Flying Legends future? Forum thoughts!

Discussions regarding historic aircraft, restoration and preservation etc
Schanche
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue 05 Nov 2019, 11:56 pm

Flying Legends future? Forum thoughts!

Post by Schanche »

Saddens me that this spectacular event known worldwide for the gathering of warbirds and atmosphere and surprises, still is sadly just now a memory from years past. Realistically is there a chance for this to happen again venues lacking which to me seems incredible that holding this event is causing problems. With the current climate bills and expenses and chatter from some of the air shows held this year with attendance low is it viable to hold this event again if venue found. Biggin Hill or even North Weald seems to me to be a no Brainer for legends although maybe I’m biased as I live in the south east and would dearly live it to be in the region.
We have seen an abundance of newly imported warbirds throughout Europe during and since covid just how viable is it to keep these flying without out the chance to show off there new acquisitions and restorations. I hope we can return to the days of air shows past but the longer this goes on sadly these could just become valuable memories sadly that up an coming generations could only dream of.

User avatar
aceyone
Posts: 2864
Joined: Tue 23 Jun 2009, 12:25 pm
Location: Bromley Kent

Re: Flying Legends future? Forum thoughts!

Post by aceyone »

I think you can safely count B Hill out !
Don't know about those jets ,they spoil a very nice place

User avatar
Bill16STN
Posts: 87
Joined: Sat 13 Sep 2008, 9:43 pm
Location: Near Stansted
Contact:

Re: Flying Legends future? Forum thoughts!

Post by Bill16STN »

I think that you can rule out North Weald as well.
After the disappearance of The Fighter Meet & the increase in Stansted movements that's a no hoper.

UKTopgun
UKAR Supporter
Posts: 1360
Joined: Sat 19 Dec 2009, 10:16 pm

Re: Flying Legends future? Forum thoughts!

Post by UKTopgun »

My gut feeling is that it will never return. The driving force of the show was Stephen Grey and he is an elderly gentleman now, and Nick his son has many business interests so I am not sure the will is there anymore, sad to say.

Schanche
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue 05 Nov 2019, 11:56 pm

Re: Flying Legends future? Forum thoughts!

Post by Schanche »

Sadly you may be right, was kinda hoping that Nick and Richard Grace would be the new Warbird pairing like Stephen and Ray were in the 80’s90’s and bring warbirds to the forefront again 🙄

pb643
Posts: 977
Joined: Mon 01 Sep 2008, 7:31 am

Re: Flying Legends future? Forum thoughts!

Post by pb643 »

Schanche wrote:
Mon 20 Jun 2022, 3:13 pm
Sadly you may be right, was kinda hoping that Nick and Richard Grace would be the new Warbird pairing like Stephen and Ray were in the 80’s90’s and bring warbirds to the forefront again 🙄
It makes you wonder how viable maintaining large warbird fleets like TFC do, without a centerpiece world class event likes Legends?

I have never really understood how you can get close to covering the costs of the aircraft from airshows.

I have always assumed that it requires regular injections of cash from wealthy owners?

You can see why two Spitfires, Mustangs and a Hurricane make financial sense as an extra line of revenue.

Smog Monster
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat 08 May 2010, 8:46 am

Re: Flying Legends future? Forum thoughts!

Post by Smog Monster »

Only way I can see it returning is if it returns to Duxford.

No idea how realistic that is, but feels like one or both of IWM and TFC would need to fundamentally reassess their recent approach to the event.

Despite all the cost of living challenges at the moment, I'm in no doubt that there's still a sufficient number of enthusiasts, and families with both the will and the means to pay for a premium event... but it has to be a premium product to get them to do so.

User avatar
G-CVIX
Posts: 2393
Joined: Mon 01 Sep 2008, 7:39 pm
Location: Falmouth
Contact:

Re: Flying Legends future? Forum thoughts!

Post by G-CVIX »

Sadly I find it hard to think that it will return.

Would Kemble be an option? There seemed to be a slight increase in activity/events there however it looks like none of the planned events have actually gone ahead.

User avatar
Blackbird
UKAR Supporter
Posts: 3604
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 3:36 pm
Contact:

Re: Flying Legends future? Forum thoughts!

Post by Blackbird »

Sorry to ask the idiot question, but is there more to the impasse than money between IWM and TFC? Was there also a fallout with Sywell as last year's Legends was scheduled to take place there but was cancelled due to Covid restrictions IIRC.

If not, perhaps the money-grasping IWM will have lost money on last week's shameful "show" and re-assess their stance.

Andy

pb643
Posts: 977
Joined: Mon 01 Sep 2008, 7:31 am

Re: Flying Legends future? Forum thoughts!

Post by pb643 »

Smog Monster wrote:
Tue 21 Jun 2022, 11:09 pm
Only way I can see it returning is if it returns to Duxford.

No idea how realistic that is, but feels like one or both of IWM and TFC would need to fundamentally reassess their recent approach to the event.

Despite all the cost of living challenges at the moment, I'm in no doubt that there's still a sufficient number of enthusiasts, and families with both the will and the means to pay for a premium event... but it has to be a premium product to get them to do so.
I can't think of any other airfield that has the infrastructure to put on a display like Legends, the capacity to have 3 or 4 aircraft taking off line abreast is what makes the events for me.
It seems last weekend demonstrated, IWM "needs" Legends. The fall in quality of an equivalent event in 3 years appeared to be astounding.

I too would be curious to understand the breakdown in relations between the two organisations. There must still be some common ground, otherwise TFC would surely be looking to upsticks and move out completely? (it is possible that is happening and we just don't know about it)

I have never visited Sywell, so I can't comment on what has happened there, but again I am curous to know.

I guess we will not get any answers for a long time to come.

Of all the airshows that have floundered and dissapeared in the UK over recent years, Legends is the one that makes no sense, it was (is) a world wide success.

User avatar
rockfordstone
Posts: 1322
Joined: Wed 14 Feb 2018, 8:40 pm
Contact:

Re: Flying Legends future? Forum thoughts!

Post by rockfordstone »

Blackbird wrote:
Wed 22 Jun 2022, 6:28 am
Sorry to ask the idiot question, but is there more to the impasse than money between IWM and TFC? Was there also a fallout with Sywell as last year's Legends was scheduled to take place there but was cancelled due to Covid restrictions IIRC.

If not, perhaps the money-grasping IWM will have lost money on last week's shameful "show" and re-assess their stance.

Andy
from people i have spoken to both, parties wanted a bigger cut of the pie, with IWM especially wanting to get the most out of a prime summer air show period.

in reference to Sywell, i don't think we will ever know what happened. it does however seem strange that it was cancelled last minute when covid restrictions were known in advance, and if it was purely a covid issue, why was the relationship not carried on this year?

personally, i think Legends needs IWM, and IWM need Legends, i don't think it is out of the question, as it seems there are no plans for TFC to leave the site, nor do IWM want to see them leave, but i think its going to need a climb down from both sides to see it happen there again.

User avatar
TonyC
Posts: 367
Joined: Sat 02 Nov 2019, 3:01 pm
Location: Lost, if you find me, please let me know...

Re: Flying Legends future? Forum thoughts!

Post by TonyC »

I'd love Legends to be held at Sywell, as it's only 15 minutes from my house but to be honest, I'm not sure that its location, with the lack of decent local roads around the airfield, would allow for a permanent event!

Admittedly, the A45 and A43 are nearby (approximately 2-3 miles for both), leading to the A14 and M1 but with 10-20k people leaving Sywell, on what are little more than narrow country roads, at the end of the airshow, is likely lead to total gridlock locally!

I also feel that the local Nimbys' would also be up in arms about an airshow, the size of Legends, taking place! They put up a sustained fight which delayed the
laying of the hard runway for quite a few years and my gut instinct is that the Nimbys', may have put a stop to any plans for Flying Legends style airshow from taking place!
...and pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in Space cos there's bugger all down here on Earth!

Mike
Posts: 2798
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 5:08 pm

Re: Flying Legends future? Forum thoughts!

Post by Mike »

The management at Sywell don't seem to want aviation events there any longer, the LAA rally has had to find a new home this year

GeeRam
Posts: 445
Joined: Sat 13 Jun 2020, 3:54 pm

Re: Flying Legends future? Forum thoughts!

Post by GeeRam »

UKTopgun wrote:
Mon 20 Jun 2022, 2:50 pm
My gut feeling is that it will never return. The driving force of the show was Stephen Grey and he is an elderly gentleman now, and Nick his son has many business interests so I am not sure the will is there anymore, sad to say.
My gut feeling is also that its gone forever.

Plus along with the reduction in size of the TFC in recent years, it was never going to be an easy logistical task to operate Legends away from their home base, and I think Covid saved TFC from what I think would have been a less than successful show at Sywell.

I think its better to remember what it was, rather than what it might have become for a couple of years before disappearing anyway.
Pretty much everyone fondly remembers the Great Warbirds shows at West Malling, but not the couple of shows after it moved to Wroughton before it then ended.
I think Legends would have gone the same way if Covid hadn't arrived.

User avatar
TEXANTOMCAT
Posts: 357
Joined: Sat 09 Aug 2014, 5:40 pm

Re: Flying Legends future? Forum thoughts!

Post by TEXANTOMCAT »

Mike wrote:
Wed 22 Jun 2022, 2:02 pm
The management at Sywell don't seem to want aviation events there any longer, the LAA rally has had to find a new home this year
That has nothing to do with Sywell.

We managed 6 successful shows from 2004-2014 with close to 10k attending and they were only single days

Meteorops
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed 25 May 2022, 12:27 pm

Re: Flying Legends future? Forum thoughts!

Post by Meteorops »

Although dated 2019 this article is interesting

https://www.aerosociety.com/news/legends-assemble/

Now post Brexit and COVID I cannot see Legends returning in anything like its previous form. The company accounts are also illuminating as most of the movements of money are various interest free loans from off shore companies and TFC only had one employee.

Ryan.
Posts: 412
Joined: Tue 24 Nov 2015, 1:30 pm

Re: Flying Legends future? Forum thoughts!

Post by Ryan. »

Schanche wrote:
Mon 20 Jun 2022, 3:13 pm
Sadly you may be right, was kinda hoping that Nick and Richard Grace would be the new Warbird pairing like Stephen and Ray were in the 80’s90’s and bring warbirds to the forefront again 🙄
Is this sarcasm or a genuine held belief? As I don’t understand what more they could do to bring warbirds to the forefront operating two of the largest collections of warbirds in Europe. Air Leasing has restored a large number of warbirds to fly with more currently under restoration.

As for Flying Legends, I hope it can move forward but it’s difficult to see what the next step would be. Sywell doesn’t seem to be an option and it doesn’t feel like the IWM would be open to hosting it again as it wasn’t too long ago they decided it wasn’t to be held there anymore.

Nick Grey did say on a interview with BBC Cambridge he was very keen to keep the airshow going after Duxford however this was before Sywell was announced and then of course, didn’t happen. I do hope it can be brought back somewhere it’s just difficult, particularly in these times, seeing that happening soon.

User avatar
Orion
Posts: 1202
Joined: Wed 22 Jul 2009, 9:34 pm

Re: Flying Legends future? Forum thoughts!

Post by Orion »

Mike wrote:
Wed 22 Jun 2022, 2:02 pm
... the LAA rally has had to find a new home this year
There is no mention of an LAA Rally on the LAA website.

ozplane
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue 05 Nov 2019, 12:40 pm

Re: Flying Legends future? Forum thoughts!

Post by ozplane »

Apparently the "Not the LAA Rally" is to be held at Popham in September (?)

Berf
Posts: 1242
Joined: Thu 24 Aug 2017, 7:12 pm

Re: Flying Legends future? Forum thoughts!

Post by Berf »

The world moves on - the UK once the 'home' of aviation is no longer and the centre of warbird activity - at least in terms of premier airshows - now seems to be at La Ferte Alais and Melun Villaroche.

User avatar
aviodromefriend
Posts: 2555
Joined: Sat 26 Jun 2010, 2:22 pm

Re: Flying Legends future? Forum thoughts!

Post by aviodromefriend »

Why have I never seen Old Warden mentioned as a possible future home for Legends?
A weather forecast is a forecast and just that

Mike Moses, Launch Integration Manager Space Shuttle Program

FarnboroJohn
Posts: 3038
Joined: Tue 28 Aug 2012, 6:57 pm

Re: Flying Legends future? Forum thoughts!

Post by FarnboroJohn »

aviodromefriend wrote:
Mon 11 Jul 2022, 7:55 am
Why have I never seen Old Warden mentioned as a possible future home for Legends?
It's not big enough for simultaneous multiple warbird launches, which would hamper the set pieces. Mind you, the Balbo coming round the bend.... :open_mouth:

Mike
Posts: 2798
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 5:08 pm

Re: Flying Legends future? Forum thoughts!

Post by Mike »

And why would Shuttleworth, a charity itself, hold a fundraiser for another organisation?

Bear in mind they’ve recently run the Beds Steam Rally off the site

User avatar
andygolfer
Posts: 619
Joined: Sat 02 Jan 2010, 5:31 pm
Location: rayne, essex

Re: Flying Legends future? Forum thoughts!

Post by andygolfer »

Orion wrote:
Thu 23 Jun 2022, 4:55 pm
Mike wrote:
Wed 22 Jun 2022, 2:02 pm
... the LAA rally has had to find a new home this year
There is no mention of an LAA Rally on the LAA website.
I've posted some info re the substitute rally (Grass Roots rally) here: viewtopic.php?p=923770#p923770
andygolfer

winner of Air-Britain photo competition 2019

User avatar
Orion
Posts: 1202
Joined: Wed 22 Jul 2009, 9:34 pm

Re: Flying Legends future? Forum thoughts!

Post by Orion »

andygolfer wrote:
Mon 11 Jul 2022, 8:54 am
Orion wrote:
Thu 23 Jun 2022, 4:55 pm
Mike wrote:
Wed 22 Jun 2022, 2:02 pm
... the LAA rally has had to find a new home this year
There is no mention of an LAA Rally on the LAA website.
I've posted some info re the substitute rally (Grass Roots rally) here: viewtopic.php?p=923770#p923770
http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co. ... ly-in.html

Locked