RIAT 2023 Car Passes

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stevebrodie
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RIAT 2023 Car Passes

Post by stevebrodie »

Noticed on the site ( https://www.airtattoo.com/tickets ) for next year, you need to book a car park pass?, wonder what the reasoning behind this is ? Is it to plan better for parking?, will you have to pick the carpark you are going to use ?, stop multi car families? At the end of the day there are still going to be thousands of cars attending.
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pbeardmore
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Re: RIAT 2023 Car Passes

Post by pbeardmore »

being cynical its a "salami slice" towards charging for a car. Imagine £2 a car could bring in more revenue and how many people would not come for that additional cost.
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verreli
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Re: RIAT 2023 Car Passes

Post by verreli »

A bit like the admin fee they add to ticket prices.

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pbeardmore
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Re: RIAT 2023 Car Passes

Post by pbeardmore »

Its a standard tactic for these types of events, they can claim a price freeze on tickets or "below inflation" increase but they add additional small fees that the public may moan about but will still pay. They can also spin it re the green agenda as trying to push people towards public transport (although they know for most it's really not an option) or free parking for electric cars (knowing full well that the majority are not) How many cars park up per year?
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Re: RIAT 2023 Car Passes

Post by iainpeden »

stevebrodie wrote:
Thu 21 Jul 2022, 7:55 am
Noticed on the site ( https://www.airtattoo.com/tickets ) for next year, you need to book a car park pass?, wonder what the reasoning behind this is ? Is it to plan better for parking?, will you have to pick the carpark you are going to use ?, stop multi car families? At the end of the day there are still going to be thousands of cars attending.
Free and no suggestion you have to choose your car park. (for 2023)
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AlfaPapa
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Re: RIAT 2023 Car Passes

Post by AlfaPapa »

I noticed quite a few people viewing from the car parks. So perhaps it's a simple solution to stop people from gaining access to the car parks, without at least one of their party having paid for a ticket?

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iainpeden
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Re: RIAT 2023 Car Passes

Post by iainpeden »

But to have to check every pass will add to the queues and to staffing costs; I suspect it’s a remote monitoring exercise.
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roger
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Re: RIAT 2023 Car Passes

Post by roger »

Agreed, re it being a monitoring exercise. And I would add that if you are going to check every car has a pass, you have to have a plan for what to do with those that turn up without a pass.

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Re: RIAT 2023 Car Passes

Post by bishbashbosh »

What about FRIAT? Do we get a pass included or do we have to do this separately? There was nothing on the booking form about a car park pass.
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Re: RIAT 2023 Car Passes

Post by AlfaPapa »

Maybe you guys are right. However, if it's just monitoring then why the need for a pass? Just ask the question how many cars will you be bringing? And if they aren't going to check for passes then again what is the point in the pass itself? Placing them in the windscreen means no real need for extra staffing or longer queues. Those without passes can be directed to a dedicated C-5 and flown out of the airfield.

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Re: RIAT 2023 Car Passes

Post by boff180 »

Guys, DBH are now heavily working on their sustainability and reducing the carbon footprint of the show. EG: staff were asked to bring reuseable bottles this year.

All this is planning how many cars there are in advance, coming from which direction for a bit of traffic management planning and also to work out the carbon footprint.etc of those arriving by car for mitigation purposes.

It's not the first time car passes have been required either - certainly it was 2017/18 or 19 where they were also required.

It's nothing new and it's nothing sinister.

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Re: RIAT 2023 Car Passes

Post by Mike »

boff180 wrote:
Thu 21 Jul 2022, 10:58 am
Guys, DBH are now heavily working on their sustainability...
...so they ask for us to, collectively, print out 100,000 extra bits of paper

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Tommy
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Re: RIAT 2023 Car Passes

Post by Tommy »

Tbh I would imagine that it does make sense, even not on sustainability grounds, but traffic management as Andy said.

Determining how many cars with families of four vs cars with single occupants will help them plan anticipated traffic each day.

If sustainability is a focus, the. Much more emphasis needs to be placed on shuttle busses to/from Swindon and encourage train travel.

cg_341
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Re: RIAT 2023 Car Passes

Post by cg_341 »

But neither of those things can be worked out from a car park pass, as you can only choose one per booking.

I.e. if I paid for my ticket and my dad's, that'd be two cars, possibly even coming in through two separate routes, but there's no way RIAT would know that. It's incredibly common for one person to book tickets for groups of family or friends, who may all be coming in separately.

If RIAT are using this data to decide on traffic management they'll get a huge shock and next year's entry will be an absolute disaster. How many people will "request additional passes from customer services"? How will customer services cope with all these extra requests?

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boff180
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Re: RIAT 2023 Car Passes

Post by boff180 »

They ask you to select how many car park passes you need when buying the tickets.

No system is perfect but for the majority, it is going to give them a very good idea of traffic flow. Those buying tickets from two different routes will likely be minimal and the vast majority will just follow the route from where they live.

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capercaillie
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Re: RIAT 2023 Car Passes

Post by capercaillie »

Tommy wrote:
Thu 21 Jul 2022, 11:16 am
Much more emphasis needs to be placed on shuttle busses to/from Swindon.
So we'd have to drive 20 miles more, clog up a town and use a dirty great bus, when traffic flowed perfectly in and out of the car park this year without any stopping or queueing? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

It also becomes a question of "really", trying to be green when 100+ fuel guzzling aircraft take to the skies, spewing out huge amounts of fuel, some of them even dumping it and setting it on fire! Carbon neutral?
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boff180
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Re: RIAT 2023 Car Passes

Post by boff180 »

If you can quantify it, it can be offset through other schemes to help reduce the footprint. That can only be done through measurement.

No-one is suggesting not using your car if you want to, they're just trying to figure out how many really do and from what direction so that the impact can be quantified.

I really don't see why this is being raised as a issue. The words mountain and mole hill come to mind.

cg_341
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Re: RIAT 2023 Car Passes

Post by cg_341 »

boff180 wrote:
Thu 21 Jul 2022, 11:30 am
They ask you to select how many car park passes you need when buying the tickets.
You can choose between zero and one. This is what the website says about more than one:

"Those requiring parking MUST add a pass from the dropdown. Additional passes can be requested from customer services."

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Wissam24
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Re: RIAT 2023 Car Passes

Post by Wissam24 »

cg_341 wrote:
Thu 21 Jul 2022, 11:40 am
boff180 wrote:
Thu 21 Jul 2022, 11:30 am
They ask you to select how many car park passes you need when buying the tickets.
You can choose between zero and one. This is what the website says about more than one:

"Those requiring parking MUST add a pass from the dropdown. Additional passes can be requested from customer services."
That seems needlessly complicated haha. As you say, what about multiple parties and booking.

And I agree with Tommy, much better sustainability would be to massively scale up the public transport options to and from the show. God knows I'd love not to have to add on petrol charges to my show week, especially with prices going up now, and it's much better for the environment.
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aviodromefriend
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Re: RIAT 2023 Car Passes

Post by aviodromefriend »

Tommy wrote:
Thu 21 Jul 2022, 11:16 am
Much more emphasis needs to be placed on shuttle busses to/from Swindon and encourage train travel.
Going by posts on UKAR, you will first have to make arrangements with the railway to run earlier trains, especcially on Sunday. How much will this add to the footprint? (Just learned this Monday that a lot of trains running through Swindon are still using diesel for at least a part of their energy)
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Tommy
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Re: RIAT 2023 Car Passes

Post by Tommy »

capercaillie wrote:
Thu 21 Jul 2022, 11:31 am
Tommy wrote:
Thu 21 Jul 2022, 11:16 am
Much more emphasis needs to be placed on shuttle busses to/from Swindon.
So we'd have to drive 20 miles more, clog up a town and use a dirty great bus, when traffic flowed perfectly in and out of the car park this year without any stopping or queueing? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

It also becomes a question of "really", trying to be green when 100+ fuel guzzling aircraft take to the skies, spewing out huge amounts of fuel, some of them even dumping it and setting it on fire! Carbon neutral?
I said “if” not “must” - but you cropped out that part (retrospectively, my phone autocorrected a full stop rather than “then” so appreciate how it can be read). I’m not saying I advocate it one way or the other. And I’m certainly not saying every single attendee needs to shuttle-bus it, obviously.

But *if* the show has a mind for sustainability, as the posts above mentioned, then that’d be a decent place to start I would have thought. That’s all I intended.

Not sure the second half of your post holds much in my opinion. It’s letting perfection be the enemy of the good. Of course, airshows aren’t exactly a beacon of green and sustainable events and practices, but this “what’s the point in bothering to try?” is also very lazy - if there are even some gains/positives that can be made in certain places, then what’s wrong with that? If you have 100+ aircraft dumping out Co2 emissions, but you also take, I don’t know, a few hundred or maybe a few thousand cars off the road over a weekend because they can travel by train instead (to the extent that there is a reduction, however slight, that emissions would be reduced), what’s wrong with that? Is it perfect? Of course not. Is it better than with those hundreds or thousands of cars on the road (and people who rely on public transport to have a tougher time getting to FFD)? Obviously it is. It might be only marginally better, but even the smallest improvement, so long as it doesn’t outweigh the cost to implement it, is better than nothing.

Hell - if that’s the logic we’re using, what’s the point in any of us doing a damn thing to be more sustainable if our neighbour down the street mixes their recycling, or the government cuts down historic woodland to build a vanity rail line, or celebrities take 10 minute rides in their private jets to their vineyard and back because they don’t want to take a car.

Don’t want to make much of a thing of this but again - that’s *if* the show wants to be sustainable (which it appears to be if the above posts are right).

verreli
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Re: RIAT 2023 Car Passes

Post by verreli »

I request more dump and burns. In the spirit of conservation I'll plant an extra tree for every extra dump than we got this year.... but I'll chop a tree down for every one less. Seems fair to me.

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Re: RIAT 2023 Car Passes

Post by HeyfordDave111 »

Sustainability, lololololololol

It's a bloody airshow for lords sake, not a green yashmack wearing do gooders parade where they glue themselves to the entrance to the field to stop you killing the grass because ..... oxygen etc.

Sorry, but the green agenda doesnt wash with me, not with others burning coal like its going out of fashion. Nothing this country will ever do will change the mind of 'other countries' so why must we have it rammed down our throats, just to tick a 'green' box, that if you put it to an actual country wide vote would get laughed out of town.
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HeyfordDave111
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Re: RIAT 2023 Car Passes

Post by HeyfordDave111 »

verreli wrote:
Sun 31 Jul 2022, 4:16 pm
I request more dump and burns. In the spirit of conservation I'll plant an extra tree for every extra dump than we got this year.... but I'll chop a tree down for every one less. Seems fair to me.
Sod it, i'll chop 2 trees down for every dump and burn and 3 for every none dump and burn! lol
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