The UKAR politics thread

Who will you vote for?

Poll ended at Wed 30 Oct 2019, 5:46 pm

Conservatives
56
43%
Labour
9
7%
SNP
5
4%
Lib Dems
44
34%
DUP
1
1%
Sinn Féin
2
2%
The Independent Group for Change
1
1%
Plaid Cymru
1
1%
The Green Party
3
2%
Nigel Fromage's latest project of stupidness
7
5%
 
Total votes : 129

Re: 2019 General Election

Postby verreli on Sun 08 Dec 2019, 3:47 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:It's not political Parties who win elections, it's apathy.


I would suggest it's fear. Fear of losing your job; fear of being taxed more; fear of your lifestyle being changed in one way or another. When fear raises to a point beyond apathy, people go out and vote. The candidate with most votes wins.
verreli

Re: 2019 General Election

Postby Brevet Cable on Sun 08 Dec 2019, 4:08 pm

Take where I live....
The turnout up until the late '90s was around 85%, now it's down to 65%
The winning margin in recent years has varied between around 2,000 to 6,000, but the number of people who didn't vote ranged between 20,000-30,000.
Hence why I say apathy wins elections.
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Re: 2019 General Election

Postby verreli on Sun 08 Dec 2019, 4:36 pm

So the question should really be, why are 20-30k potential voters not making the effort. Is it lack of interest, enthusiasm, or concern? I bet if you ask them, they'll be lots of concern for policies that are personal to them. At what point does that concern raise to a point where motivation to make an effort is triggered?
verreli

Re: 2019 General Election

Postby Brevet Cable on Sun 08 Dec 2019, 5:04 pm

When the local media have asked why they don't vote, it's been the usual "what's the point, Labour always win here"
That used to be the case, where Labour had a winning margin of up to 15,000 but in two of the most recent GEs it's only been about 2,000.
In the 2010 GE, there were only 3,000 votes between third ( LibDem ) and second ( Cons ) and less than 2,000 between the Conservatives & Labour.....but 20,000 voters didn't vote.

Ironically, the Constituency voted Leave in the Referendum ( 71% turnout, 40,700 to 33,700 ) yet in the 2017 GE the Labour incumbent ( who is pro-Remain ) increased their winning margin by 14% ( 4,700 votes ) over the 2015 GE result, where again almost 20,000 voters didn't vote.
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Re: 2019 General Election

Postby verreli on Sun 08 Dec 2019, 5:17 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:When the local media have asked why they don't vote, it's been the usual "what's the point, Labour always win here"

That sounds like misunderstanding which is a communication issue. If you feel strongly about it, you could always help to raise local understanding. Whether it would make a difference to your local election result, who knows? You've probably missed the boat for this election but you have 4 to 5 years to educate everyone for the next one.
verreli

Re: 2019 General Election

Postby Bobby Marley on Sun 08 Dec 2019, 9:33 pm

Evening all, getting closer to the big event - lots of publicity all over the media who ever said poli - tics wasn't dirty.


BM.
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Re: 2019 General Election

Postby CJS on Sun 08 Dec 2019, 9:45 pm

Bobby Marley wrote:Evening all, getting closer to the big event - lots of publicity all over the media who ever said poli - tics wasn't dirty.


BM.


Thanks for that :up:
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Re: 2019 General Election

Postby Bobby Marley on Sun 08 Dec 2019, 10:25 pm

CJS wrote:
Bobby Marley wrote:Evening all, getting closer to the big event - lots of publicity all over the media who ever said poli - tics wasn't dirty.


BM.


Thanks for that :up:



No problem - but you knew that anyway.

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Re: 2019 General Election

Postby jingernut on Mon 09 Dec 2019, 10:54 am

verreli wrote:So the question should really be, why are 20-30k potential voters not making the effort. Is it lack of interest, enthusiasm, or concern? I bet if you ask them, they'll be lots of concern for policies that are personal to them. At what point does that concern raise to a point where motivation to make an effort is triggered?


For me (who has never voted in the 25ish years I could have) it's down to the belief that it makes very little difference who actually gets in so I don't see the point. Happy to go along with whoever gets in, as I can't be bothered to try and read through all the rubbish they, and that supporters of each party, spout out.
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Re: 2019 General Election

Postby CJS on Mon 09 Dec 2019, 11:30 am

jingernut wrote:
verreli wrote:So the question should really be, why are 20-30k potential voters not making the effort. Is it lack of interest, enthusiasm, or concern? I bet if you ask them, they'll be lots of concern for policies that are personal to them. At what point does that concern raise to a point where motivation to make an effort is triggered?


For me (who has never voted in the 25ish years I could have) it's down to the belief that it makes very little difference who actually gets in so I don't see the point. Happy to go along with whoever gets in, as I can't be bothered to try and read through all the rubbish they, and that supporters of each party, spout out.


Imagine for a second if everyone who thought like that went out and voted. :roll:
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Re: 2019 General Election

Postby iainpeden on Mon 09 Dec 2019, 11:56 am

CJS wrote:
For me (who has never voted in the 25ish years I could have) it's down to the belief that it makes very little difference who actually gets in so I don't see the point. Happy to go along with whoever gets in, as I can't be bothered to try and read through all the rubbish they, and that supporters of each party, spout out.


Imagine for a second if everyone who thought like that went out and voted. :roll:[/quote]

I always thought the franchise to vote should be based on an intelligence test not age. I just hope that all the non-voters a) realise people died for the right to vote and b) never moan about the government, whichever way it's made up.

And to say your vote doesn't matter is ridiculous; in our system it is possible, although highly improbable, that the result could go down to a single vote.
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Re: 2019 General Election

Postby jingernut on Mon 09 Dec 2019, 12:19 pm

iainpeden wrote:And to say your vote doesn't matter is ridiculous; in our system it is possible, although highly improbable, that the result could go down to a single vote.


That's not what I was saying. I was trying to say that in my opinion, no matter which party gets in, it makes very little difference to how the country is run.

Totally understand that if I did vote, it's possible my vote could swing a result.
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Re: 2019 General Election

Postby ericbee123 on Mon 09 Dec 2019, 1:37 pm

I wonder why nobody has bothered setting up an Apathy Party ?

They wouldn’t need to bother with a manifesto or candidates and could claim all the people who couldn’t be bothered to vote as morally voting for them and claim a landslide , then not bother to do anything anyway. Just have a series of referenda on everything and not bother honouring any results.

In fact, thinking about it, maybe the apathetic have a point ! Good job they’re not bothered.
Disclaimer-I have spell/grammar checked this post, it may still contain mistakes that might cause offence.
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Re: 2019 General Election

Postby iainpeden on Mon 09 Dec 2019, 2:02 pm

ericbee123 wrote:I wonder why nobody has bothered setting up an Apathy Party ?

They wouldn’t need to bother with a manifesto or candidates and could claim all the people who couldn’t be bothered to vote as morally voting for them and claim a landslide , then not bother to do anything anyway. Just have a series of referenda on everything and not bother honouring any results.

In fact, thinking about it, maybe the apathetic have a point ! Good job they’re not bothered.

:clap: :lol:
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Re: 2019 General Election

Postby Bobby Marley on Mon 09 Dec 2019, 4:33 pm

So - not a popular leader or party then - :clap:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1204058360099815424

BM.
Bobby Marley

Re: 2019 General Election

Postby iainpeden on Mon 09 Dec 2019, 6:58 pm

Bobby Marley wrote:So - not a popular leader or party then - :clap:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1204058360099815424

BM.


Not on here!

We had canvassers from the Labour Party around the other evening and my opening comment that the main reason I'm not voting Labour (along with DA and JMc) was JC was met with a weary sigh. The lad had obviously had the same comment time and again.

To be balanced, the other clown's response to being questioned about the Leeds Hospital debacle shows he is knackered and doesn't have the stamina or brains to be PM.
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Re: 2019 General Election

Postby Bobby Marley on Mon 09 Dec 2019, 11:38 pm

Before I get my head down a few Facts about the Tories and thier achievements -

800 libraries closed.
40% fewer PCSOs.
20,000 fewer police.
11,000 fewer firefighters.
859 children's centres closed.
20.000 less nurses.
Far less Free dentists.
Far less Legal Aid.
Abolishment of DLA benefit to assist those struggling with thier disablities.
Unfair biased system brought in called PIP (heavily weighted against the claiment.
Raising of food prices in real terms compared to wages.
Privatising of so many companies stopping them from being regulated (prices capped at a reasonable level).
Council housing buildings closed down and replaced with a temporary stand in libraries.
Heavy rail fair prices to a stupid level.
Untold increase in homeless and sleeping rough.

Just touching on thier track record - quite an achievment.

Night all.

BM.
Bobby Marley

Re: 2019 General Election

Postby verreli on Mon 09 Dec 2019, 11:48 pm

BM: Will you be sticking around on this forum after Thursday?

Oh, and JC is popular amongst his core ideologues. It's his wider appeal that makes him unelectable as leader.
Last edited by verreli on Mon 09 Dec 2019, 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
verreli

Re: 2019 General Election

Postby LN Strike Eagle on Mon 09 Dec 2019, 11:50 pm

verreli wrote:BM: Will you be sticking around on this forum after Thursday?

Must admit, I do find it rather odd that we get these characters popping up on an aviation group around the time of a GE that seemingly have no interest in the subject matter of the forum at large... :dunno:
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Re: 2019 General Election

Postby Mooshie1956 on Tue 10 Dec 2019, 8:53 am

Well it's only 2 days to go, yet I still can't decide who to vote for. As said as a remainer Torys are out. So it still come down to Lib/Dem or Labour. Of the two I would prefer Lib/Dem but I don't like their candidate. For Labour to be honest I don't trust there policies (usually spend and bust) but I do like our candidate.
Lib/Dem held the seat until 2016 when Labour took it and increased there lead at the last election, but I have a sneaky feeling it could be close this time, so my vote could count.
So do I forget my dislike of the Lib/Dem candidate and hope my vote swings it for them or go for who I prefer as a candidate. Tough choice to call and I'll most probably decide when I get in the booth to vote.
And just for FB Brexit is uppermost in my decision so Tory's aren't in the running plus I don't care for BoJo. He lies to much and in my opinion should have stood down when he didn't get Brexit through on 31st October. Remember dead in a ditch, I didn't expect that but to stand down, yes.
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Re: 2019 General Election

Postby rockfordstone on Tue 10 Dec 2019, 9:24 am

verreli wrote:BM: Will you be sticking around on this forum after Thursday?

i'm going to go with no given his posting record
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Re: 2019 General Election

Postby pbeardmore on Tue 10 Dec 2019, 9:34 am

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... aign-visit

The Tories will clearly make up any lie to change the news agenda of the day (without checking if anyone videoed the event). To anyone who has been unfortunate enough to receive one, a punch in the face is a serious assault and can be very dangerous (plus a criminal act). To trivialise serious violence in an attept to gain sympathy is beyond cynical. But the Boris fans will still vote for Boris. You wonder what the Conservative Party has to do in order to lose support. If (and they will) they win, they have learnt that a huge chunk of the voters don't care about the lies and we can expect more lies in five years time. The downward spiral continues.

I desperately hope for a mass of tactical voting leading to Boris not becoming PM but, it's just a pipe dream.
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Re: 2019 General Election

Postby rockfordstone on Tue 10 Dec 2019, 9:50 am

pbeardmore wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/09/matt-hancock-aide-altercation-hospital-campaign-visit

The Tories will clearly make up any lie to change the news agenda of the day (without checking if anyone videoed the event). To anyone who has been unfortunate enough to receive one, a punch in the face is a serious assault and can be very dangerous (plus a criminal act). To trivialise serious violence in an attept to gain sympathy is beyond cynical. But the Boris fans will still vote for Boris. You wonder what the Conservative Party has to do in order to lose support. If (and they will) they win, they have learnt that a huge chunk of the voters don't care about the lies and we can expect more lies in five years time. The downward spiral continues.

I desperately hope for a mass of tactical voting leading to Boris not becoming PM but, it's just a pipe dream.

they have had bots out in force.

they had one bunch trying to discredit the mother from a "source" and then another saying a "paediatric nurse" says it couldn't have been true. as expected the typical tory shills and journos were picking it up and spreading it as fact without checking the validity. not to mention that they are saying labour paid activists to go to the hospital.

there is a level of disinformation and barefaced lying going on in this campaign which is so bad Its hard to believe its happening. I know both parties are complicit in it, but in the last couple of weeks to tories have been openly doing it and wearing it as a badge of honour.

what a sad place we are in politically.
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Re: 2019 General Election

Postby LN Strike Eagle on Tue 10 Dec 2019, 10:08 am

Mooshie1956 wrote:Well it's only 2 days to go, yet I still can't decide who to vote for. As said as a remainer Torys are out. So it still come down to Lib/Dem or Labour. Of the two I would prefer Lib/Dem but I don't like their candidate. For Labour to be honest I don't trust there policies (usually spend and bust) but I do like our candidate.
Lib/Dem held the seat until 2016 when Labour took it and increased there lead at the last election, but I have a sneaky feeling it could be close this time, so my vote could count.
So do I forget my dislike of the Lib/Dem candidate and hope my vote swings it for them or go for who I prefer as a candidate. Tough choice to call and I'll most probably decide when I get in the booth to vote.
And just for FB Brexit is uppermost in my decision so Tory's aren't in the running plus I don't care for BoJo. He lies to much and in my opinion should have stood down when he didn't get Brexit through on 31st October. Remember dead in a ditch, I didn't expect that but to stand down, yes.

If you're really torn, and you want to stop the Tories, then I would suggest you do some research into which candidate is the endorsed "tactical vote" for your seat - https://tactical.vote/compare

Naturally, the sites are split 50/50 on their recommendations for my constituency, but Labour's second place in 2017 was an anomaly for this area. The LDs swept the local and European elections since, plus I've met the LD candidate, so my vote will go to her.
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Re: 2019 General Election

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 10 Dec 2019, 10:14 am

Mooshie1956 wrote:Of the two I would prefer Lib/Dem but I don't like their candidate. For Labour to be honest I don't trust there policies (usually spend and bust) but I do like our candidate.

A difficult choice, I agree.
If stopping Brexit is your main concern, the problem really is that with the best will in the World it's extremely unlikely the LibDems will win the most seats, so the best you could hope for in that respect is for them to go into coalition with Labour and possibly influence the Government's Brexit policy ( especially with Corbyn & Co's policy of 'remaining neutral' )
In that case, I'd say vote LibDem.
If it's not, vote Labour....because like the other Parties their policies will probably change post GE anyway ( and it's not as if they're the only ones who indulge in 'boom and bust' given the massive borrowing the current incumbents have indulged in )
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