The UKAR politics thread

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toom317
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Re: The UKAR politics thread

Post by toom317 »

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by pbeardmore »

"I couldn't care a monkey's about flaws in the Tory Government's arguments,"

“I'll always be voting Conservative.”
“The best computer is a man, and it’s the only one that can be mass-produced by unskilled labour.”

Zoom
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Zoom »

Finningley Boy wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020, 8:42 pm
What is it they say about a week being a long time in politics, but for all that ukarians still think that change and a Brave new World are just around the corner, no its not. It is so ignorant to say this is the worst government we've ever had, they're all the worst governments we've ever had, they all get kicked out in the end don't they. And if the tories are all that bad, how come they've spent the Lion's share of time with one their leaders in No. 10? Tony Blair is the only Labour PM to survive more than one term as PM. And he was awful!

FB
Because the Tories generally have held power more

Doesn't make them right just means a larger minority of voters have voted for them at General Elections under FPTP.

If Tony Blair was awful why did he win 3 GE's?
Last edited by Zoom on Mon 25 May 2020, 9:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

vandal
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by vandal »

I'll be better placed on where to put the X after I've seen the report on alleged Soviet interference in UK politics.

The one they were going to publish after the last election.

FGR2
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by FGR2 »

Zoom wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020, 8:56 pm
Finningley Boy wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020, 8:42 pm
What is it they say about a week being a long time in politics, but for all that ukarians still think that change and a Brave new World are just around the corner, no its not. It is so ignorant to say this is the worst government we've ever had, they're all the worst governments we've ever had, they all get kicked out in the end don't they. And if the tories are all that bad, how come they've spent the Lion's share of time with one their leaders in No. 10? Tony Blair is the only Labour PM to survive more than one term as PM. And he was awful!

FB
Because the Tories generally have held power more

Doesn't make them right just means a larger minority of voters have voted for them at General Elections under FPTP.

If Tony Blair was awful why did he win 3 GE's?
Indeed for whatever you say about him, Blair was a good speaker.

Don’t forget it was only a Conservative LibDem coalition that saw them in for a term. Teresa May had a minority government and gambled it, (and lost seats) so had to go into a Confidence and Supply with the DUP.

Boris won the last election only due to lent northern votes to “Get BREXT Done.” This against a backdrop of a hard left unelectable Corbyn.

Once BREXIT is done these votes could very well swing back to Labour, especially with a major recession, unemployment looming and a more centre left Starmer dissecting everything the government does.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by pbeardmore »

"The next Tory leader could be a friggin walnut" I'll take that right now.
“The best computer is a man, and it’s the only one that can be mass-produced by unskilled labour.”

IATthenRIAT
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by IATthenRIAT »

The Tories can go and die in hell bunch of lower holes all of them, hope they go and never see the light of day again - get your UB40 cards thats all they desereve.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Finningley Boy »

IATthenRIAT wrote:
Tue 26 May 2020, 3:11 am
The Tories can go and die in hell bunch of lower holes all of them, hope they go and never see the light of day again - get your UB40 cards thats all they desereve.
I'm sure I've asked this before, who then? who?

FB
I have danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings!

vandal
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by vandal »

Finningley Boy wrote:
Tue 26 May 2020, 4:38 am


I'm sure I've asked this before, who then? who?

FB
Do you still believe this is the best we've got?

A party that unlawfully suspended Parliament
A PM who lied to the Queen
A ditch that is still empty
A Cabinet Minister who wrote that we should not visit our parents who live rurally during lockdown & instead rely on their neighbours to do so instead, then goes and does that very thing
A Health Minister who, in the middle of a Pandemic found the time to retweet a doctored video of the leader of the opposition
A PM who backs his chief adviser who (thus far)
Returned to work hours after being called home to his Covid 19 positive wife when the advice they were pedalling was to immediately self isolate at your own home - thus risking potential spread of said virus to the workplace
Drove 250+ miles with Covid positive wife & child in the car - during lockdown
Visited a picturesque town 30 miles from his parents house claiming the drive was an eye test - during lockdown & coincidentally, on his wife's birthday, with his wife & child in the car
A chief advisor who done the above & admitted to it on tv
A chief advisor who refused to apologise for his actions

You seriously think a party that has conducted itself in this manner is the best the UK political scene has to offer?

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by RAF4EVER »

vandal wrote:
Tue 26 May 2020, 6:01 am
Finningley Boy wrote:
Tue 26 May 2020, 4:38 am


I'm sure I've asked this before, who then? who?

FB
Do you still believe this is the best we've got?

A party that unlawfully suspended Parliament
A PM who lied to the Queen
A ditch that is still empty
A Cabinet Minister who wrote that we should not visit our parents who live rurally during lockdown & instead rely on their neighbours to do so instead, then goes and does that very thing
A Health Minister who, in the middle of a Pandemic found the time to retweet a doctored video of the leader of the opposition
A PM who backs his chief adviser who (thus far)
Returned to work hours after being called home to his Covid 19 positive wife when the advice they were pedalling was to immediately self isolate at your own home - thus risking potential spread of said virus to the workplace
Drove 250+ miles with Covid positive wife & child in the car - during lockdown
Visited a picturesque town 30 miles from his parents house claiming the drive was an eye test - during lockdown & coincidentally, on his wife's birthday, with his wife & child in the car
A chief advisor who done the above & admitted to it on tv
A chief advisor who refused to apologise for his actions

You seriously think a party that has conducted itself in this manner is the best the UK political scene has to offer?
You get what you vote for,I do not vote in General Elections.

vandal
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by vandal »

Forgot to mention the utter hypocrisy of Matt Hancock.

Wanted Police involvement regarding Professor Neil Ferguson & Dr Calderwood for their lockdown violations, but shows support for Dominic Cummings.

Finningley Boy
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Finningley Boy »

vandal wrote:
Tue 26 May 2020, 6:01 am
Finningley Boy wrote:
Tue 26 May 2020, 4:38 am


I'm sure I've asked this before, who then? who?

FB
Do you still believe this is the best we've got?

A party that unlawfully suspended Parliament
A PM who lied to the Queen
A ditch that is still empty
A Cabinet Minister who wrote that we should not visit our parents who live rurally during lockdown & instead rely on their neighbours to do so instead, then goes and does that very thing
A Health Minister who, in the middle of a Pandemic found the time to retweet a doctored video of the leader of the opposition
A PM who backs his chief adviser who (thus far)
Returned to work hours after being called home to his Covid 19 positive wife when the advice they were pedalling was to immediately self isolate at your own home - thus risking potential spread of said virus to the workplace
Drove 250+ miles with Covid positive wife & child in the car - during lockdown
Visited a picturesque town 30 miles from his parents house claiming the drive was an eye test - during lockdown & coincidentally, on his wife's birthday, with his wife & child in the car
A chief advisor who done the above & admitted to it on tv
A chief advisor who refused to apologise for his actions

You seriously think a party that has conducted itself in this manner is the best the UK political scene has to offer?
This is exactly the evasive answer I expected, now, answer my original question instead of reeling off a list of shouty often irrelevant points and tell me who should be Prime Minister, who should make up the cabinet. As you find it impossible to think of anyone a smidgling better, then yes, I'll ignore your student union debate style shallow anti-right rant and say yes, they are the best.

You haven't got a clue who could do any better with the dreadful situation we're in. Yet you've got a full house to pick and choose from.


FB :face_with_monocle:
I have danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings!

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Tommy
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Tommy »

It’s not the best line you’ve got to keep repeating though, FB, is it?

“He’s the best we’ve got”.

Even if that were true, which I don’t think it is, it speaks rather large volumes about how vacuous and rotten your beloved political party is right now that not only is Johnson of all people the best you have, again I don’t think he is, but that your entire party, one of the main ones in British politics, has been so corrupted and suppressed and radicalised that to you, there’s literally not even remotely anyone else in the wings.

Which I presume is why you feel obliged to defend the indefensible, and defend every single thing the party does. I’m still chuckling that you thought Cummings gave a “reasonable explanation” last night.

“Who else, then?” Is not nearly the clever rebuttal that you think it is.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by vandal »

Finningley Boy wrote:
Tue 26 May 2020, 8:24 am
vandal wrote:
Tue 26 May 2020, 6:01 am
Finningley Boy wrote:
Tue 26 May 2020, 4:38 am


I'm sure I've asked this before, who then? who?

FB
Do you still believe this is the best we've got?

A party that unlawfully suspended Parliament
A PM who lied to the Queen
A ditch that is still empty
A Cabinet Minister who wrote that we should not visit our parents who live rurally during lockdown & instead rely on their neighbours to do so instead, then goes and does that very thing
A Health Minister who, in the middle of a Pandemic found the time to retweet a doctored video of the leader of the opposition
A PM who backs his chief adviser who (thus far)
Returned to work hours after being called home to his Covid 19 positive wife when the advice they were pedalling was to immediately self isolate at your own home - thus risking potential spread of said virus to the workplace
Drove 250+ miles with Covid positive wife & child in the car - during lockdown
Visited a picturesque town 30 miles from his parents house claiming the drive was an eye test - during lockdown & coincidentally, on his wife's birthday, with his wife & child in the car
A chief advisor who done the above & admitted to it on tv
A chief advisor who refused to apologise for his actions

You seriously think a party that has conducted itself in this manner is the best the UK political scene has to offer?
This is exactly the evasive answer I expected, now, answer my original question instead of reeling off a list of shouty often irrelevant points and tell me who should be Prime Minister, who should make up the cabinet. As you find it impossible to think of anyone a smidgling better, then yes, I'll ignore your student union debate style shallow anti-right rant and say yes, they are the best.

You haven't got a clue who could do any better with the dreadful situation we're in. Yet you've got a full house to pick and choose from.


FB :face_with_monocle:
Shouty, often irrelevant points?
It's all fact.

Student union debate anti-right rant?
I see it as criticism of their behaviour

How is asking a question, as I have, the evasive answer you expected?

Teaboy
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Teaboy »

Time to cede sovereignty to Scotland. But in case that isn't possible here's a shortlist of people better placed to govern the UK right now:

Theresa May
Boris Johnsons latest child
Maggies Ghost
Neville Chamberlain
Orville
That bloke I saw vomiting kebab outside spoons in Barnsley last year
The captain of the Belgrano
Rory Stewart

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CJS
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by CJS »

FB, you want a list?

Here's a list:

Kier Starmer
Sajid Javid
Harriet Harman
Ed Davey
Emily Thornberry
Hilary Benn
Theresa May
Yvette Cooper
Rishi Sunak
Andrea Leadsom (yes, I even think she'd be better...)

One other, direct, question: Do you honestly believe Cummings when he says he drove 60 miles to test his eyesight? I'm asking, because it will give some idea as to whether you are blinded to anything the Tories may do. If you believe what he said yesterday, I mean really you believe it, then I think any replies to your posts are pointless in the future.

:face_with_monocle: as you would say...

Edit - On the point of his drive from London to Durham: I think I'd have done the same (if the real reasons were to be with a family he thought may be ill) but absolutely the 60 mile drive to Barnard Castle (or, as he was careful to say, 'the outskirts of' Barnard Castle ("I did not visit the castle...")) is ridiculous.

Apart from anything else, he couldn't have visited the castle because it's shut. Y'know Dominic, cos of the virus...
"Forewarned is forearmed"
How do you know I didn't?

Finningley Boy
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Finningley Boy »

CJS wrote:
Tue 26 May 2020, 1:14 pm
FB, you want a list?

Here's a list:

Kier Starmer
Sajid Javid
Harriet Harman
Ed Davey
Emily Thornberry
Hilary Benn
Theresa May
Yvette Cooper
Rishi Sunak
Andrea Leadsom (yes, I even think she'd be better...)

One other, direct, question: Do you honestly believe Cummings when he says he drove 60 miles to test his eyesight? I'm asking, because it will give some idea as to whether you are blinded to anything the Tories may do. If you believe what he said yesterday, I mean really you believe it, then I think any replies to your posts are pointless in the future.

:face_with_monocle: as you would say...

Edit - On the point of his drive from London to Durham: I think I'd have done the same (if the real reasons were to be with a family he thought may be ill) but absolutely the 60 mile drive to Barnard Castle (or, as he was careful to say, 'the outskirts of' Barnard Castle ("I did not visit the castle...")) is ridiculous.

Apart from anything else, he couldn't have visited the castle because it's shut. Y'know Dominic, cos of the virus...
Apart from two, or rather one, ok the two Sajid Javid and Andrea Leasom, the latter I'm less sure, but the rest you've got to be bluidy kidding! Starmer would be the third, however, and I've posted before, a red line as far as I'm concerned, this man voted invariably to oppose any military action against Daesh or any UK military overseas operations at all. You should cast your mind back to 2014 and recall the situation with daesh then, when the UK along with other, largely NATO countries began operations against the crowd.

You can be sure, that apart from the obvious, this kind of thinking would not be good generally for any approach toward Foreign and Defence policy. I'm one of the odd balls who still gives this the highest priority.

FB

PS On reflection, tentatively, Hilary Benn and Rishi Sunak you can add to my own shortlist. :slight_smile: Subject to review, the rest are absolutely outrageous suggestions! :cowboy:
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by CJS »

FB fair enough, you're entitled to your opinion.

Any chance you could answer my direct question though, I'm interested in your take on it?

Much obliged :lol:
"Forewarned is forearmed"
How do you know I didn't?

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pbeardmore
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by pbeardmore »

Nobody is more Tory than my mum, it's in her DNA. Even she has lost patience. Even as a non driver, she can see through the lies re the eyesight test.
“The best computer is a man, and it’s the only one that can be mass-produced by unskilled labour.”

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Finningley Boy »

CJS wrote:
Tue 26 May 2020, 3:45 pm
FB fair enough, you're entitled to your opinion.

Any chance you could answer my direct question though, I'm interested in your take on it?

Much obliged :lol:
Ah yes my apologies Mr CJS, no I don't believe a word about him driving 60 miles or however far just to put his mincers to the test. I've never liked the chap but I'm afraid the way the media lined up yesterday to shove his head through a knot hole in the fence then take turns at paddling his backside and worse, has compelled me to think give him a break. Media frenzy, or what!!!! And no, I most certainly do not think this Government have been defrocked as at all incompetent as a result of the risk taking of a senior aid.

Should Blair have stood down when, Ron Davies (I'd need to google his name to get it correct,), his Welsh Secretary, an elected official put up such cock (pardon the pun) and bull story about why he was wandering around Clapham Common, if I recall correctly, looking for his car!

Now on account of Cummings ukarians through plain irrational vexation against the Tories, are expecting the entire cabinet to resign.

Ah yes but at least Davies resigned you'll quickly point out. But nobody got tore into him or Blair for the matter of his transgression. And there are others. And I'm sure the Cummings lynch mob will feel sympathy, unduly, with each, but not a tory, or a civil servant who works for a tory government, especially one who has been successful in helping Johnson confront Barnier, whom I'm sure you would all take the side of. Just remember, what ever happens, Barnier owes you and I , sweet FA.

FB
I have danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings!

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by CJS »

FB who is calling for the whole cabinet to resign, even on here? I had Sunak on my list to take over from BJ.

Granted I'd get rid of most of them, but not all, be reasonable 😂.
"Forewarned is forearmed"
How do you know I didn't?

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Finningley Boy »

Tommy wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020, 9:27 pm
Finningley Boy wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020, 8:42 pm
I couldn't care a monkey's about flaws in the Tory Government's arguments,
It shows.

But what’s curious to me is the desperate extent to which you will defend them. If you don’t care, why do you battle every single post?

You’re defending the indefensible.

And the line you’ve taken; “I couldn’t give a monkeys” and “I will always vote Conservative” is precisely why we’re in this mess.

Johnson’s a joke. You know it. But you’re so entrenched in all-over blue Tory that you feel obligated to defend him. The essence of tribalism. Doesn’t matter who it is. The next Tory leader could be a friggin walnut and you’d be on here defending the pro-nut policies, and engaging In whataboutery hypotheticals, and making up/misquoting other people’s points so that you can argue against them, rather than what’s actually been said.
Why do you always quote me out of full context?

FB

And yes it is a rhetorical question I suppose.
I have danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings!

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Finningley Boy »

FarnboroJohn wrote:
Tue 26 May 2020, 6:35 pm
Finningley Boy wrote:
Tue 26 May 2020, 6:21 pm
CJS wrote:
Tue 26 May 2020, 3:45 pm
FB fair enough, you're entitled to your opinion.

Any chance you could answer my direct question though, I'm interested in your take on it?

Much obliged :lol:
Ah yes my apologies Mr CJS, no I don't believe a word about him driving 60 miles or however far just to put his mincers to the test. I've never liked the chap but I'm afraid the way the media lined up yesterday to shove his head through a knot hole in the fence then take turns at paddling his backside and worse, has compelled me to think give him a break. Media frenzy, or what!!!! And no, I most certainly do not think this Government have been defrocked as at all incompetent as a result of the risk taking of a senior aid.

Should Blair have stood down when, Ron Davies (I'd need to google his name to get it correct,), his Welsh Secretary, an elected official put up such cock (pardon the pun) and bull story about why he was wandering around Clapham Common, if I recall correctly, looking for his car!

Now on account of Cummings ukarians through plain irrational vexation against the Tories, are expecting the entire cabinet to resign.

Ah yes but at least Davies resigned you'll quickly point out. But nobody got tore into him or Blair for the matter of his transgression. And there are others. And I'm sure the Cummings lynch mob will feel sympathy, unduly, with each, but not a tory, or a civil servant who works for a tory government, especially one who has been successful in helping Johnson confront Barnier, whom I'm sure you would all take the side of. Just remember, what ever happens, Barnier owes you and I , sweet FA.

FB
Cummings is not a civil servant. He is (for some purposes) treated like one but he is a political appointee who does not serve the government of the day of whatever complexion impartially, rather being a partisan supporter of the current government. I'm sure a number of us should be grateful if you would refrain from classing him with people who have the nation's best interests at heart.

Thank you.
Civil servants have long had a reputation for running the country, but its hardly with our best interests at Heart at every turn, another sweeping statement.

FB
I have danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings!

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Finningley Boy »

Tommy wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020, 6:20 pm




I gave up with them when they did the 2010 SDSR, that was too much for me, and I decided that I would need to be seriously impressed to vote for them again, but how many times do they have to fail like this before their devoted supporters think “maybe these guys aren’t very good?”.
I can't believe that all there is to your analysis, you do remember the financial crisis at the time? You do recall the frenzied anger at any attempt to approach any other government department, apart from the Home Office) to find savings. You do recall the long forecast expectations, beforehand, about pending heavy defence cuts prior to the election? You may also recall the pre-SDSR (regardless of which party was elected to form a government) public fighting between the services different backers, mostly calling for the RAF to be disbanded.

Did it worry you quite the same in 1998, when with a healthy economy, courtesy of the previous government, the new one (New Labour) following their SDR, decided to disband two Tornado Squadrons 17 and 29. Then after Blair jumped onto George Bushes coat tails and managed to get involved in an unjustifiable invasion chasing non-existent WMD? In the midst of these festering conflicts in the middle east, Blair's government cut and cut the Defence Budget, Army cut from 125,000 to scarcely 100,000, Sea Harrier upgrade cancelled and aircraft withdrawn from service. Entire Jaguar fleet withdrawn and Tornado F3 Force reduced from six squadrons in 1997 to one in 2009, one RAF Harrier squadron disbanded to form one of the only two Typhoon squadrons to form over a period of four years. It took four years to form two operational Typhoon squadrons. We went, with absolutely no financial pressure as a nation to do so from, an RAF FJ force of 20 Squadrons plus four OCUs and the Navy with two Sea Harrier Sqns and the HQ Training Sqn to 13 Squadrons and 3 OCUs through the 13 years of Labour.

It proved one thing, Conservatives cut defence spending because they have to, Labour cut defence spending because they want to. And each time a Labour Government gets voted out, the country has always been heading for bankruptcy. Tories voted out in 1964, effectively following Profumo Scandal, out in 1974 due to failure to control union excess, out in 1997 over infighting over Europe and general public malaise after spending 18 unbroken years with a large majority.

Tommy, no doubt you'll find a short few words to lift out of that lot and quote separately presenting an entirely different and opposite point.

FB
I have danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings!

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Spiny Norman »

Finningley Boy wrote:
Wed 27 May 2020, 12:24 am
Tommy wrote:
Mon 25 May 2020, 6:20 pm




I gave up with them when they did the 2010 SDSR, that was too much for me, and I decided that I would need to be seriously impressed to vote for them again, but how many times do they have to fail like this before their devoted supporters think “maybe these guys aren’t very good?”.
I can't believe that all there is to your analysis, you do remember the financial crisis at the time? You do recall the frenzied anger at any attempt to approach any other government department, apart from the Home Office) to find savings. You do recall the long forecast expectations, beforehand, about pending heavy defence cuts prior to the election? You may also recall the pre-SDSR (regardless of which party was elected to form a government) public fighting between the services different backers, mostly calling for the RAF to be disbanded.

Did it worry you quite the same in 1998, when with a healthy economy, courtesy of the previous government, the new one (New Labour) following their SDR, decided to disband two Tornado Squadrons 17 and 29. Then after Blair jumped onto George Bushes coat tails and managed to get involved in an unjustifiable invasion chasing non-existent WMD? In the midst of these festering conflicts in the middle east, Blair's government cut and cut the Defence Budget, Army cut from 125,000 to scarcely 100,000, Sea Harrier upgrade cancelled and aircraft withdrawn from service. Entire Jaguar fleet withdrawn and Tornado F3 Force reduced from six squadrons in 1997 to one in 2009, one RAF Harrier squadron disbanded to form one of the only two Typhoon squadrons to form over a period of four years. It took four years to form two operational Typhoon squadrons. We went, with absolutely no financial pressure as a nation to do so from, an RAF FJ force of 20 Squadrons plus four OCUs and the Navy with two Sea Harrier Sqns and the HQ Training Sqn to 13 Squadrons and 3 OCUs through the 13 years of Labour.

It proved one thing, Conservatives cut defence spending because they have to, Labour cut defence spending because they want to. And each time a Labour Government gets voted out, the country has always been heading for bankruptcy. Tories voted out in 1964, effectively following Profumo Scandal, out in 1974 due to failure to control union excess, out in 1997 over infighting over Europe and general public malaise after spending 18 unbroken years with a large majority.

Tommy, no doubt you'll find a short few words to lift out of that lot and quote separately presenting an entirely different and opposite point.

FB
With all that's been going on, I needed a laugh. Thanks, FB!

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