Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

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Tbolt
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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by Tbolt »

Flyforfun wrote:I don't get all this road closure nonsense at Old Warden , if you close a small country lane what happens with busy roads around Duxford ,Biggin Farnborough etc
No logic to it but when has the Caa ever used that !


Neither do I. The most dangerous phase of flight for an aircraft is landing (low airspeed close to the ground), yet they closed the road when they display was on. What happens the rest of the time at Old Warden when an aircraft is landing over the road?

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jalfrezi
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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by jalfrezi »

Tbolt wrote:
Flyforfun wrote:I don't get all this road closure nonsense at Old Warden , if you close a small country lane what happens with busy roads around Duxford ,Biggin Farnborough etc
No logic to it but when has the Caa ever used that !


Neither do I. The most dangerous phase of flight for an aircraft is landing (low airspeed close to the ground), yet they closed the road when they display was on. What happens the rest of the time at Old Warden when an aircraft is landing over the road?


I thought the Red Arrows requested the road closure?

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Tbolt
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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by Tbolt »

capercaillie wrote:I have to be honest, I don't think I've felt so deflated at an airshow after attending OW yesterday since 1987 when it rained all day at Binbrook.


These are pilots that have thrilled in the past at this venue, without danger to anyone inside or outside, by performing simple passes along the display line over the airfield and using the dogleg to maximum advantage. No risk, no dangerous aerobatics, just simply showing the aircraft to its best. Now neutered by a body that has pushed the display line to an area where the only fatal crash not involving aircrew in the UK in 63 years happened, people outside. The logic in this is just baffling. I would dearly like to hear someone from the body explain their justifications and where the benefit for moving the display line at OW comes in, why is this better? For who?



Well said.

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Tbolt
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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by Tbolt »

jalfrezi wrote:
Tbolt wrote:
Flyforfun wrote:I don't get all this road closure nonsense at Old Warden , if you close a small country lane what happens with busy roads around Duxford ,Biggin Farnborough etc
No logic to it but when has the Caa ever used that !


Neither do I. The most dangerous phase of flight for an aircraft is landing (low airspeed close to the ground), yet they closed the road when they display was on. What happens the rest of the time at Old Warden when an aircraft is landing over the road?


I thought the Red Arrows requested the road closure?


From what I understood the road was closed for the entire display - the Reds must have finished about 15:30 and the road didn't open till about 17:50 when the display finished.

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jalfrezi
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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by jalfrezi »

Tbolt wrote:From what I understood the road was closed for the entire display - the Reds must have finished about 15:30 and the road didn't open till about 17:50 when the display finished.


Yes, if that's the case I can't understand why it needed to be closed for the entire time either, unless their display slot was flexible? There was a post on this forum last week saying it was a Red Arrows request, unless my mind is playing tricks on me!!

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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by LN Strike Eagle »

jalfrezi wrote:
Tbolt wrote:From what I understood the road was closed for the entire display - the Reds must have finished about 15:30 and the road didn't open till about 17:50 when the display finished.


Yes, if that's the case I can't understand why it needed to be closed for the entire time either, unless their display slot was flexible? There was a post on this forum last week saying it was a Red Arrows request, unless my mind is playing tricks on me!!

That was the info we had - hence the sign boards saying the road would be closed "at some time between 1400-1800".
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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by King Cobra »

LN Strike Eagle wrote:
jalfrezi wrote:
Tbolt wrote:From what I understood the road was closed for the entire display - the Reds must have finished about 15:30 and the road didn't open till about 17:50 when the display finished.


Yes, if that's the case I can't understand why it needed to be closed for the entire time either, unless their display slot was flexible? There was a post on this forum last week saying it was a Red Arrows request, unless my mind is playing tricks on me!!

That was the info we had - hence the sign boards saying the road would be closed "at some time between 1400-1800".


On the day the times on the signs on the road coming from the A1 were 13:00 to 18:00.

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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by LN Strike Eagle »

Thanks. I couldn't remember the exact times.
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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by timuss »

The BBMF Dak went tech then???
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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by helired3 »

I am not to far from Shuttleworth and it was my fault - I left it too late to get a ticket. :wall: I was out shooting wildlife yesterday, but thought i would have a stroll down the footpath from Southill - this was closed (not like Duxford closed) - all cordoned off with a proper security guard that would not even let a local jogger go down the footpath.
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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by Thoughtful_Flyer »

helired3 wrote:i am not to far from shuttleworth and it was my fault i left it to late to get a ticket :wall: i was out shooting wildlife yesterday but thought i would have a stroll down the footpath from southill this was closed ( not like duxford closed ) all cordoned off with a proper security Gard that would not even let a local jogger go down the footpath.


What is a "proper security guard"?

Unless he is a Constable he has no more power than you or me!

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helired3
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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by helired3 »

Thoughtful_Flyer wrote:
helired3 wrote:i am not to far from shuttleworth and it was my fault i left it to late to get a ticket :wall: i was out shooting wildlife yesterday but thought i would have a stroll down the footpath from southill this was closed ( not like duxford closed ) all cordoned off with a proper security Gard that would not even let a local jogger go down the footpath.


What is a "proper security guard"?

Unless he is a Constable he has no more power than you or me!


Not like Duxford as in the one time I went to the naughty field, I was shown by the guard how to get to the mound. And yes, I understand his limited powers but you could not get to the footpath as it had been cordoned off with no way of getting past.
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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by jalfrezi »

helired3 wrote:
Thoughtful_Flyer wrote:
helired3 wrote:i am not to far from shuttleworth and it was my fault i left it to late to get a ticket :wall: i was out shooting wildlife yesterday but thought i would have a stroll down the footpath from southill this was closed ( not like duxford closed ) all cordoned off with a proper security Gard that would not even let a local jogger go down the footpath.


What is a "proper security guard"?

Unless he is a Constable he has no more power than you or me!


Not like Duxford as in the one time I went to the naughty field, I was shown by the guard how to get to the mound. And yes, I understand his limited powers but you could not get to the footpath as it had been cordoned off with no way of getting past.


I believe if he's acting on behalf on the landowner then reasonable force can be used to stop someone trespassing.

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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

He's just "some bloke" with an earpiece and dayglo tabard. No authority to lay hands on you whatsoever.

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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by jalfrezi »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:He's just "some bloke" with an earpiece and dayglo tabard. No authority to lay hands on you whatsoever.


If he's an agent of the landowner he can use reasonable force, if he's 'just some bloke' hired by Shuttleworth then you're right in that he has no authority.

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helired3
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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by helired3 »

i dont want to start a bun fight but Old Warden Park is as far as i know is about 4,000 acres so i would assume they own the land that the foot path is on ?
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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by Flyforfun »

Helired3 you shoot wildlife for pleasure ?

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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by rambo »

Flyforfun wrote:Helired3 you shoot wildlife for pleasure ?


Oh dear.....

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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by Tommy »

Tried to read all the comments on here, but I suspect my opinions have already been covered by everyone else above.

The case for me is this: If the CAA's regs can take even one iota of the magic from Shuttleworth, as they have done, then other small shows that are the bread and butter of this industry don't stand a chance. :down:

And take a look at this:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/airdisplays/status/729434677832986626[/tweet]

A world champion aerobatic pilot, flying one of the best aerobatic machines ever built, finding new display lines hard to fly. If world champion aerobatic pilots struggle with the new lines, then how on earth is that safer? In order to make things safer, display lines should be easy, common sense and flexible. A pilot should be worrying about flying the plane, and not about whether they're keeping to the rigid and needless set of rules set by the CAA.

In truth, though, I'd say to Shuttleworth, and to all display pilots putting up with this BS; hats off to them.

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helired3
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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by helired3 »

:lmao:
rambo wrote:
Flyforfun wrote:Helired3 you shoot wildlife for pleasure ?


Oh dear.....
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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by Flyforfun »

Lol that was funny ,its the way you tell em ..........

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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by Talldan76 »

Come's to something when a lens like this will be the new standard Airshow Lens...

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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by Flare Path »

Tommy wrote:Tried to read all the comments on here, but I suspect my opinions have already been covered by everyone else above.

The case for me is this: If the CAA's regs can take even one iota of the magic from Shuttleworth, as they have done, then other small shows that are the bread and butter of this industry don't stand a chance. :down:

And take a look at this:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/airdisplays/status/729434677832986626[/tweet]

A world champion aerobatic pilot, flying one of the best aerobatic machines ever built, finding new display lines hard to fly. If world champion aerobatic pilots struggle with the new lines, then how on earth is that safer? In order to make things safer, display lines should be easy, common sense and flexible. A pilot should be worrying about flying the plane, and not about whether they're keeping to the rigid and needless set of rules set by the CAA.

In truth, though, I'd say to Shuttleworth, and to all display pilots putting up with this BS; hats off to them.


I'm not surprised, mate - I was with a very well known display pilot over the weekend and he told me then Mark was concerned about these changes. And you know when Mark is finding it tough, something isn't right.

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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

So, a possible outcome of Shoreham could be that the demands of display flying were beyond that pilot's skill.

I know, said the CAA, let's make it even MORE difficult.

You really couldn't make this up, could you.

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Re: Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

Post by PirateTrickster »

Wow - what a load of naysayers.

Can I buck the trend and say myself and our whole group had a cracking time on Sunday. Whilst we may be considered "Joe Public" (I would prefer the term amateur aviation enthisiast myself), we all had a great time. Yes, none of us had attended a Shuttleworth display before, although I really enjoyed the 'village fete' feel.

The sunshine really helped and whilst most of you semi-pro photographers are moaning about being further away from the aircraft - the sunshine from mid-afternoon onwards was lighting up the topsides a treat. My and my 300mm lens got some pictures I'm really pleased with, certainly the best aviation pictures I've ever taken (OK, I've only had the DSLR for 2 airshows).

Thank you to all involved in organising the show, we will be back.

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