by Tommy »

Tommy wrote:
Fri 25 Jun 2021, 7:41 am
Edit - difficult thing for Johnson, now. Hancock should be sacked (lord knows, it’s about bloody time), but Johnson cannot sack Hancock without resigning himself (in a moral world) for exactly the same behaviour.
I will bet quite a lot on Hancock being forced internally to “resign” rather than Johnson sack him yesterday for precisely this reason.

Still damaging for Johnson, because it makes him further look indecisive and a powerless hostage to morality and life events.

But presumably No10 were happier with that spin, than the “hypocrisy” spin.

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