COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

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aceyone
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by aceyone »

Pen Pusher wrote:
Mon 15 Jun 2020, 12:30 pm
Social distancing doesn't apply any more?
11:02
Crowds on London's Oxford Street as Nike Town reopens
Crowds outside Topshop
Image
EPACopyright: EPA
Long queues are beginning to form outside some stores in London's West End as they reopen.
People outside Nike Town
Image
ReutersCopyright: Reuters
Photos show large crowds of people trying to get into Nike Town on Oxford Street as trading began.
People outside Nike Town
Image
ReutersCopyright: Reuters
BBC Web

Brian
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by vandal »

Pen Pusher wrote:
Mon 15 Jun 2020, 12:30 pm
Social distancing doesn't apply any more?
11:02
Crowds on London's Oxford Street as Nike Town reopens
Crowds outside Topshop
Image
EPACopyright: EPA
Long queues are beginning to form outside some stores in London's West End as they reopen.
People outside Nike Town
Image
ReutersCopyright: Reuters
Photos show large crowds of people trying to get into Nike Town on Oxford Street as trading began.
People outside Nike Town
Image
ReutersCopyright: Reuters
BBC Web

Brian
They were discussing this on BBC News yesterday, at the same time PMBJ looking at a review of the 2 metre rule. Lady on the news said more people can be crammed into shops if social distancing is reduced from the current 2 metres.

PMBJ says that he will follow scientific advice regarding the 2m rule though.

Pointless exercise - as you've shown, it doesn't seem to matter what the social distancing is, no one is paying attention.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by CJS »

Idiots.

That is all.
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by rockfordstone »

i went into the local town yesterday to do some food shopping and there were loads of people queuing for sports direct.... i mean what is in sports direct that would make you want to queue for it?

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by CJS »

I know this makes me sound like some sanctimonious little gobs***e, but I really hoped that we (as a society) might have learnt something from the past few months that meant we didn't actually want to rush back to Primarni, Sports Direct etc... to stock up on cheap trainers and sweatshop t shirts.

Sadly, the queues yesterday would seem to suggest that's not the case.
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by MiG_Eater »

It is a little depressing I guess CJS, I must admit I had hoped that this whole period would give people an urge to slow down a little.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Tommy »

CJS wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020, 11:53 am
I know this makes me sound like some sanctimonious little gobs***e, but I really hoped that we (as a society) might have learnt something from the past few months that meant we didn't actually want to rush back to Primarni, Sports Direct etc... to stock up on cheap trainers and sweatshop t shirts.

Sadly, the queues yesterday would seem to suggest that's not the case.
I’m sure that there were some knobs absolutely desperate for no reason, I’m also sure that there were people who’s family might have been in desperate need of new clothes (especially with kids who have either grown out of or ruined their older clothes), and places like SportsDirect or Primark, sweatshops that they are, are the only affordable clothes shops for some families, especially at a time where the breadwinners of those families (one, or both parents) have either been made redundant or on an 80% wage cut.

As far as I know, Primark never converted itself into an online delivery platform, which seems stupid to me and perhaps explains the rush.

There will also be just massive barstools desperate for a new set of trainers to go and flex on IG because dopamine.
The fact is that many people have many different circumstances. Some, undoubtedly, are absolute crap catchers. Other might just be desperate.

Personally, I still think it’s too early to open the shops or really do anything without an adequate and up-and-running test and trace system, which was the second purpose of lockdown in the first place, along with flattening the curve.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by CJS »

Tommy wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020, 12:34 pm
CJS wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020, 11:53 am
I know this makes me sound like some sanctimonious little gobs***e, but I really hoped that we (as a society) might have learnt something from the past few months that meant we didn't actually want to rush back to Primarni, Sports Direct etc... to stock up on cheap trainers and sweatshop t shirts.

Sadly, the queues yesterday would seem to suggest that's not the case.
I’m sure that there were some knobs absolutely desperate for no reason, I’m also sure that there were people who’s family might have been in desperate need of new clothes (especially with kids who have either grown out of or ruined their older clothes), and places like SportsDirect or Primark, sweatshops that they are, are the only affordable clothes shops for some families, especially at a time where the breadwinners of those families (one, or both parents) have either been made redundant or on an 80% wage cut.

As far as I know, Primark never converted itself into an online delivery platform, which seems stupid to me and perhaps explains the rush.
Very good point Tommy :up:
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Pen Pusher »

So you have make an appointment before you have an accident?
Earlier today, the head of the Royal College of Emergency Medicine told MPs that requiring patients to have an appointment before attending hospital casualty departments may be necessary in the UK following the coronavirus pandemic.
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by CJS »

Pen Pusher wrote:
Tue 16 Jun 2020, 7:40 pm
So you have make an appointment before you have an accident?
Earlier today, the head of the Royal College of Emergency Medicine told MPs that requiring patients to have an appointment before attending hospital casualty departments may be necessary in the UK following the coronavirus pandemic.
BBC Web
That literally can't work as such a simple idea, surely?

It could work for situations like out of hours surgeries, where you get an appointment via the 111 system I guess.

But for emergencies where you don't need an ambulance? Hmmm...
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by pbeardmore »

Rather than comparing out stats with other countries, another way of judging the Gov's performace is to divide the crisis up into the various tasks and projects that were required:

Timing and content of lockdown
Track and Trace
Testing
Education
A consistant message (over time and over the UK)
Leading by example
Policing/enforcing lockdown rules
Opening up after lockdown
Supply of PPE
Policy re care homes/elderly
Economic support policy


etc etc
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Pen Pusher »

The UK's coronavirus alert level has been downgraded from four to three.

Under level three, the virus is now considered to be "in general circulation" and there could be a "gradual relaxation of restrictions".

Previously transmission was considered "high or rising exponentially".
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by CJS »

Pen Pusher wrote:
Fri 19 Jun 2020, 10:43 am
The UK's coronavirus alert level has been downgraded from four to three.

Under level three, the virus is now considered to be "in general circulation" and there could be a "gradual relaxation of restrictions".

Previously transmission was considered "high or rising exponentially".
BBC Web
I'm glad it's now safe to have a "gradual relaxation of restrictions", about 3 weeks after we have a "gradual relaxation of restrictions" across the country... :rolling_eyes:
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Tommy »

Some pro-government words:

Whilst the thing itself is not without its flaws (freelancers were not treated the same, and the system is open to a lot of abuse), I think that the Government’s Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme (furlough scheme) has been a tremendously valuable measure and was (overall) pretty well-planned and well executed in a short space of time.

Some people are over-egging it’s success a little because that level of competence and depth of policy is quite unusual in Johnson’s sloganeering government.

It’s cost an absolute bomb, but it really was second to very few in the world and has helped millions.

Sadly, the narrative is now switching to redundancies as the government eases off the furlough scheme, but that’s not really the government’s fault.

A scheme, rightly, to be proud of. A scheme, I’m sure, if you’d have told Tories in November about, they would have screamed about socialism. But overall, it has worked, it’s been valuable, and has actually made a difference, and has been pretty untainted by slogans, sound bites, ministerial cock-ups or political hot potato.

So, very specifically on the point of furlough, the government has done a very good job.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Tommy »

On almost everything else to do with this crisis, they have failed miserably.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by CJS »

I agree Tommy, on both points!

In their defence (and you won't hear me say that often) they have been stuck between a rock and a hard place on much of this. And it's worth remembering too I guess that no one has ever had to deal with anything like this before.

Failures, for sure, and plenty of them. But on some things it's tricky to see how they could have reacted differently really. Or at least if they had reacted differently a different set of people would have criticised them.

Take schools for example - many teachers were critical of the reopening a few weeks ago, but those in business were (largely) in favour as it was seen as a way of getting the economy going again. Keep schools closed and you keep the teaching unions happy (or at least happier :lol:) but alienate business further.

Furlough has saved several of my friends - both their jobs and in a few cases their businesses.

The biggest balls up for me was the decision not to lock down sooner. Because the consequences of that cannot be reversed with a catch up programme over the summer, or an injection of funds from somewhere.
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Mooshie1956 »

CJS wrote:
Fri 19 Jun 2020, 11:42 am


The biggest balls up for me was the decision not to lock down sooner. Because the consequences of that cannot be reversed with a catch up programme over the summer, or an injection of funds from somewhere.
I think that's the main failure. Had they locked down sooner I would hazard at a guess that at least half of there failure's/problems wouldn't of happened. But as always hindsight is a wonderful thing.
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

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It’s been really refreshing following this debate compared to some previous ones. This is just a thought process I’ve had. Not sure if I even agree with myself as being from a military background I see no problem with being given orders and following them but...

Just specifically on the timing of lockdown; I think to be fair to the government they advised and hoped that the general population would use common sense and act responsibly. It was only when it became obvious that the population couldn’t be trusted that lockdown was enforced.

I would suggest that Johnson is as close to a liberal (in the true sense) PM as we’ve had for years. He asked us to behave - we didn’t - he took strong action.

At any other time a government allowing people to act responsibly and reasonably would be applauded. They fact that we ballsed it up meaning they had to put the population “on the naughty step” is a failing of society rather than government...

Or are we saying that we want big brother telling us exactly what we must do??

Tough one to work out personally

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by CJS »

Fair points, but the people of New Zealand weren't given the opportunity to use their common sense, and look how that panned out.

It could have been worse - it could have been like the US or Sweden - but it could have been so, so much better.

Big Brother did tell us what to do anyway, they just should - I think - have done so sooner.
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by disgruntled »

I agree CJS, although I would caution too much comparison with New Zealand given the difference in population density, I does seem that a more authoritarian approach at the outset may have had positive outcomes here as well. But that’s my point really - do we want a society where the onus is on the population to act reasonably and responsibly with thought and compassion for others or do we want stricter more authoritarian rules?

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by CJS »

disgruntled wrote:
Fri 19 Jun 2020, 1:36 pm
I agree CJS, although I would caution too much comparison with New Zealand given the difference in population density, I does seem that a more authoritarian approach at the outset may have had positive outcomes here as well. But that’s my point really - do we want a society where the onus is on the population to act reasonably and responsibly with thought and compassion for others or do we want stricter more authoritarian rules?
If the former would reliably happen, then yes.

If it wouldn't then the latter - in extreme situations like this - becomes essential I would suggest.

I take your point about NZ too, although regardless of population size I'd say, and I don't think I'd be alone, that they have handled the outbreak better than anyone.

Granted I expect it was much easier to shut down the borders, stop the flights and what not, but you've still got a city of near enough 1.5 million to shut down - which compares to something in between Manchester and Glasgow. So the speed and severity it was done with remains impressive.

But yes, a direct comparison of facts and figures is to all intents and purposes, pointless, I realise that. I also realise that this argument has been round and round on here already, and isn't the focus of the discussion at present, so apologies for that.
Last edited by CJS on Fri 19 Jun 2020, 2:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by tankbuster »

Tommy wrote:
Fri 19 Jun 2020, 11:05 am
On almost everything else to do with this crisis, they have failed miserably.
I think the target to protect the NHS worked admirably, the question is whether it was right to have it as a primary target over everything else.
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by pbeardmore »

No doubt whatsover that "protect the NHS " worked 100% but at what cost? The NHS was never really stretched to the limit whist the death toll is there to see.
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by iainpeden »

I think we all have to be very careful and not make the mistake that we're anywhere near the end of this and all need to continue to be ultra cautious.

For me a few stand outs. First that the has been clear over-promising on things from the government; while it's good to appear confident and positive I suspect some of that was Boris' rather avuncular personality coming through. The communication machine has not been up to task.

The second point is about how clear, consistent and calm the 5 main scientists/medics have been. Jenny Harries, Chris Whitty, Partick Valance, Stephen Powis and Jonathan Van Tamm have all been truthful, given clarity to difficult messages and somehow stayed calm with the journalists.

For me, the journalists have been far too concerned with attempting to appear clever and challenging when they, with a bit more thought, could have been far more probing and not simply repeat the previous query. Robert Peston,i n particular, obviously likes the sound of his own voice.

Of the politicians; Boris is a burke but everybody knows that, Raab has not come over as at-ease in the conferences, Hancock I enjoy listening to because he'll take the jounos on and I think Oliver Dowden has become visibly more confident. Lib-Dems - irrelevant and you can blame Clegg for that, and the Labour party have some good people (now) but are caught between a rock and a hard place in the balance between destructive and constructive criticism.
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