RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

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melodrama
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by melodrama »

p2philip wrote:
Fri 22 Jul 2022, 10:45 pm
melodrama wrote:
Thu 21 Jul 2022, 10:24 pm
I also thought the Frecce Tricolori were amazing this time, but what did they do differently to previous years?
In terms of RIAT one difference was that the vertical split and following mass crossover were not flown. Would be interesting to know if that’s because of some sort of restriction in UK regulations? It is still part of the 2022 display as seen at other events. Frecce were superb but would have been even better without one of the key manoeuvres missing.

In general there were some minor changes in fairly recent times like replacing the “eagle” formation crossover with the head-on double split and using coloured smoke more often. Otherwise their show has been pretty much the same for a long time. Never change a running system I guess…it is a fantastic choreography flown with passion. The dynamic and solo moves alternating with the formations make it more interesting. I much prefer this sort of display rather than splitting it in two parts like the Reds do.
Thanks for reminding me! Of course, the mass crossover was missing, I did think about that and wondered if they've dropped that in the past few years. Still superb though... the tightness of formation was compelling, as was the Black Eagle's extraordinary rapid formation changes mid-turn; timed to surprise the audience.

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by jonspurs »

I went Sunday and had a great time. The only other time I went was in 2019.

Was it me or were there muchhh more people this year? I don't remember the crowd-line being that jam packed in 2019. Maybe the Top Gun movie inspired people to come :-)

Not going to repeat what's said as I agree to most - Korean Black Eagles were ace.

Constructive thoughts. I was a bit later to the ground this year, my fault, but crawled the last 3 miles for 30 minutes. Then I was in the left lane...red car park said go left...I went left then realised I was being taken away from the base?! Turned around, then joined the queue again, to be taken onto base red car park. In 2019 there was no confusion and they had 2 lanes entering...this year was just 1 lane...which caused that tailback. Hope they do 2 lanes next year - have submitted the feedback form.

Exiting was fine though, got out in no time.

Apart from that, I have to give credit to the organisers...managing a project this size is crazy...thank you and I'll be there next year, extra early :-)

Jon

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BrawlerO
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by BrawlerO »

Jonnym wrote:
Sat 23 Jul 2022, 7:00 am
Bodz156 wrote:
Fri 22 Jul 2022, 7:38 am

It crosses my mind, I made extra effort this year to make sure we left 0 rubbish lying around - given the weather forecast for the Monday I knew I wouldn't want to be the person trekking around that huge airfield picking rubbish up in that heat. It always slightly annoys me the way people leave all sorts of stuff lying around, saw the usual food detritus & even sunglasses discarded this year....other years it's been broken umbrellas just left by the fence or on the grass!
On returning to my car in Blue after the show on the saturday, someone had left a large bag of leftover food and rubbish on my car roof. Lovely. 🙄
What is wrong with these people? Unfortunately with the nanny state in this country we can’t even rely on Darwinism to help prevent them from breeding. Morons!!

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aviodromefriend
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by aviodromefriend »

jonspurs wrote:
Sun 24 Jul 2022, 3:48 pm
Was it me or were there much more people this year?
This year was completely sold out (all three days), in '19 only Saturday was sold out.
A weather forecast is a forecast and just that

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JMC
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by JMC »

T'was very busy, but where the 'peasants' like me sit, it was ridiculous overcrowded.

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pbeardmore
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by pbeardmore »

It's interesting to consider are there any big ideas that have potential or can they just tweak? Some may remember many years ago discussions about a Friday show and there was mixed feedback (including reason why it was not techinically possible) but it has happened and (I think we all agree?) that it's been a great development both from the consumer perspective and raising funds.
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UK Airshow Review
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by UK Airshow Review »


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BrawlerO
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by BrawlerO »

Just read Sam’s write up, very good reflection of the return to RIAT.
Was contemplating returning to FRIAT once again next year but the closing paragraphs about future pricing made me gasp somewhat…I think it will make my 2023 planning decisions much simpler now!
Last edited by BrawlerO on Wed 27 Jul 2022, 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Luke28 »

Brilliant review Sam, I enjoyed reading that and couldn't disagree with anything in there.

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by aviodromefriend »

pbeardmore wrote:
Wed 27 Jul 2022, 9:38 am
It's interesting to consider are there any big ideas that have potential or can they just tweak? Some may remember many years ago discussions about a Friday show and there was mixed feedback (including reason why it was not techinically possible) but it has happened and (I think we all agree?) that it's been a great development both from the consumer perspective and raising funds.
Wasn't the discussion about a Friday evening show (like Sanicole does)?
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by capercaillie »

UK Airshow Review wrote:
Wed 27 Jul 2022, 10:14 am
Bahrain, 57th nation - worth a mention?
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Wissam24 »

Yes, but on its own isn't anything enormous (as in, nation numbers consistently go up) and wasn't really anywhere in the narrative to fit it in.
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by capercaillie »

Sorry, can't agree there Sam. A country participating at a UK show for the first time, first new country since 2014 at RIAT, so hardly rising consistently. It was big news.

Nowhere to fit in? It was bigger news than an Omani CASA or a factory flown Typhoon, and as Middle Eastern would have fitted in there perfectly.
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Wissam24 »

Since 2014 Qatar has made their debut as well.

It may have been "bigger news" than those, but not as far as the narrative of the review went. The story of the review was marking the improvements and return of the show over 2019, not just a list of facts and figures about it. It may have been a new country, but it was just a Herc. If it had brought a Cobra or two with it, it might have worked to support that section of the review.

There was loads of stuff I wanted to put in that didn't have a place in the review I was writing - the Spirit of Innovation, for example, or even the show's efforts at sustainability. There was much, much bigger news which warranted being put in the review over all of those that was.

As a policy, we don't just list every aircraft that attends every show - there are other websites you can go to for that. We review the show to what needs reviewing, and the accompanying imagery can and will support anything that doesn't go in the text
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Skylinerworld »

capercaillie wrote:
Thu 28 Jul 2022, 6:08 pm
Sorry, can't agree there Sam. A country participating at a UK show for the first time
What about their Hawk at Farnborough?
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Jameslw1993
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Jameslw1993 »

capercaillie wrote:
Thu 28 Jul 2022, 7:17 am
UK Airshow Review wrote:
Wed 27 Jul 2022, 10:14 am
Bahrain, 57th nation - worth a mention?
I personally think the fact that the RIAT is still capable of pulling a new nation after all those years, is incredible though.
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Witchcraft24 »

Maybe if Bahrain had bought a Trago Mills they might have got a mention....

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Wissam24 »

Indeed
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capercaillie
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by capercaillie »

Skylinerworld wrote:
Thu 28 Jul 2022, 7:19 pm
capercaillie wrote:
Thu 28 Jul 2022, 6:08 pm
Sorry, can't agree there Sam. A country participating at a UK show for the first time
What about their Hawk at Farnborough?
You are of course correct, although to be fair I was thinking of them coming to a UK show with their own aircraft, rather than accepting the keys of something that was already here.
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by MiG_Eater »

To slightly counter the review: I will say I definitely thought 2019 was a better show pound for pound than 2022.

I think I enjoyed 2022 significantly more, just because it was so great to be back - but 2019 really felt like taking a step back to the glory days with all the Eastern European hardware and jet noise. That's not in any way criticising the show in 2022 - I just disagree with the narrative that 2019 was really in any way poor in comparison.

Ultimately its a matter of taste I guess!

Rob1309
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Rob1309 »

[/quote]
Bahrain, 57th nation - worth a mention?
[/quote]

Agree worth a mention, rather than having a dig at covers being removed off a Typhoon and questioning the sale. I am sure all spotters took pictures on arrival/departure if able to be present and did not think of the country/sale etc.

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by G-CVIX »

Rob1309 wrote:
Mon 01 Aug 2022, 5:58 pm
Bahrain, 57th nation - worth a mention?
Agree worth a mention, rather than having a dig at covers being removed off a Typhoon and questioning the sale. I am sure all spotters took pictures on arrival/departure if able to be present and did not think of the country/sale etc.
I enjoyed the review and agreed with almost most of it, not that that is a measure of how good a review is!

My only critiques would be that in concurrence with the above, I also thought that Bahrain would have been worth a mention. I disagree with the quoted however and I definitely think that it's worth mentioning that the crews wouldn't take the covers off, it is a public relations event after all and that's a poor show from the RAF. Personally, I don't know if politics/personal opinions should be in there. It's not that I disagree with the sentiment, but we are there to look at the aircraft so to me that should be the focus. The Israeli participation was lauded in the 2017 review, admittedly written by a different person, and I don't recall people ever questioning Saudi participation in the past. Many Nations participate and you'd be hard pushed to find nothing politically/socially questionable about said nations.

Anyway, another well written review and lot's of great photographs to boot!

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Tommy »

G-CVIX wrote:
Thu 04 Aug 2022, 4:33 am
Personally, I don't know if politics/personal opinions should be in there. It's not that I disagree with the sentiment, but we are there to look at the aircraft so to me that should be the focus. The Israeli participation was lauded in the 2017 review, admittedly written by a different person, and I don't recall people ever questioning Saudi participation in the past.
I reckon there’s an interesting podcast/debate on this.

Some staffers (politely and respectfully) disagree about how to approach the reviews. We used to never actually refer to ourselves l, or tried to limit such references. For my view, if my names at the top of the review, I’m going to review a show from my eyes. I find objective reviews are a bit bland - it’s the personal experience and thoughts on the show (I think) people are interested in - to a point.

But then, of course, you can also go too far with that - you could waste an entire paragraph talking about some knob who jumped the queue in front of you, or some rude kids jumping on your gear to get to the front, but that’s an incredibly personal experience and however right you might be to be aggrieved by that, no one else gives a toss.

So there’s a balance. For me, I’m trying (when I drag my lazy arse up for review duty!) to add more “me” to reviews. I think the policy of not referring to oneself is a bit bland and vanilla.

Does/should politics come into reviews or even influence them? Ehh probably not really - it’s a step too far into the personal. But then, if you instinctively don’t like what the Qatari military as an extension of the state stands for, then y’know, you might well think “eurgh”.

It’d never happen obviously, but would you take pictures of, say, a Su-34 turning up for static with Ukrainian kill marks? Would you chat to the crew? See if you could buy some tat and sit in the cockpit? Objectively, a gorgeous machine and super duper rare, but then… it’s been bombing our great friends in Ukraine.

I find the clash of one’s politics vs one’s hobby super interesting. I was wondering, for example, if I will ever be able to return to MAKS. Twelve months ago, I was thinking about going back to Russia this year (thank god I didn’t book tickets!). I abhor their invasion of Ukraine, of course I do, but another part of me really wants to see Monino again, and to take pictures of Kamovs and Mi-28s and Su-34s and Su-35s. And *if* it will, at some point be acceptable to go back to Russia to plane spot, when will that point come!

The only end point I can ever get to is to try not to think about it. And everyone, I suspect, will have their own mark/limit. Some people wouldn’t give a fig and even now would try to get over to Russia to spot rare stuff, others wouldn’t even consider the notion.

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Bodz156 »

On the above 'Politics over personal choice/decisions' thing, I have personal rules/ethics that basically says I won't visit countries whose politics/political leaders I disagree with....held this view for a while. So, no Russian trips for me regardless of the Ukraine invasion (just strengthens my distaste of that country), no Kecskemet air show for me as Hungary is out too, I wouldn't visit the US while Trump was in charge & no China / most of Middle East either. I'm iffy about Poland now to be honest, but I managed to go in 2015 so that's not as big a miss as maybe it would have been.

(I wouldn't visit the UK currently either if I wasn't unfortunate enough to live here).

But that only really extends to giving these tyrants & corrupt far-right xealots my tourist money....I was happy to see the Hungarian Hinds for example, if they're still willing to come here.

So maybe my ethics only stretch to a point...

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Tommy
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Tommy »

Yeh that’s what I mean - each person has his or her own limit/line and it’s a really interesting head scratcher to me.

I’m not sure where I find myself on the line, tbh. It regularly changes.

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