Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Discussion forum for all things Shuttleworth
Post Reply
User avatar
MRTT
Posts: 3198
Joined: Sun 30 Jun 2013, 9:40 pm
Location: Chippenham, Wiltshire
Contact:

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by MRTT »

Idiot in a Gazelle flew into the Reds controlled airspace during their display! :mad:
2016 Shows
Duxford Spring
Weston
Cosford
Yeovilton
RIAT
Bournemouth
Jersey

Flare Path
Posts: 3058
Joined: Wed 07 Dec 2011, 8:53 pm

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by Flare Path »

Spoke to a mate of mine, he's saying 400mm not long enough?! Bit worrying!

User avatar
MRTT
Posts: 3198
Joined: Sun 30 Jun 2013, 9:40 pm
Location: Chippenham, Wiltshire
Contact:

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by MRTT »

Flare Path wrote:Spoke to a mate of mine, he's saying 400mm not long enough?! Bit worrying!

Bloody hell! :shock:
2016 Shows
Duxford Spring
Weston
Cosford
Yeovilton
RIAT
Bournemouth
Jersey

User avatar
Pen Pusher
Posts: 6705
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 6:34 pm
Location: St Ives, Cambs
Contact:

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by Pen Pusher »

I was standing just past where the Blenheim was parked, nearer the fuel pumps than the tower, and I had to keep pulling back on my 600mm to get a whole aircraft in.

As for the new display lines, Joe Public didn't even notice they were further away.

Brian
The Future Of Photography Is Mirrorless

DUXFORDfotoGALLERY
DfG on Facebook

User avatar
Wissam24
UKAR Staff
Posts: 7766
Joined: Mon 29 Apr 2013, 9:54 am
Location: London

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by Wissam24 »

Flare Path wrote:Spoke to a mate of mine, he's saying 400mm not long enough?! Bit worrying!


Really varied from act to act. Sometimes 500mm wasn't enough, sometimes it was happily under 300mm. So inconsistent
Twitter: @samwise24 | Flickr: samwise24 | Shamelessly copying LN Strike Eagle's avatar ideas since 2016

User avatar
Pen Pusher
Posts: 6705
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 6:34 pm
Location: St Ives, Cambs
Contact:

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by Pen Pusher »

Said Gazelle that stopped the Reds. I'm sure the tail markings can identify it. Very,very heavy crop. :whistle:

Image

Brian
The Future Of Photography Is Mirrorless

DUXFORDfotoGALLERY
DfG on Facebook

User avatar
MRTT
Posts: 3198
Joined: Sun 30 Jun 2013, 9:40 pm
Location: Chippenham, Wiltshire
Contact:

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by MRTT »

Pen Pusher wrote:Said Gazelle that stopped the Reds. I'm sure the tail markings can identify it. Very,very heavy crop. :whistle:

Image

Brian

Based at Elstree.
2016 Shows
Duxford Spring
Weston
Cosford
Yeovilton
RIAT
Bournemouth
Jersey

Private Custard
Posts: 736
Joined: Wed 21 Aug 2013, 8:44 pm

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by Private Custard »

Just got home. My honest opinion. For any other airshow, that would have been 'meh'. For Old Warden, that was utterly tragic!

User avatar
Dan O'Hagan
Posts: 2293
Joined: Wed 13 Apr 2016, 6:05 pm

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

Pen Pusher wrote:I was standing just past where the Blenheim was parked, nearer the fuel pumps than the tower, and I had to keep pulling back on my 600mm to get a whole aircraft in.

As for the new display lines, Joe Public didn't even notice they were further away.

Brian


Not the "Joe Public" who came up to us. Near unanimous discontent to outright fury at the height and distance. We heard from a Collection pilot, enthusiasts, Shuttleworth regulars and the general public. The only person with anything positive to say was a photographer with liveside access, which speaks volumes.

The greatest airshow venue around has been neutered beyond all recognition.

Important to remember this the the CAA's doing, NOT the Collection or the pilots.

That said, John Romain absolutely owned the place with his Blenheim display.

Thoughtful_Flyer
Posts: 385
Joined: Fri 12 Sep 2008, 8:32 am

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by Thoughtful_Flyer »

Pen Pusher wrote:I was standing just past where the Blenheim was parked, nearer the fuel pumps than the tower, and I had to keep pulling back on my 600mm to get a whole aircraft in.

As for the new display lines, Joe Public didn't even notice they were further away.

Brian


Really?

I'm not sure where "Joe Public" starts and stops, presumably doesn't include you or me!

More seriously though, that wasn't the impression I got from people around me that I would judge not to be hard core enthusiasts. The stream of people leaving the moment the Reds finished was far more than I would have expected. That was only 1hr 25min into the program on a glorious sunny day!

I watched part of the show from down the runway extension end just as I did for the last Vulcan show. Somehow the double fence, creating a "no mans land" plus the extra display distance pretty much killed it for me. That was my immediate reaction with the first pass from the P40 and didn't really change.

Frankly, and it really saddens me to say this as a long term SVAS member and huge Old Warden fan, I found the whole thing disappointing. Lots of factors contributed to this including the strong cross wind (which obviously wasn't anybody's fault), display distance, delays getting in and out, too many people, program cancelations etc etc left me feeling that I wished I'd left booking a couple of hours later - by which time it would have been sold out!

A friend who is certainly not an air show enthusiast commented that Old Warden, particularly on a lovely evening, has an enchantment all of its own. That was totally gone today.

Sorry.
Last edited by Thoughtful_Flyer on Sun 08 May 2016, 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Flare Path
Posts: 3058
Joined: Wed 07 Dec 2011, 8:53 pm

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by Flare Path »

Wissam24 wrote:
Flare Path wrote:Spoke to a mate of mine, he's saying 400mm not long enough?! Bit worrying!


Really varied from act to act. Sometimes 500mm wasn't enough, sometimes it was happily under 300mm. So inconsistent


Thanks, Sam. I'd spoken to him during the P40 display, so it may have been just that. Although, early indications suggest the Reds were very distant - similar to their Shawbury appearance. Can't go into detail about today, as I wasn't there, but hopefully you'll be able to let me know more.

Hatstand
UKAR Supporter
Posts: 1380
Joined: Mon 17 Oct 2011, 9:54 pm

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by Hatstand »

Flare Path wrote:Spoke to a mate of mine, he's saying 400mm not long enough?! Bit worrying!

My 400mm equivalent definitely felt a lot more limiting than it did before.

I'll be bringing 600mm+ from now on...

Watching the show didn't feel much different to be honest
Last edited by Hatstand on Sun 08 May 2016, 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Goodbye 600D... Hello FZ150!

User avatar
Ian G
UKAR Staff
Posts: 2059
Joined: Mon 01 Sep 2008, 6:21 pm
Location: Wolverhampton, West Midlands, UK
Contact:

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by Ian G »

Pen Pusher wrote:As for the new display lines, Joe Public didn't even notice they were further away.


I have to disagree there. I heard a number of people comment who were aware of the changes made and did indeed notice that displays were higher and further away. I was also talking to some photographers who had 400/500 and 600mm primes and they were saying they had taken half the shots they would normally have taken.

I've just got back home and I have to say I was a tad disappointed. Not with Shuttleworth itself - that was great, as usual with the warm welcome and friendly staff and volunteers - but the changes that they've had to make have spoiled exactly what makes Shuttleworth, Shuttleworth! I only went for the first time in 2014 (yes, stone me now) and it was great being close to the action, especially on the dog leg. Not once did I feel in danger because the aircraft were far enough away.

I was looking at pictures that I took then and checking the focal length as I wanted to compare how I'd be shooting today and there is a significant difference. I was situated just to the right of the tower as usual and even though I'm shooting on a full frame 5D3, most of the shots that I took over the last two years were taken with my 300mm prime with or without extender, depending on the aircraft. Now most of these filled the frame pretty much or at least more than 3/4 of the frame. Today I took my 100-400mm and even at 400mm, most aircraft were only 1/3 of the screen at most, sometimes even only 1/4. The Hurricane did do a few 'closer' passes which did surprise me but it was inconsistent, as mentioned. Of course, this is from a photographers point of view and to Joe Public, it doesn't make a difference to to them. But for photographers, of course it's going to push people in to 'other vantage spots' outside the airfield. I went today to assess whether I'll go again this year as I was really looking forward to the Navy Day and Military Pageant but I really am unsure whether I'll go now.

I left shortly after 5 and it has been a good day all round, as it always is at Shuttleworth. A bit of a queue getting in and out but only 10-15 mins or so. I was parked miles away though so it must have been busy - in fact, I couldn't find my bleedin' car when I was leaving, I was walking round like a tit in a trance trying to find it.
Ian Garfield Photography Website!

Flickr Photostream

I should probably be working. Will work for doughnuts.

User avatar
Petedcollins
Posts: 517
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 8:45 pm

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by Petedcollins »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:The only person with anything positive to say was a photographer with liveside access, which speaks volumes.


That wouldnt be the infamous ass that is Darren Harbar would it?

Guy wouldnt know what hit him unless it was with a blue grad filter lol

Flare Path
Posts: 3058
Joined: Wed 07 Dec 2011, 8:53 pm

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by Flare Path »

Ian G wrote:I went today to assess whether I'll go again this year as I was really looking forward to the Navy Day and Military Pageant but I really am unsure whether I'll go now.


Suppose that's one way of ruining the most anticipated show of the year. :wall:
Last edited by Flare Path on Sun 08 May 2016, 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
LN Strike Eagle
UKAR Staff
Posts: 10626
Joined: Mon 21 Jul 2008, 3:29 pm

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by LN Strike Eagle »

The most telling thing was to just look around - in a packed crowd, there were only ever a handful of lenses pointed skywards. Had numerous conversations with new and old faces from UKAR, and was collared by "general public" on a couple of occasions too. The most positive comment I heard all day was about the weather...

If that is the template, you can only view the shows as glorified "fly-ins" from now on. Is it worth £30 each time for ground shots though?
"You really are an oafish philistine at times!"

hmeasures
Posts: 655
Joined: Sun 23 Jun 2013, 1:27 pm

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by hmeasures »

Coming back from what looked to be an excellent show on paper left me a little disappointed, and my opinion is really it's not great - the displays I thought that were most effected by the higher separation distances were the displays which relied on the intimacy of the venue over impressive display sequences, such as the Lysander (good to see that back up), Gladiator and of course the training contingent - which despite the best effort of the pilots looked a bit lost. The Blenheim and Hurricane were OK I thought, not what we've come to expect from Old Warden but certainly not to turn ones nose up at.

I dunno. I think the Navy show might be saved only by the larger and more powerful types present which can have an impact at the larger distances.

At least the sun is still behind us :surrender:

AFC
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon 24 Aug 2015, 12:56 pm

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by AFC »

I must admit I was really impressed with the Red Arrows today and the Blenheim, they definitely saved the show for me.
Weather was perfect, but flying wasn't.
300mm lenses just aren't big enough any more.
No longer looking forward to the rest of the shows at Old Warden this year :sad:

User avatar
Ian G
UKAR Staff
Posts: 2059
Joined: Mon 01 Sep 2008, 6:21 pm
Location: Wolverhampton, West Midlands, UK
Contact:

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by Ian G »

The Lanc and Sally B will obviously make a difference when they show but as for the Navy day, judging by the types that should be present, it'll be at least 400mm focal length required. I hope they do some better displays than the P40, a bit underwhelmed by that as it was so distant.
Ian Garfield Photography Website!

Flickr Photostream

I should probably be working. Will work for doughnuts.

pb643
Posts: 873
Joined: Mon 01 Sep 2008, 7:31 am

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by pb643 »

I have had an enjoyable day, in my opinion the wind speed and direction was the biggest problem. I also felt that with so few aircraft using the main runway, it made it more difficult to judge the impact of the changes in display distance.

Far far away: P40, Lysander and Harvard. 4 trainer, Po2.

Further away/higher, but still ok: Blenheim , Hawker trio, early biplanes..

Close: Reds, Storch, aerobatic team (Extras & Cap)

I am not a seasoned Old Warden veteran, having only visited a couple of times before. I would say that there was an element of intimacy missing from today's display, compared with previous visits. The closeness of the display on other occasions meant that something that would have been completely lost in the sky at most other venues, just worked. I wonder if th displays may need modifying to fill the sky with more aircraft, if the days of filling the sky with a single aircraft have largely passed?

Phil

Timc
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat 13 Sep 2008, 6:32 pm
Location: Somewhere very close to Cosford!
Contact:

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by Timc »

Personally, didn't attend today's show but from the reports coming through on this thread it doesn't bode well for future events at OW?

If so, the intamacy and tradition of Shuttleworth has well and truely gone, consigned to history, such a shame.

User avatar
profile_M
Posts: 386
Joined: Wed 12 May 2010, 7:00 pm
Location: Cheltenham

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by profile_M »

First time at Old Warden for me and it was an enjoyable day. Having not been before I haven't experienced the venue prior to the changes but it felt just like any other show to me so that perhaps says it all. However, photography wise I had no issues. We were sat by the car in the 4th row of cars from the front (so maybe 50m back from the fence) and with a 500mm lens it was absolutely fine, a 400mm at the front should have surely been enough?
Airshow volunteer and barrier placement specialist

UKAirshowTour
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu 05 May 2016, 4:58 pm
Contact:

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by UKAirshowTour »

having been a attendee at old warden my whole life I can say today did feel very different but the display overall was still entertaining and very enjoyable. I'll be back later in the year for sure

User avatar
MUSTANG
Posts: 748
Joined: Mon 01 Sep 2008, 5:26 am
Contact:

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by MUSTANG »

I started near the front (by the bend) and 400m (on 1.6x) was not enough so god knows how people with full frames got on. I guess if you want an aircraft in 1/3 of the frame dead center you should do ok, but anything else you have to think again. I moved to just passed the control tower for aircraft using RWY12, sadly the Global Stars were parked in the only spot for aircraft taking-off down the hill. Also the other end by the entrance (coming through the grounds) has been fenced off as well...after 20 years of visiting OW the magic is fading.

I wonder how these rules will effect Little Gransden later in the year...

Peter

User avatar
Dan O'Hagan
Posts: 2293
Joined: Wed 13 Apr 2016, 6:05 pm

Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

MUSTANG wrote:I started near the front (by the bend) and 400m (on 1.6x) was not enough so god knows how people with full frames got on. I guess if you want an aircraft in 1/3 of the frame dead center you should do ok, but anything else you have to think again. I moved to just passed the control tower for aircraft using RWY12, sadly the Global Stars were parked in the only spot for aircraft taking-off down the hill. Also the other end by the entrance (coming through the grounds) has been fenced off as well...after 20 years of visiting OW the magic is fading.

I wonder how these rules will effect Little Gransden later in the year...

Peter


You must have been near us. We went up to that location having given up bothering shooting the flyers. Such a shame the aero spam was blocking the only decent spot left!

Post Reply