Tiger Moth ever used for DH Venom air-to-air photos?

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K5054NZ
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Tiger Moth ever used for DH Venom air-to-air photos?

Post by K5054NZ »

Hi all,
I was wondering yesterday: has anyone ever used a Tiger Moth as a cameraship for air-to-air photography of a Venom or other classic jet type? Has anyone heard of such a thing ever occurring?
Zac in NZ
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AMB
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Re: Tiger Moth ever used for DH Venom air-to-air photos?

Post by AMB »

The disparagy in maximum speed of the Tiger Moth and stalling speed of the Venom would make this very difficult. The Venom might be able to make some slow passes with flaps and gear down, but it would be nearly falling out of the sky and photos may not be good. Really for any jet aircraft, a more powerful modern Cessna, Piper or Beechcraft twin would be able to keep up with it.
Adrian

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Re: Tiger Moth ever used for DH Venom air-to-air photos?

Post by K5054NZ »

Thanks AMB. I asked because when we did it I had the thought "has anyone else attempted this before?"
ImageDSC_3839 by Zac Yates, on Flickr
ImageDSC_3840 by Zac Yates, on Flickr
ImageDSC_3844 by Zac Yates, on Flickr
ImageDSC_3848 by Zac Yates, on Flickr
ImageDSC_3860 by Zac Yates, on Flickr
ImageDSC_3862 by Zac Yates, on Flickr
ImageDSC_3863 by Zac Yates, on Flickr
ImageDSC_3865 (2) by Zac Yates, on Flickr

My father has since found a better lens so we can try for Round Two.
Zac in NZ
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AMB
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Re: Tiger Moth ever used for DH Venom air-to-air photos?

Post by AMB »

Well these photos look nice and sharp , but clearly the Venom is making passes and not able to stay alongside. If that's all you need, then go for it.
Adrian

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Re: Tiger Moth ever used for DH Venom air-to-air photos?

Post by Stagger2 »

Beautiful subject, focus & exposure, but hard to be too excited about the missed opportunity. Totally the wrong lens & camera-ship vs subject! Shooting air-air in a biplane is limited to shots in the 6 to 9 on the port side (3-6 Stbd) to avoid struts & wires. Flypast air-air sessions like this clearly limit the shot rate. When you have such a dissimilar airspeed differential a shallow dive by the photo-ship helps but then the Venom (in this case) would have flaps/air-brake out. Not the best configuration? Sorry to Pee on your Parade but in the UK shots featuring seascape backgrounds like these were/are achievable at Eastbourne & Bournemouth airshows with both feet on the ground.
Obviously flying in a Tiger Moth is a great experience in itself. :sunglasses: It's possible given the great opportunity again & a fully briefed mission that even better shots may be had? :slight_smile:

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Re: Tiger Moth ever used for DH Venom air-to-air photos?

Post by Archer »

You certainly created an interesting challenge for yourself Zac! :laughing:

If the Exif data on Flickr is correct, you used the Auto setting on your Nikon, including auto flash. Something I do with moving subjects is to use S mode, select a shutter speed I want to use (1/500 worked for you this time, but 1/1000 if possible could be better) and let the camera figure out the aperture. You may need to increase your ISO slightly if your aperture needs to stay wide open with this setting. You could also try the 'sports' preset instead, as that is geared towards moving subjects, but I don't know exactly what it will do. Oh, and don't forget to enjoy the situation! Not trying to teach granny... etc....

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Re: Tiger Moth ever used for DH Venom air-to-air photos?

Post by K5054NZ »

AMB wrote:
Wed 29 Jun 2022, 9:18 am
Well these photos look nice and sharp , but clearly the Venom is making passes and not able to stay alongside. If that's all you need, then go for it.
Stagger2 wrote:
Wed 29 Jun 2022, 10:34 am
hard to be too excited about the missed opportunity. Totally the wrong lens & camera-ship vs subject! Shooting air-air in a biplane is limited to shots in the 6 to 9 on the port side (3-6 Stbd) to avoid struts & wires.
Archer wrote:
Wed 29 Jun 2022, 1:37 pm
You certainly created an interesting challenge for yourself Zac! :laughing:
I think I should explain! Venom owner John specifically wants photos from his son Darren's Tiger framed by wires etc and this "photoshoot" was very much an ad-hoc affair.

I only turned up at the local airport to get photos of the Air Force Heritage Flight of New Zealand's Anzac Day flypast. When I arrived Darren asked "What are you and your camera up to later?" and then I found myself in the middle of a briefing for something I thought may never have happened before. It was all rather surreal, very sudden, and an opportunity I wanted to make the most of. This was all their idea and I just happened to be in the right place at the right time...although not with the right rig.

I had the terrible realisation the lens wouldn't be up to it but by then we were already airborne - I told Darren my concerns but both he and John were keen to just go for it. John did a superb job with three passes - the first was too far out but the next two were excellent, his ability to pass us so slowly surprised me - and made it incredibly easy for someone who had never shot such disparate types before. I didn't expect to be able to get as many shots as I did: I thought the Venom wouldn't be able to slow down enough but John more than proved me wrong. It was the first time they'd flown the two together, too.

They appreciated the photos but are very keen for Round Two now that Dad's unearthed his 300mm lens. This wasn't a missed opportunity...more of a trial run!
Archer wrote:
Wed 29 Jun 2022, 1:37 pm
If the Exif data on Flickr is correct[....]
Thank you, and as I keep telling people: I'm not a photographer, I take photographs! I truly appreciate the advice as the vast majority of functions on the camera are a total mystery to me and I want to take better photos.
Zac in NZ
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Re: Tiger Moth ever used for DH Venom air-to-air photos?

Post by Archer »

Doing something like this without much preparation is risky, both from a flying point of view and a photography point of view. It looks like you made the most of it!

As for settings, you could also set the camera to A mode, select an aperture that will give you a decent depth of field and set an ISO value that will give you a shutter speed in the desired range. I do this at flying displays and will check from time to time if the range of shutter speeds I get from one side to the other is still acceptable. Your shutter speed range has more leeway than your aperture range (in most situations) so this may work better if the light changes.

Especially if you want the flying wires of the Tiger in the shot, I would probably opt for a mid-range zoom lens, and not a fixed 300mm length. Can you beg, borrow or steal a 70-200 or 70-300 somewhere? It might give you a bit more flexibility. With a long tele-lens your air-to-air shot will not look much different from a photo taken at an airshow: an aeroplane against a bit of sky. If you're shooting the Venom from a higher altitude with earth as a background it might be an interesting option, but it would not be my first choice. Anyway, enjoy!

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Re: Tiger Moth ever used for DH Venom air-to-air photos?

Post by K5054NZ »

Archer wrote:
Thu 30 Jun 2022, 9:19 am
Especially if you want the flying wires of the Tiger in the shot, I would probably opt for a mid-range zoom lens, and not a fixed 300mm length. Can you beg, borrow or steal a 70-200 or 70-300 somewhere?
This shows how little I know about camera gear/terminology! It's a 75-300.
Zac in NZ
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Re: Tiger Moth ever used for DH Venom air-to-air photos?

Post by Archer »

No worries! It's good news :smile:

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Re: Tiger Moth ever used for DH Venom air-to-air photos?

Post by Wbirdnut »

Considering the circumstnces I think the pilots and you did a great job, you
didn't mention how excited you must have been during the whole affair!

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Re: Tiger Moth ever used for DH Venom air-to-air photos?

Post by K5054NZ »

Archer wrote:
Mon 04 Jul 2022, 6:28 pm
No worries! It's good news :smile:
Thank you for your advice!
Wbirdnut wrote:
Mon 04 Jul 2022, 7:03 pm
you didn't mention how excited you must have been during the whole affair!
That's because part of me still can't believe it even happened! :joy: I took my profile picture before we took off for the session.
Zac in NZ
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