Evening,
Just curious, if a pilot is validating their display before the airshow itself, and something goes wrong (I'm thinking that typhoon incident at RIAT where they nearly hit the deck), if time allows, can they attempt to validate again or would the display be scrubbed for that show?
Cheers, Matt.
Validation displays at air shows
- Skylinerworld
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Validation displays at air shows
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Re: Validation displays at air shows
It really depends on the circumstances and discussions between the Flying Display Director, Flying Control Committee and display crew after the validation. In some cases another validation will be required, others not.
In 2005 at RIAT, the RAF Typhoon did not have to validate again and flew the routine over the public days minus the part of the display which caused the issue (A velocity vector roll IIRC). I believe all future displays by the Typhoon that season omitted that roll.
In 2005 at RIAT, the RAF Typhoon did not have to validate again and flew the routine over the public days minus the part of the display which caused the issue (A velocity vector roll IIRC). I believe all future displays by the Typhoon that season omitted that roll.
- SilentFlight
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Re: Validation displays at air shows
In general only non UK based displays are required to validate a display in the UK, with the exception of Farnborough, which requires all displays to validate regardless. It's now generally the case that the FDD or FCC will validate a foreign display item prior to them coming to the UK if time allows, normally on their home turf, to ensure the display can meet the UK regs.
If there is an during a validation flight it will always be debriefed and will be upto the FDD to make a call on whether another flight can be made. There may be a series of monitored practices prior to the validation flight as well. If it's a serious safety breach or mishap, it may be that the operator has their own actions and investigations to complete and could withdraw an item, as opposed to the FDD/FCC or event the Military Aviation Authority who refuse permission. There maybe occasions where a display needs to be modified slightly with certain manoeuvres altered or removed for compliance to the UK Regs, largely these are picked up well in advance beforehand through the display ribbons and believe it or watching videos of previous displays etc. It could also be something like display line length, where the routine would normally be flown at venues with a much shorter crowd line than somewhere like Waddington had or RIAT now does, which is a particular consideration with displays from US teams where the crowd area is generally quite short in comparison to 2 miles of crowd!
In short it is a possibility to attempt a validation again, if time allows and dependent on the circumstances.
If there is an during a validation flight it will always be debriefed and will be upto the FDD to make a call on whether another flight can be made. There may be a series of monitored practices prior to the validation flight as well. If it's a serious safety breach or mishap, it may be that the operator has their own actions and investigations to complete and could withdraw an item, as opposed to the FDD/FCC or event the Military Aviation Authority who refuse permission. There maybe occasions where a display needs to be modified slightly with certain manoeuvres altered or removed for compliance to the UK Regs, largely these are picked up well in advance beforehand through the display ribbons and believe it or watching videos of previous displays etc. It could also be something like display line length, where the routine would normally be flown at venues with a much shorter crowd line than somewhere like Waddington had or RIAT now does, which is a particular consideration with displays from US teams where the crowd area is generally quite short in comparison to 2 miles of crowd!
In short it is a possibility to attempt a validation again, if time allows and dependent on the circumstances.
- Skylinerworld
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Re: Validation displays at air shows
Thank you for the detailed replies, I really appreciate it. Very interesting!
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Re: Validation displays at air shows
I was at Park and View that day and seem to remember him going back up to validate / rehearse later the same day.clearstone wrote: ↑Mon 30 May 2022, 9:06 amIt really depends on the circumstances and discussions between the Flying Display Director, Flying Control Committee and display crew after the validation. In some cases another validation will be required, others not.
In 2005 at RIAT, the RAF Typhoon did not have to validate again and flew the routine over the public days minus the part of the display which caused the issue (A velocity vector roll IIRC). I believe all future displays by the Typhoon that season omitted that roll.
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Re: Validation displays at air shows
I seem to remember almost getting my head taken off by one of the Thunderbirds in 2017 while standing in P&V East (OK, slight exaggeration) to soon afterwards hear the call over the scanner "Can Thunderbird Control please contact the Display Director on the landline..."SilentFlight wrote: ↑Mon 30 May 2022, 9:32 amIt could also be something like display line length, where the routine would normally be flown at venues with a much shorter crowd line than somewhere like Waddington had or RIAT now does, which is a particular consideration with displays from US teams where the crowd area is generally quite short in comparison to 2 miles of crowd!
2024 shows: Abingdon, Cosford, Sywell, RIAT, Zeltweg with a couple of Duxford and Shutteworth shows thrown into the mix.
Re: Validation displays at air shows
Agreed. Fresh flight-suit, clean underwear & a brand new concept of the 'hard-deck'. "Check!"globemaster50 wrote: ↑Mon 13 Jun 2022, 9:39 pmI was at Park and View that day and seem to remember him going back up to validate / rehearse later the same day.