COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

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IATthenRIAT
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by IATthenRIAT »

vandal wrote:
Wed 04 Nov 2020, 11:14 pm
IATthenRIAT wrote:
Wed 04 Nov 2020, 10:58 pm
This is where I got that grath from - scroll down a little bit and its there.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... nal/latest
If you don't mind me asking, why the concern?

In another thread you posted that you wanted to turn on the TV & not see an advert or a news report about Covid 19, yet you seem to be complaining that Mainstream Media is not covering Flu?
Was just curious as nothing is clear cut these days - and seems to be a lot of conflicting stats going around.

roger
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by roger »

There is a clear distinction between "deaths due to" and "deaths involving", as explained in Footnotes 5 and 6 to the Figure 2 graph you have chosen to use from the ONS website. It's "deaths due" to that are the important ones in assessing the significance of Covid vs. flu + pneumonia. The "deaths involving" include all those who died of cancer, heart attacks, being run over by double-decker buses etc, who happened to also have Covid (or flu, or pneumonia).

If you scroll down 16 or so lines from the Footnotes to Figure 2, you will see a link to the following ONS web page:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... august2020

This explicitly states as its very first main point that "Of all death occurrences between January and August 2020, there were 48,168 deaths due to the coronavirus (COVID-19) compared with 13,619 deaths due to pneumonia and 394 deaths due to influenza".

The much higher significance of Covid vs. flu couldn't be any clearer to me.

vandal
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by vandal »

Just been reading - Rishi Sunak has extended Furlough to the end of March.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/11/05/rishi-su ... -13541339/

FGR2
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by FGR2 »

vandal wrote:
Thu 05 Nov 2020, 2:17 pm
Just been reading - Rishi Sunak has extended Furlough to the end of March.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/11/05/rishi-su ... -13541339/
That to me indicates that lockdowns and/or tiered restrictions will be in place until at least April.

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spellow3010
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by spellow3010 »

Well the precedent is there now. The lockdowns and restrictions will continue until there is either a vaccine, or they decide enough is enough and 'let it rip.'

Of course, no right minded politician (not one that would seek to be re-elected in the future anyway) would ever agree to the 'blood on their hands' of just letting the virus rip. They will keep moving the 'bad news' goalposts of despair on a rolling short term basis. Remember, we had the carrot of 'normal by Christmas' earlier in the year. We now have the carrot of 'normal (ish) by Spring 2021.' It's nonsense and not achievable. We'll be back to square one, nothing more, nothing less.

The balance for them just now is to stop people spiralling into despair and uncontrollable depression/rebellion by being economically truthful about just how far away a vaccine actually is, and how far into the future the world (not just the UK) will be following restrictions.

Some will toe the line... for others, they'll rebel or call it a day (literally). There's a lot of unrest to come down the line yet. I mean, the tax bombshell that's coming our way to pay for Brexit AND now Covid as well. Be ready for that.

Zoom
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Zoom »

Danish towns are in lockdown following outbreak of mutated coronavirus (from mink)

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/da ... d=msedgntp

They've known about this all over Europe for quite some time now what don't they just put these poor creatures out of their misery and get rid of the whole cruel industry?

Zoom
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Zoom »

spellow3010 wrote:
Thu 05 Nov 2020, 3:39 pm
The balance for them just now is to stop people spiralling into despair and uncontrollable depression/rebellion by being economically truthful about just how far away a vaccine actually is, and how far into the future the world (not just the UK) will be following restrictions.
I don't think vaccine trials work like that, they are very regulated things like all pharmaceuticals. The plan is to give half the participants a vaccine and half a placebo then wait until n peeps have been infected and work out if they had the real vaccine or not. The government(s) is / are as much in the dark as the rest of us until that time.

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Ewart
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Ewart »

Zoom wrote:
Thu 05 Nov 2020, 7:23 pm

I don't think vaccine trials work like that, they are very regulated things like all pharmaceuticals. The plan is to give half the participants a vaccine and half a placebo then wait until n peeps have been infected and work out if they had the real vaccine or not. The government(s) is / are as much in the dark as the rest of us until that time.
I've just signed up for a local NHS vaccination trial, got to go next week for the full medical, bloods/swabs the lot.

Been told that I get either a vaccine or a placebo. But the person giving me the injection won't know either.

Then I have to go for blood tests. I think it was after three weeks, three months, six months and 12 months that I get further bloods taken, however if I do develop any symptoms I have to go to a specified hospital to get tested as opposed to going to one of the testing centres.

vandal
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by vandal »

Ewart wrote:
Thu 05 Nov 2020, 7:48 pm
Zoom wrote:
Thu 05 Nov 2020, 7:23 pm

I don't think vaccine trials work like that, they are very regulated things like all pharmaceuticals. The plan is to give half the participants a vaccine and half a placebo then wait until n peeps have been infected and work out if they had the real vaccine or not. The government(s) is / are as much in the dark as the rest of us until that time.
I've just signed up for a local NHS vaccination trial, got to go next week for the full medical, bloods/swabs the lot.

Been told that I get either a vaccine or a placebo. But the person giving me the injection won't know either.

Then I have to go for blood tests. I think it was after three weeks, three months, six months and 12 months that I get further bloods taken, however if I do develop any symptoms I have to go to a specified hospital to get tested as opposed to going to one of the testing centres.
Although it's a positive thing that vaccines are being trialled, I'm wondering about the logic behind it in that we're all back under some form of lockdown, designed to prevent the spread of infection - so, although you're trialling a vaccine, you may not ever be exposed to Covid 19. If you're not exposed, how will they know if the vaccine works?

IATthenRIAT
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by IATthenRIAT »

Lots of rumours going around regarding the vaccines - Vaccines will be made mandatory / the gov have pushed through a motion removing themselves from any accountability if the vaccine's cause problems to peoples healths or deaths / the gov will make it Impossible for anyone to do anything unless they have had the vaccine, virtualy locking them in thier homes / no vaccine- no return to normal life.

Madness as who would agree to any of this.

Tomahawk
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Tomahawk »

IATthenRIAT wrote:
Thu 05 Nov 2020, 10:18 pm
Lots of rumours going around regarding the vaccines - Vaccines will be made mandatory / the gov have pushed through a motion removing themselves from any accountability if the vaccine's cause problems to peoples healths or deaths / the gov will make it Impossible for anyone to do anything unless they have had the vaccine, virtualy locking them in thier homes / no vaccine- no return to normal life.

Madness as who would agree to any of this.
Apart from the last one, 'no vaccine - no return to normal life', which I imagine given past history you got right by accident and nobody will argue about, any chance of some actual sources on these 'rumours' ?

RAF4EVER
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by RAF4EVER »

I think he makes it up as he goes along. :grinning:

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rockfordstone
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by rockfordstone »

vandal wrote:
Thu 05 Nov 2020, 8:01 pm
Although it's a positive thing that vaccines are being trialled, I'm wondering about the logic behind it in that we're all back under some form of lockdown, designed to prevent the spread of infection - so, although you're trialling a vaccine, you may not ever be exposed to Covid 19. If you're not exposed, how will they know if the vaccine works?
pretty sure to test a vaccine you take a healthy subject, give them the virus (or at least a weakened version of) in a medical environment and then administer the vaccine and then compare the results to a control group who don't have the virus.
it's not a matter of giving someone a vaccine, sending them off and hoping for the best

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iainpeden
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by iainpeden »

rockfordstone wrote:
Fri 06 Nov 2020, 10:14 am
pretty sure to test a vaccine you take a healthy subject, give them the virus (or at least a weakened version of) in a medical environment and then administer the vaccine and then compare the results to a control group who don't have the virus.
it's not a matter of giving someone a vaccine, sending them off and hoping for the best
I think you are mixing up the testing of the vaccine for safety/efficacy and the challenge tests.
The former - mostly now at stage 3 - are designed to be done over a range of ages and levels of health, are given in a 50/50 of vaccine/placebo and then waits to see what happens with people in day to day circulation. Through blood tests the development of T-cells and other naturally protective elements are measured.
The latter are known as challenge tests where young and fit people have the test vaccines and are then given the virus in controlled quantities.
(Mark Twain: There are lies, there are damn lies and then there are statistics)

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rockfordstone
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by rockfordstone »

iainpeden wrote:
Fri 06 Nov 2020, 10:48 am
rockfordstone wrote:
Fri 06 Nov 2020, 10:14 am
pretty sure to test a vaccine you take a healthy subject, give them the virus (or at least a weakened version of) in a medical environment and then administer the vaccine and then compare the results to a control group who don't have the virus.
it's not a matter of giving someone a vaccine, sending them off and hoping for the best
I think you are mixing up the testing of the vaccine for safety/efficacy and the challenge tests.
The former - mostly now at stage 3 - are designed to be done over a range of ages and levels of health, are given in a 50/50 of vaccine/placebo and then waits to see what happens with people in day to day circulation. Through blood tests the development of T-cells and other naturally protective elements are measured.
The latter are known as challenge tests where young and fit people have the test vaccines and are then given the virus in controlled quantities.
i was under the impression some vaccines where at the challenge test stage

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iainpeden
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by iainpeden »

rockfordstone wrote:
Fri 06 Nov 2020, 11:12 am
i was under the impression some vaccines where at the challenge test stage
I'd not heard that, thanks for the info.
(Mark Twain: There are lies, there are damn lies and then there are statistics)

vandal
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by vandal »

Rockfordstone & Iain, - Thanks for the explanations.

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Ewart
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Ewart »

vandal wrote:
Thu 05 Nov 2020, 8:01 pm
Although it's a positive thing that vaccines are being trialled, I'm wondering about the logic behind it in that we're all back under some form of lockdown, designed to prevent the spread of infection - so, although you're trialling a vaccine, you may not ever be exposed to Covid 19. If you're not exposed, how will they know if the vaccine works?
Front line emergency service worker, so how I haven't been exposed to it yet I do not know. I know several of my shift including myself have had anti-body tests all of which have come back negative. And we have all worked right through the pandemic.

vandal
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by vandal »

Ewart wrote:
Sat 07 Nov 2020, 7:37 pm
vandal wrote:
Thu 05 Nov 2020, 8:01 pm
Although it's a positive thing that vaccines are being trialled, I'm wondering about the logic behind it in that we're all back under some form of lockdown, designed to prevent the spread of infection - so, although you're trialling a vaccine, you may not ever be exposed to Covid 19. If you're not exposed, how will they know if the vaccine works?
Front line emergency service worker, so how I haven't been exposed to it yet I do not know. I know several of my shift including myself have had anti-body tests all of which have come back negative. And we have all worked right through the pandemic.
Hoping you, & you're colleagues
are never exposed to Covid 19.

That goes for all front line workers as much now as it did back at the start of the year.

Stay Safe.🙂

IATthenRIAT
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by IATthenRIAT »

Ewart wrote:
Sat 07 Nov 2020, 7:37 pm
vandal wrote:
Thu 05 Nov 2020, 8:01 pm
Although it's a positive thing that vaccines are being trialled, I'm wondering about the logic behind it in that we're all back under some form of lockdown, designed to prevent the spread of infection - so, although you're trialling a vaccine, you may not ever be exposed to Covid 19. If you're not exposed, how will they know if the vaccine works?
Front line emergency service worker, so how I haven't been exposed to it yet I do not know. I know several of my shift including myself have had anti-body tests all of which have come back negative. And we have all worked right through the pandemic.
Do you work in a hospital mate?

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Ewart
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Ewart »

IATthenRIAT wrote:
Sat 07 Nov 2020, 11:00 pm
Do you work in a hospital mate?
Nope.
vandal wrote:
Sat 07 Nov 2020, 7:58 pm

Hoping you, & you're colleagues
are never exposed to Covid 19.

That goes for all front line workers as much now as it did back at the start of the year.

Stay Safe.🙂
Thanks, potential exposure is just one of the many perks of the job. :)

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rockfordstone
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by rockfordstone »

phizer are reporting that the vaccine they are trialling has proven to be 90% effective.

only 94 people of the 43,538 that took part in the trial caught the virus.

sounds promising at least

Zoom
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Zoom »

rockfordstone wrote:
Mon 09 Nov 2020, 12:55 pm
phizer are reporting that the vaccine they are trialling has proven to be 90% effective.

only 94 people of the 43,538 that took part in the trial caught the virus.

sounds promising at least
yes very good news! do the figures mean that over 43,000 people who took part in the trial and were given a placebo DID catch it?

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Pen Pusher
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Pen Pusher »

They said that 94 people in a trial of more than 43,000 have so far tested positive for Covid-19, and that over 90 per cent of those did not receive the real vaccine.

The companies have not revealed the exact number but a 90 per cent efficacy rate suggests that no more than eight people who got the vaccine caught the virus, compared to 86 of those who received a fake jab.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ctive.html
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Zoom
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Zoom »

The Pfizer vaccine needs to be stored at -80oC so initially only about 1/3 of the world can be inoculated due to logistics of storage and transport

Extremely clever bit of kit it's just a strand of (I believe synthesized) Covid-19 RNA in a tiny fat bubble that is absorbed until the body's cells and triggers the immune response rather than a weakened version of the real thing. The UK version works in the same way

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