COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

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Spiny Norman
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Spiny Norman »

With the amount of deaths in UK compared to other European countries, maybe the quarantine should be for passengers as they fly out of Britain?

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by T_J »

Council planners are investigating allegations that the property where Dominic Cummings stayed during his lockdown trip to County Durham does not have the correct planning permission.
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/ ... n-cottage/

Finningley Boy
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Finningley Boy »

Spiny Norman wrote:
Wed 03 Jun 2020, 5:35 pm
With the amount of deaths in UK compared to other European countries, maybe the quarantine should be for passengers as they fly out of Britain?
Quite correct, or quarantined at the other end. Awful state of affairs.
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CJS
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by CJS »

Finningley Boy wrote:
Wed 03 Jun 2020, 6:43 pm
Spiny Norman wrote:
Wed 03 Jun 2020, 5:35 pm
With the amount of deaths in UK compared to other European countries, maybe the quarantine should be for passengers as they fly out of Britain?
Quite correct, or quarantined at the other end. Awful state of affairs.
Crikey FB, a post we all agree on?! :rofl:
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by pbeardmore »

Re entering the Country:

"Asked about the issue at the press conference, Vallance stressed the decision was ultimately one for ministers. “The Sage advice from the experts in this area is that the measures like this are most effective when the number of cases is very low, and they’re most effective when they’re applied to countries from higher rates,” he said."

Wasn't that our exact situation in early March? what an I missing here?
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... rlove.html

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CJS
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by CJS »

pbeardmore wrote:
Wed 03 Jun 2020, 7:57 pm
Re entering the Country:

"Asked about the issue at the press conference, Vallance stressed the decision was ultimately one for ministers. “The Sage advice from the experts in this area is that the measures like this are most effective when the number of cases is very low, and they’re most effective when they’re applied to countries from higher rates,” he said."

Wasn't that our exact situation in early March? what an I missing here?
It was, and nothing.

If I hear one more MP totally ignoring the question "name a country with a higher rate than the UK..." I may explode.

There are countries with a higher rate, I do know that, but the issue is being, literally, ignored by any MP I've heard asked about it.
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Spiny Norman
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Spiny Norman »

CJS wrote:
Wed 03 Jun 2020, 7:48 pm
Finningley Boy wrote:
Wed 03 Jun 2020, 6:43 pm
Spiny Norman wrote:
Wed 03 Jun 2020, 5:35 pm
With the amount of deaths in UK compared to other European countries, maybe the quarantine should be for passengers as they fly out of Britain?
Quite correct, or quarantined at the other end. Awful state of affairs.
Crikey FB, a post we all agree on?! :rofl:
Must be the heat?

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Finningley Boy »

Spiny Norman wrote:
Thu 04 Jun 2020, 8:17 am
CJS wrote:
Wed 03 Jun 2020, 7:48 pm
Finningley Boy wrote:
Wed 03 Jun 2020, 6:43 pm
Spiny Norman wrote:
Wed 03 Jun 2020, 5:35 pm
With the amount of deaths in UK compared to other European countries, maybe the quarantine should be for passengers as they fly out of Britain?
Quite correct, or quarantined at the other end. Awful state of affairs.
Crikey FB, a post we all agree on?! :rofl:
Must be the heat?
Temperature's dropped today!!!! :wink:

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by MiG_Eater »

CJS wrote:
Thu 04 Jun 2020, 8:09 am
pbeardmore wrote:
Wed 03 Jun 2020, 7:57 pm
Re entering the Country:

"Asked about the issue at the press conference, Vallance stressed the decision was ultimately one for ministers. “The Sage advice from the experts in this area is that the measures like this are most effective when the number of cases is very low, and they’re most effective when they’re applied to countries from higher rates,” he said."

Wasn't that our exact situation in early March? what an I missing here?
It was, and nothing.

If I hear one more MP totally ignoring the question "name a country with a higher rate than the UK..." I may explode.

There are countries with a higher rate, I do know that, but the issue is being, literally, ignored by any MP I've heard asked about it.
I think this is just geopolitics. Every politician in the world knows that whatever context their statement is in, it can be sound-bitten at a moments notice. As soon as someone says "Belgium has the highest death rate" you know there'll be some crazy headline saying "Health Minister Claims UK Situation Not as Serious as Belgium!" or some other rubbish.

Its similar to the way the WHO refused to classify the outbreak as a pandemic for weeks on end; presumably for fear of offending China.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

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Zoom
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Zoom »

A scientific adviser to the government has cast doubt over the effectiveness of a blanket quarantine for visitors to the UK.
Prof Robert Dingwall, a member of a sub-group of Sage (Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies), made the comments after the home secretary Priti Patel came under pressure from MPs over the plans which come into force in England on Monday legally requiring most people arriving in the UK to self-isolate for 14 days.
She insisted the idea was “backed by science”, was “essential” to save lives and crucial to make sure gains made in fighting the virus were not lost.
But Prof Dingwall told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme:

We are not seeing new clusters that are taking off from people who have been travelling abroad. I think we would really need to get the level in this country significantly further down before quarantine started to become a useful measure.
Even then, we would have to see something that is targeted on countries with a significantly higher level of community transmission than ourselves - and there aren’t too many of those around, I’m afraid.
Prof Dingwall, a Nottingham Trent University academic who is a member of the Scientific Pandemic Influenza Group on Modelling (SPI-M) which reports to Sage, added:

If you’re a holiday destination in Europe in a country that has worked really hard to get its levels of community transmission down and you’re perhaps looking forward to seeing the end of the virus circulating, apart from in isolated outbreaks, then you have to wonder would they really want to welcome a load of British tourists from a country which hasn’t fully got this virus under control yet?


Maybe the whole thing is a smokescreen? they know at our current high levels we are going to export the virus widely everywhere we go so they are effectively banning us from travelling abroad (or all of us who cannot / will not self isolate at home on our return)

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Tomahawk »

Tommy wrote:
Thu 04 Jun 2020, 11:44 am
Plenty has gone wrong but that numerical comparison is flawed and yes it is political point-scoring.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by iainpeden »

What a wonderfully brave Prime Minister we have. He has put himself forward as a guinea pig to see if those who have already had the virus can catch it again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52924296
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by MiG_Eater »

Tomahawk wrote:
Thu 04 Jun 2020, 1:18 pm
Tommy wrote:
Thu 04 Jun 2020, 11:44 am
Plenty has gone wrong but that numerical comparison is flawed and yes it is political point-scoring.
I read earlier that the data that was used to create that graph was bunk, but haven't been able to find why that is supposedly the case. I know different nations are counting Covid deaths differently - but can you explain why you think its flawed?

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by CJS »

Looking at this https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/s ... ly-deaths/ it's a little tricky to see where the 359 comes from. I'm not necessarily doubting it, but knowing the source of the numbers would be useful.

It *could* be a very useful numerical comparison.

For interest (or not) these websites have some good sources of info:

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
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Tomahawk
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Tomahawk »

MiG_Eater wrote:
Thu 04 Jun 2020, 2:02 pm
I read earlier that the data that was used to create that graph was bunk, but haven't been able to find why that is supposedly the case. I know different nations are counting Covid deaths differently - but can you explain why you think its flawed?
Wouldn't necessarily call it 'bunk' but you have sort of answered the point yourself, different and changing ways of counting (something the UK has been guilty of as well), different timelines for the infection path as well (although again the point could be made that we should have been better prepared, which I accept) and fundamentally its a single stat point from a much larger and complex picture.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Zoom »

There doesn't seem to be much regular data on where the new cases and deaths are occurring other than a daily tally for each country of the UK, for example my county reported 0 new cases and 0 deaths yesterday. Is it just that the other regions are catching up? I can't believe it's down to behavioural differences like having to share public transport or lack of social distancing as if it was London would still be going through the roof which it isn't.
Last edited by Zoom on Thu 04 Jun 2020, 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tomahawk
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Tomahawk »

CJS wrote:
Thu 04 Jun 2020, 2:12 pm
Looking at this https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/s ... ly-deaths/ it's a little tricky to see where the 359 comes from. I'm not necessarily doubting it, but knowing the source of the numbers would be useful.

It *could* be a very useful numerical comparison.

For interest (or not) these websites have some good sources of info:

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
The problem, to some, is the source of the numbers, particularly if they come from that last website

https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/20 ... mystery/

Finningley Boy
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Finningley Boy »

MiG_Eater wrote:
Thu 04 Jun 2020, 2:02 pm
Tomahawk wrote:
Thu 04 Jun 2020, 1:18 pm
Tommy wrote:
Thu 04 Jun 2020, 11:44 am
Plenty has gone wrong but that numerical comparison is flawed and yes it is political point-scoring.
I read earlier that the data that was used to create that graph was bunk, but haven't been able to find why that is supposedly the case. I know different nations are counting Covid deaths differently - but can you explain why you think its flawed?
Its not a daily rate, its the tally, UK figures for the last 25 hour period, what do the EU figures represent? Also they won't be the same whichever way the tally goes, today or tomorrow. This is a moving feast. I can't quite see why our death rate is as high as it is? But this all has to come out following inquiry after inquiry, full ones an' all, before we get to know the unfettered truth.

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PS in the interest of a small scale of balance, I believe London had no new deaths in the last 24 hour period but Berlin has seen the R go above 1 again. But, I stress, it is a very fluid situation.
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Mooshie1956 »

I look at the death rate that we all keep referring to and yes it is way to high, but I got thinking today about how small the UK is compared to France Germany etc. So I did a population check and I see we are the 3rd highest population in Europe, yet we come in at 11th by area. I do wonder if this has some bearing on why we have a higher infection rate, as we a higher head count by area than the other counties.
I would also think breaking it down to England only the head count would be much higher.
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Finningley Boy »

Mooshie1956 wrote:
Thu 04 Jun 2020, 4:19 pm
I look at the death rate that we all keep referring to and yes it is way to high, but I got thinking today about how small the UK is compared to France Germany etc. So I did a population check and I see we are the 3rd highest population in Europe, yet we come in at 11th by area. I do wonder if this has some bearing on why we have a higher infection rate, as we a higher head count by area than the other counties.
I would also think breaking it down to England only the head count would be much higher.
Outstanding Moonshie,

England, not Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, nor for that matter Eire or any other smaller British Isles have anything like the population density that England, essentially Central and Northern England along with Greater London have, they are heaving with people. The closest similarly high national populations I believe are the Netherlands and to a lesser degree, Belgium. France and Germany have high population densities, but are sparser with more real estate. The people who are beating the government over the head about the rate of deaths are the same people who want no restrictions on further population inflation through immigration, legal or otherwise. And all gravitate to, England, and the most populated areas.

Again though, the problem isn't politicians per say, it isn't misplaced responses to pandemics, its people, people are the problem. Whether running round with face masks and surgical gloves, almost as if they're fashion accessories and complaining about the lifting of lock down rules one minute then congregating in mass gatherings to complain to the British Authorities about chronic race relations problems in another country the next.

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Teaboy
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Teaboy »

Finningley Boy wrote:
Thu 04 Jun 2020, 5:35 pm

England, not Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, nor for that matter Eire or any other smaller British Isles have anything like the population density that England, essentially Central and Northern England along with Greater London have, they are heaving with people. The closest similarly high national populations I believe are the Netherlands and to a lesser degree, Belgium. France and Germany have high population densities, but are sparser with more real estate. The people who are beating the government over the head about the rate of deaths are the same people who want no restrictions on further population inflation through immigration, legal or otherwise. And all gravitate to, England, and the most populated areas.

You are a disgrace.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

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Finningley Boy wrote:
Thu 04 Jun 2020, 5:35 pm
England, not Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, nor for that matter Eire or any other smaller British Isles have anything like the population density that England, essentially Central and Northern England along with Greater London have
Actually Gibraltar, Jersey and Guernsey are the most densely populated parts of the British Isles.
The closest similarly high national populations I believe are the Netherlands and to a lesser degree, Belgium. France and Germany have high population densities, but are sparser with more real estate.
Monaco, Vatican City, Malta, San Marino, Netherlands and the part of Turkey on the Eurasian plate have higher population densities than England.

However a combined UK, only Belgium has a higher density in addition to that list.
The people who are beating the government over the head about the rate of deaths are the same people who want no restrictions on further population inflation through immigration, legal or otherwise. And all gravitate to, England, and the most populated areas.
No, not really, and to bring immigration in to is bordering on xenophobic.

Regardless of population density, compared to the rest of the world - our response has not worked as effectively as other nations. Full Stop.

There is no one size fits all solution but the Government needs to have the guts to admit they got it wrong - no-one expects them to get this right, but what they don't expect and won't tolerate is a Government which thinks its people are idiotic enough to swally sound bites claiming that the strategy has worked brilliantly..... you can only bury your head in the sand for so long before something sneaks up and bites you in the ass.
Whether running round with face masks and surgical gloves, almost as if they're fashion accessories and complaining about the lifting of lock down rules one minute then congregating in mass gatherings to complain to the British Authorities about chronic race relations problems in another country the next.
Yes because all those people that wear PPE out and about as a choice to protect themselves their loved ones and are concerned that we are moving too fast compared to the stats are really the ones protesting.

:rolling_eyes:

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

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BBC News reporting Alok Sharma tested Negative for Covid 19.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52924944

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