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iainpeden
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Re: 2019 General Election

Post by iainpeden »

Can somebody add "Abstaining by spoiling paper" to the ballot which started this thread because that's how I am thinking at the moment?
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pbeardmore
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Re: 2019 General Election

Post by pbeardmore »

It's a complicated World with hard decisions to be made.

As soon as a family member or dear friend suffers a medical emergency and we want the best possible care for our loved ones, suddenly , what we have in our back pocket becomes less important or even meaningless. All it takes is a phone call for our day to day priorities to completely change.

Re spoiling the paper, it's too late now but we need some form of independent pressure group who speak for those who are utterly fed up with the system. Politicians seem completely oblivious to this. Partly because many voters seem obliged to vote (no matter how bad things are) so we keep getting the same old garbage. If voting figures fell dramatically whilst, spoilt papers rose, something would have to be done. Politicains collectively seemed to have forgotten that they have to earn our vote rather than just turn up with a rosette and a manifesto: and the blame for this partly rests with the voters themselves.
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CJS
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Re: 2019 General Election

Post by CJS »

iainpeden wrote:Can somebody add "Abstaining by spoiling paper" to the ballot which started this thread because that's how I am thinking at the moment?


I would if it didn't reset the totals!

Am I the only one who thinks compulsory voting would be a good idea?

Also, as a little more proof that you shouldn't vote Tory or Labour (and that there is, believe it or not, an alternative) I will just leave this here, from the BBC News website:

"Neither the Conservatives nor Labour are offering "credible" spending plans ahead of the election, an influential research group has said.

The Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) said it was "highly likely" the Tories would end up spending more than their manifesto pledges.

Labour, it warned, would be unable to deliver its spending increases as it has promised.

Neither was being "honest" with voters, director Paul Johnson said.

The Liberal Democrats were "the most fiscally prudent" in terms of the public finances, he added, but given the uncertainty around Brexit, it was difficult to say whether they or any other party would be able to deliver their plans."

Now, just to preempt this evening's Bobby Marley rants, the IFS is not a LibDem run organisation, and this is not the BBC making stuff up, they are reporting the facts as reported by someone else.

The IFS is an independent body, as most of us already know. More here (for those of us on here who's instant reaction to anything is "fix, fraud, made up, fake news, doesn't agree with my point of view so it must be wrong...") https://www.ifs.org.uk/about
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Pen Pusher
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Re: 2019 General Election

Post by Pen Pusher »

CJS wrote:Am I the only one who thinks compulsory voting would be a good idea?


Does that mean then that there is someone in the booth with you to make sure you put a cross in a box.?

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Brevet Cable
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Re: 2019 General Election

Post by Brevet Cable »

Have any of them ever produced credible spending plans, or any other plans for that matter?

The problem with the LibDems is that the Party in general - and Swinson in particular - are still tainted by their coalition with the Conservatives.

I'm fully expecting Labour to get another kicking in Wales ( and a lot of that's down to the antics of the WAG ) and the Leave-voting areas there to go for TBP candidates rather than Tory & that the LibDems won't get a look in.

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Re: 2019 General Election

Post by boff180 »

Pen Pusher wrote:
CJS wrote:Am I the only one who thinks compulsory voting would be a good idea?


Does that mean then that there is someone in the booth with you to make sure you put a cross in a box.?

Brian


The Belgian system is the best imho. Although currently not stringently enforced.

Voting isn't compulsory but attending your Polling Station is - unless you have special dispensation (disabled, not mobile.etc).

I look forward to reading some of the essays written as "letters to the prime minister" on voting papers counting night. Much more amusing than someone drawing a cock and balls in each tick box or writing c***, t***.etc next to each name.

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Brevet Cable
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Re: 2019 General Election

Post by Brevet Cable »

Pen Pusher wrote:
CJS wrote:Am I the only one who thinks compulsory voting would be a good idea?


Does that mean then that there is someone in the booth with you to make sure you put a cross in a box.?

Brian

Same as other Countries --a NOTA option.

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pbeardmore
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Re: 2019 General Election

Post by pbeardmore »

NOTA would allow a formal option re voters showing their displeasure at "the system". Of course, the system does not want to discuss this: try finding a politician who positively wants to give a NOTA option to the voters.
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CJS
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Re: 2019 General Election

Post by CJS »

Brevet Cable wrote:
Pen Pusher wrote:
CJS wrote:Am I the only one who thinks compulsory voting would be a good idea?


Does that mean then that there is someone in the booth with you to make sure you put a cross in a box.?

Brian

Same as other Countries --a NOTA option.


I'd be happy to have that as an option (RON won an NUS election by a landslide once when I was at Uni) but surely, surely getting a higher % of the electorate in to the polling booth would at least get some of them to vote 'properly'?

Compulsory voting and PR - that's what I would...erm...vote for :grin:

And yes BC, I agree - tainted by the coalition, but we're going back a bit now. Let's let bygones be bygones eh :wink:

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LN Strike Eagle
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Re: 2019 General Election

Post by LN Strike Eagle »

Brevet Cable wrote:The problem with the LibDems is that the Party in general - and Swinson in particular - are still tainted by their coalition with the Conservatives.

Never ceases to amaze me. How are they still carrying around the baggage of that, five years later, yet the Tories get away with all the baggage they've had since July, let alone the last nine years! :dizzy:
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Finningley Boy
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Re: 2019 General Election

Post by Finningley Boy »

LN Strike Eagle wrote:
Brevet Cable wrote:The problem with the LibDems is that the Party in general - and Swinson in particular - are still tainted by their coalition with the Conservatives.

Never ceases to amaze me. How are they still carrying around the baggage of that, five years later, yet the Tories get away with all the baggage they've had since July, let alone the last nine years! :dizzy:

I'll put the question to you bluntly LN, I trust you're not a fan of the rotten nasty tories, a bit like BM? Out of all the rest, who do you most trust with the defence of the realm and whoever it is, do you regard your choice of party as more reliable on this matter than the tories?

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Brevet Cable
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Re: 2019 General Election

Post by Brevet Cable »

NOTA.
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jalfrezi
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Re: 2019 General Election

Post by jalfrezi »

Finningley Boy wrote:
LN Strike Eagle wrote:
Brevet Cable wrote:The problem with the LibDems is that the Party in general - and Swinson in particular - are still tainted by their coalition with the Conservatives.

Never ceases to amaze me. How are they still carrying around the baggage of that, five years later, yet the Tories get away with all the baggage they've had since July, let alone the last nine years! :dizzy:

I'll put the question to you bluntly LN, I trust you're not a fan of the rotten nasty tories, a bit like BM? Out of all the rest, who do you most trust with the defence of the realm and whoever it is, do you regard your choice of party as more reliable on this matter than the tories?

FB


Well not the Conservatives, who have overseen a steady reduction over the last nine years, although I will concede Labour may have cut it more and the Lib Dems are an unknown quantity. But my point is you can't trust any of them.

Besides, is defence of the realm your main criteria on which party you would vote for, surely health and education should be higher priority? The Tories have failed on both of those too....

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Re: 2019 General Election

Post by pbeardmore »

Trust and funding are 2 different things. Easy to throw money at projects, mess them up, cancel etc etc,

possible to be trust worthy and cost effective. Trust is earned, not bought (well that's what my wife says!)

Also, BJ is a proven lier, trust has gone out of the window with him. There is no reason to trust him on defence just because his rosette is blue
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ExVulcanGC
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Re: 2019 General Election

Post by ExVulcanGC »

I know that the Conservatives and Brexit are an anathema to nearly all the contributors to this thread, but for everything that is thrown at the Conservatives they are, in my opinion, just as applicable to the other parties and in the case of Labour they could currently be considered the worst of the lot, who are a leave party even though the fence post Corbyn is sitting on is firmly stuck up his backside, I do not believe his Brexit plan is feasible or achievable either.

The Lib Dems I would not trust as far as I could throw them, especially as they have the same problem as Labour, that being a leader who is not helping the parties cause.

Not voting, spoiling the ballot paper or voting for Lib Dems or Brexit party will risk a Labour party in coalition with the SNP getting a chance at forming a minority government, and I am not sure that the rest of the UK who cannot vote for the SNP will be happy that the Scottish voters could possibly influence the government the UK ends up with, Sturgeon would love that.

Westminster will remain at a stalemate if a coalition does succeed, as anything they try will be voted down by the other parties, plus the in-fighting between Labour and the SNP would not help one bit as the two parties have incompatible needs and that will be worse than the Conservative/Lib Dem one was.

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Re: 2019 General Election

Post by Bobby Marley »

Only got five minutes on here, what party do people here think would be best for the poorests of workers living on the bread line, and really really strugling to manage week after week?.

BM.

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Re: 2019 General Election

Post by rockfordstone »

Bobby Marley wrote:Only got five minutes on here, what party do people here think would be best for the poorests of workers living on the bread line, and really really strugling to manage week after week?.

BM.

oooh oooh let me guess
is it labour?

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Re: 2019 General Election

Post by pbeardmore »

"Not voting, spoiling the ballot paper or voting for Lib Dems or Brexit party will risk a Labour party in coalition with the SNP"

Not in my constituency.
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Re: 2019 General Election

Post by ExVulcanGC »

pbeardmore wrote:"Not voting, spoiling the ballot paper or voting for Lib Dems or Brexit party will risk a Labour party in coalition with the SNP"

Not in my constituency.


I understand what you are saying, for example I took one constituency (Liverpool West Derby) that has always been Labour, at the last election there was 61,699 eligible voters of which 16, 536 did not vote/spoilt papers which left Labour with 37,371 votes against Conservatives in second place with 4,463 votes, which means that even if all 16,536 voted Conservative it would still be a Labour seat, it will be interesting to see if the new Labour candidate for this next election will still get in.

Wonder how many of these safe seats will remain safe since 2017, or if any will now go for a change.

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Re: 2019 General Election

Post by toom317 »

Well up here in Scotland, we've just had a party political broadcast by the "Scottish Conservative and Unionist" party. Love how that "Unionist" bit only gets mentioned at election time. Anyway, as usual, instead of telling us what they will do for Scotland, the whole thing was about the SNP, and not having another indyref. Same as Labour and the Lib dems. No detail on policies, just opposing another indyref. They go on about independence, more than the SNP do. :facepalm:
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Re: 2019 General Election

Post by Mooshie1956 »

Bobby Marley wrote:Only got five minutes on here, what party do people here think would be best for the poorests of workers living on the bread line, and really really strugling to manage week after week?.

BM.


Well as someone who has to look after my disabled wife, so only on full PiP and carers allowance and a small pension I had to take out early, Brexit aside I would still say Tory.
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Mooshie1956
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Re: 2019 General Election

Post by Mooshie1956 »

toom317 wrote:Well up here in Scotland, we've just had a party political broadcast by the "Scottish Conservative and Unionist" party. Love how that "Unionist" bit only gets mentioned at election time. Anyway, as usual, instead of telling us what they will do for Scotland, the whole thing was about the SNP, and not having another indyref. Same as Labour and the Lib dems. No detail on policies, just opposing another indyref. They go on about independence, more than the SNP do. :facepalm:


Which if you think about it is really hypocritical of them considering they want independence from the EU, but are refusing it to the Scots.
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toom317
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Re: 2019 General Election

Post by toom317 »

Mooshie1956 wrote:
toom317 wrote:Well up here in Scotland, we've just had a party political broadcast by the "Scottish Conservative and Unionist" party. Love how that "Unionist" bit only gets mentioned at election time. Anyway, as usual, instead of telling us what they will do for Scotland, the whole thing was about the SNP, and not having another indyref. Same as Labour and the Lib dems. No detail on policies, just opposing another indyref. They go on about independence, more than the SNP do. :facepalm:


Which if you think about it is really hypocritical of them considering they want independence from the EU, but are refusing it to the Scots.


Yeh, but we want independence, and to join/stay in, the EU. That argument kind of works both ways. :lol: My real gripe with politics in Scotland is the incessant bleating about independence from all the other parties. All they do is slag off the SNP, but they cannot come up with any vote winning policies of their own. Like them or loathe them, the SNP must appeal to a majority of Scots, as they keep winning elections, and wee Nicky has been leader of her party for a lot longer than most of the other parties in the UK.
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CJS
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Re: 2019 General Election

Post by CJS »

I actually think the Tories are embarrassed by themselves.

First Johnson won't confirm he will do the Andrew Neil interview and apparently his team 'cannot fix a date' for him to take part. Utter bollocks - both Johnson and his team know that he will make a massive arse of himself.

Presumably they are simply weighing up whether it will be more damaging to take part or to chicken out.

Then, I got a election thingy through the letterbox today, dressed up as a Red Top tabloid called 'Future' - literally it took me about 2 minutes to figure out who it had come from. No blue anywhere and no party logo to be seen.

Image

Identical to mine but with a different location at the top.

They even proudly claim on the back that they were 'only 9 seats short of a majority' last time - great claim to fame that :dunno: That's right folks, we were only a few seats short of having the power to form a government, check us out...

The Lib Dems by contrast very much let you know who their stuff is from - because they actually don't have anything to hide from. They also take part in the debates, put themselves up there to be scrutinised and not run away from the potentially more challenging arguments - as of course Labour, the SNP, Greens and PC have all done tonight.

And while I'm on one - the TV debates...

...the environment one - 'no thanks' say Number 10 (rough translation - 'we don't give a stuff', say Number 10)
...the Andrew Neil one - 'we can't fix a date' say Number 10 (rough translation - 'no thanks, we don't think the Prime Minister will come out of it very well so we'll turn it down', say Number 10)

He's a pillock. He's an arse. And you know the worst part about it? He'll probably win, because not enough people will have the balls to vote Lib Dem (or Green, in England) and because the only other likely pm is just as inept as he is, but differently inept.

:loser: :loser: :loser: for Johnson for being such a reprehensible liar, buffoon, and idiot and :wall: :wall: :wall: for Corbyn for being the weakest opposition leader imaginable.

Johnson's team must thank their lucky stars many times a day that someone else - almost anyone else - isn't leader of the Labour party at the moment.

Right, I'm off for my medication...
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pbeardmore
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Re: 2019 General Election

Post by pbeardmore »

It is hard to think of any other previous GE when the combined talents of the two main leaders add up to so little.
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